3 ms·

The current Covid vaccines are reasonably effective at protecting the person being vaccinated from dying, but that makes a really poor basis for a mandate - the

by makomk 5y ago

The current Covid vaccines are reasonably effective at protecting the person being vaccinated from dying, but that makes a really poor basis for a mandate - the idea that everyone is obligated to minimise their personal risk of dying only exists in dystopian fiction. Instead, the push for vaccine mandates is based on partisan lies about how vaccinated people don't spread Covid, how it could all be over now and we could have herd immunity if it wasn't for the evil people not getting vaccinated, how all the anti-vaxers in the US are the partisan opponents of the current leader and it's the previous president's fault for not supporting vaccines (when we all saw the same people attacking Trump for pushing for vaccines), and so on.

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
Ireland has a 96% vaccination rate amongst adults and about 75% boosted. Yesterday, the government removed all social distancing and hospitality restrictions. It's not purely because of the vaccines but they are a major factor. The risk of deaths and hospitalisations overwhelming the health services have been the primary driver of restrictions and vaccines help massively in preventing this.
manuelabeledo 5y ago
But vaccines do lower transmission rates. That’s not a lie.
- makomk 5y ago
  Not by enough to stop pretty much the entire population being infected, which makes it a very questionable benefit. Mostly they just spread out the period over which everyon gets infected and that has some obvious downsides itself - the effectiveness of the vaccines against both infection and death declines rather too quickly, meaning that delaying infections can in theory lead to more deaths. As I understand it slower spread should make it easier for more infectious and vaccine-evading variants to evolve too since each intermediate step in their evolution has more of a chance to get established and outcompete the existing variant, but vaccination is still sold as a solution to the problem of new variants as well.
  - manuelabeledo 5y ago
    So what’s the alternative, then? COVID infections don’t lead to immunity, in fact antibodies fade rather quickly.
Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago
But everyone is obligated to minimize their risk of dying in most companies! You don't see people expressing their freedom to do as they please when working with high voltage equipment, chemicals, or anything remotely hazardous. Even when it's only themselves who'd be affected.

by makomk 5y ago

disgruntledphd2 5y ago

Ireland has a 96% vaccination rate amongst adults and about 75% boosted. Yesterday, the government removed all social distancing and hospitality restrictions. It's not purely because of the vaccines but they are a major factor. The risk of deaths and hospitalisations overwhelming the health services have been the primary driver of restrictions and vaccines help massively in preventing this.

manuelabeledo 5y ago

But vaccines do lower transmission rates. That’s not a lie.

makomk 5y ago
Not by enough to stop pretty much the entire population being infected, which makes it a very questionable benefit. Mostly they just spread out the period over which everyon gets infected and that has some obvious downsides itself - the effectiveness of the vaccines against both infection and death declines rather too quickly, meaning that delaying infections can in theory lead to more deaths. As I understand it slower spread should make it easier for more infectious and vaccine-evading variants to evolve too since each intermediate step in their evolution has more of a chance to get established and outcompete the existing variant, but vaccination is still sold as a solution to the problem of new variants as well.
- manuelabeledo 5y ago
  So what’s the alternative, then? COVID infections don’t lead to immunity, in fact antibodies fade rather quickly.

Simon_O_Rourke 5y ago

But everyone is obligated to minimize their risk of dying in most companies! You don't see people expressing their freedom to do as they please when working with high voltage equipment, chemicals, or anything remotely hazardous. Even when it's only themselves who'd be affected.