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> It's not going to stain your CV. Not with that attitude. I refuse to hire anyone with FAANG on their resume and you can all do it too. Most of you on here a

by zionic 5y ago

> It's not going to stain your CV. Not with that attitude. I refuse to hire anyone with FAANG on their resume and you can all do it too. Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes, and I’d love for more of you to join me. To the rest of you: Sure, take that $300k total comp bro. Good luck working outside SV. Better be worth it.

hungryhobo 5y ago
Dude you just sound salty at this point...
- zionic 5y ago
  What do I have to be salty about? I’m honestly a very happy person. I’ve found some incredible people that fulfill me, and that’s freed me. I used to be afraid of what people would think if I said what I felt. Now I can say what I believe with little consequence and to be honest? Not going back.
  - dnissley 5y ago
    I think it's worth reflecting on the fact that you took time out of your happy life to leave your original comment, which declared that you will use whatever small amount of professional power you have to enforce your personal grudge against a small set of companies you hate by refusing to hire their former workers. Edit: Just realized you've left like 20 comments on this thread that are all grinding the same axe.
    - zionic 5y ago
      Sure. It was very low cost. Much in the same way discriminating against FAANG employees is a low cost high efficiency strategy.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - anonred 5y ago
    There’s an art to conveying a position on a topic without alienating one’s audience.
    - zionic 5y ago
      Sure. I admit I’m not artful on this subject. But I am honest.
sockgrant 5y ago
Hi, I’ve worked for two of FAANG, it’s super duper easy to work outside of SV. The reason you sound salty is because you evaluate candidates based on whatever perception you have about who they are instead of trying to understand who they are. I’m sure you don’t care, sounds like it’s working for you, so in any event congrats on finding what makes you happy!
- patja 5y ago
  I firmly believe that actions speak louder than words. People will say all kinds of things to project an impression, and then you see what they actually do or did, and sometimes it's quite surprising with the inconsistency.
- zionic 5y ago
  > The reason you sound salty is because you evaluate candidates based on whatever perception you have No, I’m making very real concrete moral judgements about you based on who you chose to associate with.
  - epgui 5y ago
    Ah, yes, the “guilt by association fallacy”.
  - poopypoopington 5y ago
    I assume you live in the United States. By your logic, you are complicit with the genocide of Native Americans and the enslavement of peoples from Africa then. How do you live with yourself?
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Shall we also start making moral judgements about the city or country you live/lived in? The products you choose to purchase? The schools you chose to attend? The political party you choose to support? The religion you are or aren’t a part of? The sports teams you support? Shall we look down on NASA engineers because it’s part of the US government and pulls heavily from the US military/has overlap with the intelligence services/some of its top secret projects maybe do things I’m morally opposed about? This kind of guilt by association is pretty bad and that’s the pushback you’re seeing in this thread. Humans are social animals. No social group will be without it’s flaw and larger groups have more and larger problems. This same line of reasoning is what fuels religious and political persecution. It’s barely acceptable in sports but that’s because it’s mostly harmless and in good fun until you hit riot levels of idiocy. Heck, the big tech companies are massive. They have so many individual teams that do totally unrelated stuff to the things you might have issues with. As for the bitterness someone else noted, it’s not that you stated your values. You went further and made the claim that these engineers would have trouble finding jobs outside of SV because of the association. That part is blatantly false on its face. They may have trouble because of niche skills that aren’t relevant elsewhere because the scale doesn’t exist elsewhere. Are there some employers who won’t hire us because of our association with some company? Sure. So? I’ll not choose companies for myriad of arbitrary reasons too. That doesn’t mean I’ll struggle to find a job overall. As an aside, I find it a bit telling that you lump Netflix into it and then your primary complaint about the company was that they canceled a show you are attached to. That’s not even about morals and is fairly arbitrary. This is why there’s feedback that it looks like you’re salty about something unrelated and note you’ve attached a larger reason behind it based on morals.
refurb 5y ago
Ok, so one employer won’t hire me. I’ll just have to go with one of the other tens of thousands.
- zionic 5y ago
  You do you, and I wish you all the best. Doesn’t change what I do however. You can also just remove FAANG from your CV.
russelldjimmy 5y ago
It’s one thing to state your values and non-negotiables, and it’s another to seem arrogant and sanctimonious about it. To me, your comment appears to be firmly in the latter. If that truly is the case, hope you figure out what you are resentful about because, unbeknownst to you, it is alienating those who see such language. I agree with your values but I would still think twice about working with you based on the comments in your history.
- zionic 5y ago
  > to seem arrogant and sanctimonious about it. I’m firm, firm in my belief that the people who have chosen of their own free will to work for FAANG have made moral compromises that disqualify them from my employment. I don’t get how this is “sanctimonious”. These people have made some absolutely terrible life choices, and alienation is a part of the consequence package that comes with those life choices.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Why FAANG specifically? For instance, how does Apple fail ethically, in your view, compared to the others? Are there any other companies- Microsoft, Uber, Twitter and so forth you would also have a problem with?
  - VirusNewbie 5y ago
    You think netflix is a moral compromise? What about the US government?
    - zionic 5y ago
      Netflix was pretty neutral until about 4 years ago. Their leadership jumped the shark and the entire platform has been trash since. Side personal note: Fuck you guys for getting rid of stargate.
      - iliekcomputers 5y ago
        How is the platform being trash (also arguable) related to employee's moral compromises?
throwawai2021 5y ago
Total comp at FAANG for a senior engineer who's been there a few years is more like $800k+.
- zionic 5y ago
  If true, that just makes it worse in my opinion. Although maybe it’s evidence in my favor? They have to pay people that much to keep doing what they know is wrong…
  - vlovich123 5y ago
    Or the job is grueling and requires more time commitment/energy. Or it’s a very niche technical problem. Or the person has an outsized impact on the company in other ways like bringing prestige and making it easier to hire more people. There’s lots of reasons people get paid large sums.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      Or simply tech stocks have been crazy thanks to Federal Reserve interest rate policies.
- loeg 5y ago
  That’s really only L6+ with some good stock growth. Most senior eng are L5. 350-500k is still a lot.
avalys 5y ago
I would have more respect for this comment (and your entire crusade in this thread) if you were complaining about Facebook for political reasons. I would disagree with you, but, I couuld understand your perspective. But, all FAANG, really? What business are you in that's so noble by comparison?
hiq 5y ago
> Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. Some big companies are also big FOSS contributors. Some people even join these companies to do mostly FOSS (like Golang, AOSP, React, VSC). So if there's a contradiction there, I don't think it's that obvious for everyone. > I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes Actually this might be a good strategy if you have too many applicants and you pay closer to the median of the market rather than the top 10%, since such applicants are less likely to accept your offer. So better stop the process early.
throwaway1269 5y ago
kooshball 5y ago
truly one of the most delusional comment of all time on hn.
chillage 5y ago
Hey. I've never worked for a FAANG, but I am considering joining Facebook. They way I see it, Facebook is hugely impactful and there is real work to do there, ex: flagging disinformation, flagging external government influences, etc. It's challenging and extremely valuable work. If everyone who works at Facebook is blacklisted by people like you, it would just make the company a worse influence on the world because there would be noone left there to make it better. So I would prefer if good people had the freedom to try to make an impact according to their will without fear that people such as yourself will then work hard to tarnish their reputations. Thanks!

