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What utter nonsense from the Economist. Can't believe I used to read it nearly religiously back in college. Having this stance gets me a lot of flak from my li

What utter nonsense from the Economist. Can't believe I used to read it nearly religiously back in college. Having this stance gets me a lot of flak from my liberal-leaning friends but here goes: What kind of cognitive dissonance does it take to look at the graph where there are now 3x times more kids born out of wedlock, and try to spin something positive out of it, like "no fault divorce policies makes the situation suck slightly less during the divorce proceedings" This is a complete disaster not only for the children, who are now falling behind peers in nuclear households, but for society as a whole as well, since it teaches people that nothing is ever their fault, including important commitments like creating a family unit and raising a child in a complex world. If you're going to sing praises to cooperation and mediation, how about you try to get people to do that during marriage? You know, to reconcile their differences and stay together for the sake of raising a well-adapted future member of society. Honestly, no matter how you look at it, divorce is overall net-negative and usually a negative for most parties, except one (usually, the lawyers) Is it any wonder that Asians excel in western society, coming from a cultural norm of keeping the family together at all costs?

rupi 5y ago
You must be in the US. In certain parts of Europe, it is becoming very common for couples to not get "married" but still form a nuclear family and from what I have seen, a lot of them are doing a lot better than some of my married friends. Also, if you had spent any time in Asia, you wouldn't be singing the praises of the cultural norm of keeping the family together. Growing up, I saw a lot of cases of frequent abuse (even beatings) but the woman was supposed to keep the family together. Did you know divorce is not allowed in Philippines, please read about the impact that has. Asians in the US typically are better educated and education has more to do with lower divorce rates than an ethnicity. edit: this is coming from a married person, in the US
- moduspol 5y ago
  > education has more to do with lower divorce rates than an ethnicity. Perhaps, but correlation doesn't imply causation. It seems at least as plausible that the kind of people able to commit to higher education are more capable of committing to marriage. Or that lower divorce rates result in better outcomes for children, including those children getting more educated. Neither imply that education itself leads to lower divorce rates. I'm also not sure how to reasonably discuss this, but there is a colossal gray area between "drive-through divorce" and "women must legally stay married to husbands who beat them." We should be able to acknowledge positive results of some cultural norms without presuming they are intrinsically linked to the worst edge cases.
chii 5y ago
> If you're going to sing praises to cooperation and mediation, how about you try to get people to do that during marriage? a lot of people in the western society have come to the conclusion that individual happiness (ala, their own) is paramount, to the point where commitments which they no longer want to honour is acceptable to not honour (such as marriage). It is rooted in the same psychological base, imho, as individual action over collective action. Divorce is an individual action, to make their own wellbeing better (e.g., they can no longer stand their partner). They are not able to suck it up for the sake of children (at least, until they are of age to leave the household). I think the recent protesting about health mandates all across "the west" is an allusion to this phenomenon - the age of "me, me, me".
atq2119 5y ago
> If you're going to sing praises to cooperation and mediation, how about you try to get people to do that during marriage? What makes you think that people don't do that? I would imagine that most people don't divorce for fun but because it's the best of all the sucky remaining options.

rupi 5y ago

You must be in the US. In certain parts of Europe, it is becoming very common for couples to not get "married" but still form a nuclear family and from what I have seen, a lot of them are doing a lot better than some of my married friends. Also, if you had spent any time in Asia, you wouldn't be singing the praises of the cultural norm of keeping the family together. Growing up, I saw a lot of cases of frequent abuse (even beatings) but the woman was supposed to keep the family together. Did you know divorce is not allowed in Philippines, please read about the impact that has. Asians in the US typically are better educated and education has more to do with lower divorce rates than an ethnicity. edit: this is coming from a married person, in the US

moduspol 5y ago
> education has more to do with lower divorce rates than an ethnicity. Perhaps, but correlation doesn't imply causation. It seems at least as plausible that the kind of people able to commit to higher education are more capable of committing to marriage. Or that lower divorce rates result in better outcomes for children, including those children getting more educated. Neither imply that education itself leads to lower divorce rates. I'm also not sure how to reasonably discuss this, but there is a colossal gray area between "drive-through divorce" and "women must legally stay married to husbands who beat them." We should be able to acknowledge positive results of some cultural norms without presuming they are intrinsically linked to the worst edge cases.

chii 5y ago

> If you're going to sing praises to cooperation and mediation, how about you try to get people to do that during marriage? a lot of people in the western society have come to the conclusion that individual happiness (ala, their own) is paramount, to the point where commitments which they no longer want to honour is acceptable to not honour (such as marriage). It is rooted in the same psychological base, imho, as individual action over collective action. Divorce is an individual action, to make their own wellbeing better (e.g., they can no longer stand their partner). They are not able to suck it up for the sake of children (at least, until they are of age to leave the household). I think the recent protesting about health mandates all across "the west" is an allusion to this phenomenon - the age of "me, me, me".

atq2119 5y ago

> If you're going to sing praises to cooperation and mediation, how about you try to get people to do that during marriage? What makes you think that people don't do that? I would imagine that most people don't divorce for fun but because it's the best of all the sucky remaining options.