3 ms·

> It seems pretty clear cut to me that if your company hasn't been found guilty of discrimination in the past, then it's illegal for the company to institute "a

by mrkurt 5y ago

> It seems pretty clear cut to me that if your company hasn't been found guilty of discrimination in the past, then it's illegal for the company to institute "affirmative action." That's not what United Steelworkers v. Weber established though. The supreme court said: > An affirmative action plan has to be (1) necessary (2) aiming to correct a statistical imbalance (3) not result in an absolute bar to hiring non-minorities (4) temporary, with an end date or goal (5) allow flexibility for hiring non-minorities. There's no bar for "has been found guilty in the past".

lolinder 5y ago
You're right, but point 3 means that even under United Steelworkers v. Weber the policy in the original question may be illegal. "Must be female" is an instruction to bar the non-minority completely from this position, so as another comment says it depends on if that bar on complete bars applies to individual positions or whole departments.
- lokar 5y ago
  Consider you are going to hire 10 mid-career SWEs this year (as a generic pool) and you set aside 2 slots for females, because the current org of 50 is all male.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    Yeah, this is why I think it would be irresponsible to comment on the legality of OP's org's policy. We simply don't have enough info about the wider picture.
raxxorrax 5y ago
It is a very stupid judgement as it is. What does statistical imbalance even mean? If you look at the pipeline of computer science the trend is pretty obvious. Same with construction workers really. Meanwhile there are no such rules for teaching which slowly becomes more and more female dominated. A purely statistical analysis might work for jobs that require no qualification at all with severe caveats at least as a lot of them have a skewed gender ratio. A state should focus on real discrimination. By creating whole bureaucracies around this topic you have created a class of unproductive people that will mainly be driven by self-preservation of their job. You need a bureaucracy to ensure that rules are followed to ensure accessibility for example. But racial and sex quotas should surpass their mandate. Additionally people in public service rarely have an understanding about competition in the labour market. The mechanisms that pit people against each other by skin color seem to completely elude them. For them it is a matter of representation as if they are dealing with 8 year olds. And even those have a more differentiated view.

by mrkurt 5y ago

lolinder 5y ago

You're right, but point 3 means that even under United Steelworkers v. Weber the policy in the original question may be illegal. "Must be female" is an instruction to bar the non-minority completely from this position, so as another comment says it depends on if that bar on complete bars applies to individual positions or whole departments.

lokar 5y ago
Consider you are going to hire 10 mid-career SWEs this year (as a generic pool) and you set aside 2 slots for females, because the current org of 50 is all male.
- lolinder 5y ago
  Yeah, this is why I think it would be irresponsible to comment on the legality of OP's org's policy. We simply don't have enough info about the wider picture.

raxxorrax 5y ago

It is a very stupid judgement as it is. What does statistical imbalance even mean? If you look at the pipeline of computer science the trend is pretty obvious. Same with construction workers really. Meanwhile there are no such rules for teaching which slowly becomes more and more female dominated. A purely statistical analysis might work for jobs that require no qualification at all with severe caveats at least as a lot of them have a skewed gender ratio. A state should focus on real discrimination. By creating whole bureaucracies around this topic you have created a class of unproductive people that will mainly be driven by self-preservation of their job. You need a bureaucracy to ensure that rules are followed to ensure accessibility for example. But racial and sex quotas should surpass their mandate. Additionally people in public service rarely have an understanding about competition in the labour market. The mechanisms that pit people against each other by skin color seem to completely elude them. For them it is a matter of representation as if they are dealing with 8 year olds. And even those have a more differentiated view.