by zionic 5y ago

hungryhobo 5y ago

Dude you just sound salty at this point...

zionic 5y ago
What do I have to be salty about? I’m honestly a very happy person. I’ve found some incredible people that fulfill me, and that’s freed me. I used to be afraid of what people would think if I said what I felt. Now I can say what I believe with little consequence and to be honest? Not going back.
- dnissley 5y ago
  I think it's worth reflecting on the fact that you took time out of your happy life to leave your original comment, which declared that you will use whatever small amount of professional power you have to enforce your personal grudge against a small set of companies you hate by refusing to hire their former workers. Edit: Just realized you've left like 20 comments on this thread that are all grinding the same axe.
  - zionic 5y ago
    Sure. It was very low cost. Much in the same way discriminating against FAANG employees is a low cost high efficiency strategy.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- anonred 5y ago
  There’s an art to conveying a position on a topic without alienating one’s audience.
  - zionic 5y ago
    Sure. I admit I’m not artful on this subject. But I am honest.

sockgrant 5y ago

Hi, I’ve worked for two of FAANG, it’s super duper easy to work outside of SV. The reason you sound salty is because you evaluate candidates based on whatever perception you have about who they are instead of trying to understand who they are. I’m sure you don’t care, sounds like it’s working for you, so in any event congrats on finding what makes you happy!

