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Nobody comments on the 20 minutes waiting for the ambulance ? In a city ? In France, when I helped an old lady who had slipped on ice, the emergency services w

Nobody comments on the 20 minutes waiting for the ambulance ? In a city ? In France, when I helped an old lady who had slipped on ice, the emergency services were on site in less than 5 minutes, with all the competences and material to provide life saving interventions. And this was just normal. Why does it look normal in the US to have to wait 20 minutes after having called for a gunfire, and only for a transport ambulance ?

tschellenbach 5y ago
That's indeed a terrible response time
pylua 5y ago
I live in the Atlanta metropolitan area. When my son had his first seizure 911 did not even pick up. I know in our case, when an emergency happens, people panick, and keep trying to call 911; I have to wonder if that makes the phone lines backed up even more. They called back over 10 minutes later ( I believe; I don't recall the exact number of minutes ). Had to give up and get a neighbor to rush us to the hospital. As an American, it really does feel like the wheels are falling off of the bus so to speak.
Jolter 5y ago
I don’t have the facts but it would make some sense for emergency response medics to wait until Police have declared the area safe. Might have been a factor.
zh3 5y ago
Owner of a local (UK) Indian restaurant recently went home for a holiday. Came back in a neck brace with terrible bruising, so of course I asked him what happened, he said his car came off the road and rolled into a ditch. He was trapped and thought he would drown. Fortunately for him, lots of people came running and dragged the car (with him still inside) out of the ditch, got him to hospital. The kicker was he said (he's a quiet, older, straight talker) "Thank God it didn't happen in the UK, if it had I would be dead."
- ukindiamm 5y ago
  Strange. So that person claims that india, where according to his statement no emergency services rushed to his aid, is better than the uk? Why move to the uk then?
  - zh3 5y ago
    He's from Bangladesh, and he didn't say anything to me about emergency services (not sure where you got his statement from, possibly some news story I'm not aware of?).
- IshKebab 5y ago
  Why was that the kicker?
VBprogrammer 5y ago
It takes 5 minutes for the ambulance to arrive and 15 minutes to check that your insurance is gonna pay for it.
- kcplate 5y ago
  Sorry, but EMS doesn’t work this way.
  - VBprogrammer 5y ago
    Of course it doesn't. It was a joke.
    - kcplate 5y ago
      Considering all of the lovely armchair analysis and assumption from non us citizens about the US on this thread, I thought I would just state it so some random European HN reader doesn't make yet another incorrect assumption about the US from a stray comment. “Did you know that in the United States ambulances will not take you to the hospital unless you have insurance if you have an accident? OMG, yes! I read it on HN!”
      - VBprogrammer 5y ago
        It's not like there isn't a grain of truth in it though. You don't have to look far to find people in financial emergencies because the ambulance provider didn't take their insurance or to find people with significant injuries begging a friend to take them to the hospital rather than phoning an ambulance because they are uninsured. The US perverse infatuation with healthcare as a business is kind of horrifying to those non-US citizens. If poking fun at it is what it takes to effect change then hurrah for the power of humour!
        kcplate 5y ago
        > You don't have to look far to find people in financial emergencies because the ambulance provider didn't take their insurance or to find people with significant injuries begging a friend to take them to the hospital rather than phoning an ambulance because they are uninsured. That is a wholly different situation where the patient is making the decision because of a lack of insurance instead of the EMS provider. And…it’s generally because of ignorance that folks make that decision. They base it on rumor and assumption, where in many cases a simple phone call or two is all it takes to get those large charges decreased significantly. An ambulance provider has zero benefit to them in intentionally creating a bad debt account that will ultimately default.
lhorie 5y ago
According to this[0], average in US is 7 minutes, and this takes into account that rural response times are slower. [0] https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/response-time-emergency-medical-services/ https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/response-time-emergency-medi...
claytongulick 5y ago
Perhaps one of the reasons is that we pay EMTs $15/hr. I was talking to a couple of them in a bar the other day, who told me this. Told me about getting stabbed, attacked, shot and other stuff they have to deal with. For $15/hr. Both of them were looking for other jobs.
klyrs 5y ago
That's fast, right? In my experience, police and paramedics are quite slow in response to gunshots, with the exception of affluent neighborhoods.
- Anon1096 5y ago
  Brookhaven is quite affluent.
- jopython 5y ago
  Unless they are faster than the speed of sound.
Someone 5y ago
Suburb of a city. For France, I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_services_in_France#Operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_services_in_...: “Current response time targets are for the responder to arrive at the scene within 10 minutes for 80% of responses, and within 15 minutes for 95% of responses” Reading https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2643992 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstrac..., the USA is a bit worse (table 1 shows the 90th percentile to be at 14 minutes in the suburbs). I would guesstimate that’s at least partly because of lower population density. ⇒ 20 minutes could just be an outlier. It also could be that some neighborhoods get disproportionately many high end outliers or that those numbers changed since 2015 (that’s were the data in the 2017 paper is from), though.
throwaway5752 5y ago
Omicron is placing pressure on health and emergency services at every level. It has been widely reported: https://www.ajc.com/news/investigations/georgia-ems-crews-near-breaking-point/P2XNCLCVXRBERD4HMITNYRYKXA/ https://www.ajc.com/news/investigations/georgia-ems-crews-ne.... It is not normal, but EMS staff are under higher workloads (daily hospitalizations are near all time highs https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/#hospitalizationchart https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard...) while dealing with increased attrition and sick leave.
hiptobecubic 5y ago
And here I thought 20 minutes was pretty good. US healthcare is a mess.
davidjytang 5y ago
I was one time an interpreter for Seattle fire dept and went on calls in an ambulance. Between the moment we got call and arrival, it was like around 6 minutes and 5 other cars arrived at the same location. IIRC Seattle emergency med service renders the highest out of the hospital survival rate in the States. I would imagine the time to respond would vary widly by location, especially with covid raging.

tschellenbach 5y ago

That's indeed a terrible response time

pylua 5y ago

I live in the Atlanta metropolitan area. When my son had his first seizure 911 did not even pick up. I know in our case, when an emergency happens, people panick, and keep trying to call 911; I have to wonder if that makes the phone lines backed up even more. They called back over 10 minutes later ( I believe; I don't recall the exact number of minutes ). Had to give up and get a neighbor to rush us to the hospital. As an American, it really does feel like the wheels are falling off of the bus so to speak.

