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The cost-benefit of vaccination doesn’t always favor vaccination, which is why we mandate the polio vaccine but not the dengue fever vaccine, because the latter

The cost-benefit of vaccination doesn’t always favor vaccination, which is why we mandate the polio vaccine but not the dengue fever vaccine, because the latter comes with attendant risks relative to the potential benefit. As far as the evolving science on what has to happen, well, it’s a rapidly changing situation. If someone had said at the start of the vaccine schedule, “hey, there’s going to be an incredibly infectious strain in late 2021 that will render vaccines much less effective”, maybe they would have mandated three shots up front. But they didn’t know that, and so when the first round of vaccine trial results came back with a 90%+ efficacy rates, I remember there were people arguing that those numbers were TOO effective, and we should reduce the volume of the second dose or remove it entirely in order to vaccinate more people. Good thing we didn’t do that. As far as the whatabouts - great, yes, therapeutics are great. More therapeutics. But focusing on omicron’s reduced level of severe cases misses the point of vaccination, which is that we don’t only vaccinate for ourselves, we do it to try to reduce spread in the community. We vaccinate to try to make it less likely that new variants that are better at escaping immune response arise. Maybe if everyone had embraced vaccination we wouldn’t be close to 2k dead/day.

ls15 5y ago
> As far as the evolving science on what has to happen, well, it’s a rapidly changing situation. If someone had said at the start of the vaccine schedule, “hey, there’s going to be an incredibly infectious strain in late 2021 that will render vaccines much less effective”, maybe they would have mandated three shots up front. But they didn’t know that, and so when the first round of vaccine trial results came back with a 90%+ efficacy rates, I remember there were people arguing that those numbers were TOO effective, and we should reduce the volume of the second dose or remove it entirely in order to vaccinate more people. Good thing we didn’t do that. But then governments and businesses started to mandate the vaccines, even though they had no clear vision of the future, while there already were signs of lowered efficacy and side effects. It's all cool as long as it is voluntary with a focus on risk/benefit ratios, but as of now, people are demonizing others who want to wait for a clearer picture. Since all that new science regarding efficacy, side effects and natural immunization is bubbling up now, I am sure that anyone who tried to force the vaccine on others will be deemed pretty reckless soon. Who would support Rwanda-style forced vaccinations for example? https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-against-covid-victims-say/a-60413978 https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-aga...
nradov 5y ago
I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but there is no reliable evidence that will make it less likely for new variants to arise. The current thinking is that variants are most likely to evolve in immunocompromised patients who experience prolonged infections. Vaccination is less effective for patients with defective immune systems. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma...
- mattzito 5y ago
  Increasing vaccination in the population overall reduces the velocity of spread and reduces the likelihood that an immunocompromised person will have the opportunity to have one of those long-term infections that create variants. It also gives the world time to create therapeutics that might be able to treat immunocompromised individuals with Covid and do the same. It’s not only about individual protection.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Pretty much everyone will be exposed soon regardless of what we do. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
    - mattzito 5y ago
      “ Over the next decade, give or take a few years, every single person on earth has a date with this virus. We will all be exposed, and the virus might replicate in some of our respiratory mucosa.” Exposed, not infected, though even if they did say infected, a 10 year timespan is better than a 2 year timespan.

ls15 5y ago

> As far as the evolving science on what has to happen, well, it’s a rapidly changing situation. If someone had said at the start of the vaccine schedule, “hey, there’s going to be an incredibly infectious strain in late 2021 that will render vaccines much less effective”, maybe they would have mandated three shots up front. But they didn’t know that, and so when the first round of vaccine trial results came back with a 90%+ efficacy rates, I remember there were people arguing that those numbers were TOO effective, and we should reduce the volume of the second dose or remove it entirely in order to vaccinate more people. Good thing we didn’t do that. But then governments and businesses started to mandate the vaccines, even though they had no clear vision of the future, while there already were signs of lowered efficacy and side effects. It's all cool as long as it is voluntary with a focus on risk/benefit ratios, but as of now, people are demonizing others who want to wait for a clearer picture. Since all that new science regarding efficacy, side effects and natural immunization is bubbling up now, I am sure that anyone who tried to force the vaccine on others will be deemed pretty reckless soon. Who would support Rwanda-style forced vaccinations for example? https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-against-covid-victims-say/a-60413978 https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-aga...

nradov 5y ago

I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but there is no reliable evidence that will make it less likely for new variants to arise. The current thinking is that variants are most likely to evolve in immunocompromised patients who experience prolonged infections. Vaccination is less effective for patients with defective immune systems. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma...

mattzito 5y ago
Increasing vaccination in the population overall reduces the velocity of spread and reduces the likelihood that an immunocompromised person will have the opportunity to have one of those long-term infections that create variants. It also gives the world time to create therapeutics that might be able to treat immunocompromised individuals with Covid and do the same. It’s not only about individual protection.
- nradov 5y ago
  Pretty much everyone will be exposed soon regardless of what we do. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
  - mattzito 5y ago
    “ Over the next decade, give or take a few years, every single person on earth has a date with this virus. We will all be exposed, and the virus might replicate in some of our respiratory mucosa.” Exposed, not infected, though even if they did say infected, a 10 year timespan is better than a 2 year timespan.