patja 5y ago
I firmly believe that actions speak louder than words. People will say all kinds of things to project an impression, and then you see what they actually do or did, and sometimes it's quite surprising with the inconsistency.
zionic 5y ago
> The reason you sound salty is because you evaluate candidates based on whatever perception you have No, I’m making very real concrete moral judgements about you based on who you chose to associate with.
- epgui 5y ago
  Ah, yes, the “guilt by association fallacy”.
- poopypoopington 5y ago
  I assume you live in the United States. By your logic, you are complicit with the genocide of Native Americans and the enslavement of peoples from Africa then. How do you live with yourself?
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Shall we also start making moral judgements about the city or country you live/lived in? The products you choose to purchase? The schools you chose to attend? The political party you choose to support? The religion you are or aren’t a part of? The sports teams you support? Shall we look down on NASA engineers because it’s part of the US government and pulls heavily from the US military/has overlap with the intelligence services/some of its top secret projects maybe do things I’m morally opposed about? This kind of guilt by association is pretty bad and that’s the pushback you’re seeing in this thread. Humans are social animals. No social group will be without it’s flaw and larger groups have more and larger problems. This same line of reasoning is what fuels religious and political persecution. It’s barely acceptable in sports but that’s because it’s mostly harmless and in good fun until you hit riot levels of idiocy. Heck, the big tech companies are massive. They have so many individual teams that do totally unrelated stuff to the things you might have issues with. As for the bitterness someone else noted, it’s not that you stated your values. You went further and made the claim that these engineers would have trouble finding jobs outside of SV because of the association. That part is blatantly false on its face. They may have trouble because of niche skills that aren’t relevant elsewhere because the scale doesn’t exist elsewhere. Are there some employers who won’t hire us because of our association with some company? Sure. So? I’ll not choose companies for myriad of arbitrary reasons too. That doesn’t mean I’ll struggle to find a job overall. As an aside, I find it a bit telling that you lump Netflix into it and then your primary complaint about the company was that they canceled a show you are attached to. That’s not even about morals and is fairly arbitrary. This is why there’s feedback that it looks like you’re salty about something unrelated and note you’ve attached a larger reason behind it based on morals.

refurb 5y ago

Ok, so one employer won’t hire me. I’ll just have to go with one of the other tens of thousands.

zionic 5y ago
You do you, and I wish you all the best. Doesn’t change what I do however. You can also just remove FAANG from your CV.

russelldjimmy 5y ago

It’s one thing to state your values and non-negotiables, and it’s another to seem arrogant and sanctimonious about it. To me, your comment appears to be firmly in the latter. If that truly is the case, hope you figure out what you are resentful about because, unbeknownst to you, it is alienating those who see such language. I agree with your values but I would still think twice about working with you based on the comments in your history.

zionic 5y ago
> to seem arrogant and sanctimonious about it. I’m firm, firm in my belief that the people who have chosen of their own free will to work for FAANG have made moral compromises that disqualify them from my employment. I don’t get how this is “sanctimonious”. These people have made some absolutely terrible life choices, and alienation is a part of the consequence package that comes with those life choices.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  Why FAANG specifically? For instance, how does Apple fail ethically, in your view, compared to the others? Are there any other companies- Microsoft, Uber, Twitter and so forth you would also have a problem with?
- VirusNewbie 5y ago
  You think netflix is a moral compromise? What about the US government?
  - zionic 5y ago
    Netflix was pretty neutral until about 4 years ago. Their leadership jumped the shark and the entire platform has been trash since. Side personal note: Fuck you guys for getting rid of stargate.
    - iliekcomputers 5y ago
      How is the platform being trash (also arguable) related to employee's moral compromises?

throwawai2021 5y ago

Total comp at FAANG for a senior engineer who's been there a few years is more like $800k+.

zionic 5y ago
If true, that just makes it worse in my opinion. Although maybe it’s evidence in my favor? They have to pay people that much to keep doing what they know is wrong…
- vlovich123 5y ago
  Or the job is grueling and requires more time commitment/energy. Or it’s a very niche technical problem. Or the person has an outsized impact on the company in other ways like bringing prestige and making it easier to hire more people. There’s lots of reasons people get paid large sums.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    Or simply tech stocks have been crazy thanks to Federal Reserve interest rate policies.
loeg 5y ago
That’s really only L6+ with some good stock growth. Most senior eng are L5. 350-500k is still a lot.

avalys 5y ago

I would have more respect for this comment (and your entire crusade in this thread) if you were complaining about Facebook for political reasons. I would disagree with you, but, I couuld understand your perspective. But, all FAANG, really? What business are you in that's so noble by comparison?

hiq 5y ago

> Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. Some big companies are also big FOSS contributors. Some people even join these companies to do mostly FOSS (like Golang, AOSP, React, VSC). So if there's a contradiction there, I don't think it's that obvious for everyone. > I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes Actually this might be a good strategy if you have too many applicants and you pay closer to the median of the market rather than the top 10%, since such applicants are less likely to accept your offer. So better stop the process early.

throwaway1269 5y ago

kooshball 5y ago

truly one of the most delusional comment of all time on hn.

chillage 5y ago

Hey. I've never worked for a FAANG, but I am considering joining Facebook. They way I see it, Facebook is hugely impactful and there is real work to do there, ex: flagging disinformation, flagging external government influences, etc. It's challenging and extremely valuable work. If everyone who works at Facebook is blacklisted by people like you, it would just make the company a worse influence on the world because there would be noone left there to make it better. So I would prefer if good people had the freedom to try to make an impact according to their will without fear that people such as yourself will then work hard to tarnish their reputations. Thanks!