Jolter 5y ago

I don’t have the facts but it would make some sense for emergency response medics to wait until Police have declared the area safe. Might have been a factor.

zh3 5y ago

Owner of a local (UK) Indian restaurant recently went home for a holiday. Came back in a neck brace with terrible bruising, so of course I asked him what happened, he said his car came off the road and rolled into a ditch. He was trapped and thought he would drown. Fortunately for him, lots of people came running and dragged the car (with him still inside) out of the ditch, got him to hospital. The kicker was he said (he's a quiet, older, straight talker) "Thank God it didn't happen in the UK, if it had I would be dead."

ukindiamm 5y ago
Strange. So that person claims that india, where according to his statement no emergency services rushed to his aid, is better than the uk? Why move to the uk then?
- zh3 5y ago
  He's from Bangladesh, and he didn't say anything to me about emergency services (not sure where you got his statement from, possibly some news story I'm not aware of?).
IshKebab 5y ago
Why was that the kicker?

VBprogrammer 5y ago

It takes 5 minutes for the ambulance to arrive and 15 minutes to check that your insurance is gonna pay for it.

kcplate 5y ago
Sorry, but EMS doesn’t work this way.
- VBprogrammer 5y ago
  Of course it doesn't. It was a joke.
  - kcplate 5y ago
    Considering all of the lovely armchair analysis and assumption from non us citizens about the US on this thread, I thought I would just state it so some random European HN reader doesn't make yet another incorrect assumption about the US from a stray comment. “Did you know that in the United States ambulances will not take you to the hospital unless you have insurance if you have an accident? OMG, yes! I read it on HN!”
    - VBprogrammer 5y ago
      It's not like there isn't a grain of truth in it though. You don't have to look far to find people in financial emergencies because the ambulance provider didn't take their insurance or to find people with significant injuries begging a friend to take them to the hospital rather than phoning an ambulance because they are uninsured. The US perverse infatuation with healthcare as a business is kind of horrifying to those non-US citizens. If poking fun at it is what it takes to effect change then hurrah for the power of humour!
      - kcplate 5y ago
        > You don't have to look far to find people in financial emergencies because the ambulance provider didn't take their insurance or to find people with significant injuries begging a friend to take them to the hospital rather than phoning an ambulance because they are uninsured. That is a wholly different situation where the patient is making the decision because of a lack of insurance instead of the EMS provider. And…it’s generally because of ignorance that folks make that decision. They base it on rumor and assumption, where in many cases a simple phone call or two is all it takes to get those large charges decreased significantly. An ambulance provider has zero benefit to them in intentionally creating a bad debt account that will ultimately default.

lhorie 5y ago

According to this[0], average in US is 7 minutes, and this takes into account that rural response times are slower. [0] https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/response-time-emergency-medical-services/ https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/response-time-emergency-medi...

claytongulick 5y ago

Perhaps one of the reasons is that we pay EMTs $15/hr. I was talking to a couple of them in a bar the other day, who told me this. Told me about getting stabbed, attacked, shot and other stuff they have to deal with. For $15/hr. Both of them were looking for other jobs.

klyrs 5y ago

That's fast, right? In my experience, police and paramedics are quite slow in response to gunshots, with the exception of affluent neighborhoods.

Anon1096 5y ago
Brookhaven is quite affluent.
jopython 5y ago
Unless they are faster than the speed of sound.

Someone 5y ago

Suburb of a city. For France, I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_services_in_France#Operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_services_in_...: “Current response time targets are for the responder to arrive at the scene within 10 minutes for 80% of responses, and within 15 minutes for 95% of responses” Reading https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2643992 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstrac..., the USA is a bit worse (table 1 shows the 90th percentile to be at 14 minutes in the suburbs). I would guesstimate that’s at least partly because of lower population density. ⇒ 20 minutes could just be an outlier. It also could be that some neighborhoods get disproportionately many high end outliers or that those numbers changed since 2015 (that’s were the data in the 2017 paper is from), though.

throwaway5752 5y ago

Omicron is placing pressure on health and emergency services at every level. It has been widely reported: https://www.ajc.com/news/investigations/georgia-ems-crews-near-breaking-point/P2XNCLCVXRBERD4HMITNYRYKXA/ https://www.ajc.com/news/investigations/georgia-ems-crews-ne.... It is not normal, but EMS staff are under higher workloads (daily hospitalizations are near all time highs https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard/jvoLBozRtBSVSNQDDAuZxH/#hospitalizationchart https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus-georgia-covid-dashboard...) while dealing with increased attrition and sick leave.

hiptobecubic 5y ago

And here I thought 20 minutes was pretty good. US healthcare is a mess.

davidjytang 5y ago

I was one time an interpreter for Seattle fire dept and went on calls in an ambulance. Between the moment we got call and arrival, it was like around 6 minutes and 5 other cars arrived at the same location. IIRC Seattle emergency med service renders the highest out of the hospital survival rate in the States. I would imagine the time to respond would vary widly by location, especially with covid raging.