4 ms·

I switched to Dvorak in my 20's. I don't think i got faster, but my right-hand wrist which would irritate me and was one reason for the switch, definitely was m

by scoofy 5y ago

I switched to Dvorak in my 20's. I don't think i got faster, but my right-hand wrist which would irritate me and was one reason for the switch, definitely was more comfortable after, and hasn't given me any problems since. That said, switching was a huge pain in the ass.... like horrible for the first two months, and i promised myself i'd keep typing in both. However, i eventually lost the ability to type in qwerty, after about two years, but i honestly don't care, i genuinely love Dvorak. The biggest concern most people probably don't think about is keeping shortcuts like CTRL+X/C/V/S/F, which apple thankfully has a layout for "Dvorak-CMD-Qwerty." The shortcuts are very obviously put where they are so you can toggle them quickly. Many programs don't account for this layout, which is why I wrote an Intellij IDE key mapping for it: https://github.com/scoofy/Intellij-IDEA-Dvorak-QwertyCMD-keymap https://github.com/scoofy/Intellij-IDEA-Dvorak-QwertyCMD-key... The layouts that i think don't get enough love, are the one-handed dvorak layouts designed for amputees. The idea that, in the end, the author suggests yet another standard seems a bit absurd to me.

theonemind 5y ago
I switched to Dvorak from QWERTY without any special control/cmd mapping. As it turns out, it works out fine. I even vim'ed with it. It's just finger memory. The hjkl all in a row might help you remember/initially learn, but once you know which keys on Dvorak move you the right direction, it doesn't take any more time or concern you any more than hjkl on QWERTY do. You know which direction you want to move, and your fingers hit the keys to make it happen without respect to them not having any meaning by keyboard position.
- opan 5y ago
  Very well put. I continued using vim and other shortcuts normally through a Dvorak switch and a Workman switch. It's really not that big of a deal.
xhevahir 5y ago
I switched after developing hand injuries at work (in a job that didn't involve computer use). Since then, whenever I've had to use QWERTY for whatever purpose I've started getting pain in my tendons after a few hours which goes away almost as soon as I'm able to switch back to Dvorak. Like you, though, I found that picking up Dvorak was a total pain in the ass. A while ago I saw a YouTube video in which a guy was telling his viewers that learning it was easy and that the effort was a small price to pay. When I commented that I had had a period of months when I couldn't type anything spontaneously, he suggested that maybe this was due to my age. I was all of thirty at the time I learned it.
- isodude 5y ago
  Took me about three weeks when I switched cold turkey at age 14 to start typing ok. My biggest pain was that the letter I search for was always under the other hand which was resting on the keyboard :) I'm letting my daughter learn it when she's 8 instead.. they just.. learn it. It is truly fascinating from the perspective of a typist. So maybe the youtuber is onto something. I think that you should have a clear strategy when learning though, that will probably speed up the process alot.
- hackshack 5y ago
  Data point. Old fart who switched to Dvorak eons ago, at age 16. It felt natural after 1 week, and felt more efficient than the ‘qwert sometime between weeks 2 and 3. I suspect young age greatly affects take-up speed. Good on ya for taking care of yourself, and switching when you did. Incidentally, at age 26, I used the “left-handed” Dvorak layout for 2 weeks while my right wrist and hand healed from a dirtbike crash. I was only becoming proficient at the 2 week mark. The Dvorak left- and right-hand layouts are not as widely known, and look nothing like the standard two-hand layout… but are incredibly optimized. Even the number row is remapped to accommodate letters. Once I started to grok its efficiency, it felt like 10-key’ing entire words at a time. Might be interesting on modern phones. I experience the same thing with QWERTY and tendons in wrist & forearm. I have to slow down - a lot - and take breaks. I just remap teh kbd if > 15 minutes. iOS kbd keeps my brain familiar with QWERTY; no first-party Dvorak and I don’t expect Apple to ever include one.
  - xhevahir 5y ago
    I tried Dvorak on Android eight or ten years ago and realized that my Dvorak skill would not transfer to a touchscreen, since it consisted entirely of muscle memory and I had no experience of looking at a keyboard that was labeled that way. That and the lack of glide typing (which I've come to rely on) made it useless to me.
    - opan 5y ago
      I've used dvorak and workman on Android, and although you don't exactly get perfect skill transfer, I like these layouts I've invested time in, I like the reminder that I put in that work, I like where the letters are. I am writing this very comment on my phone in workman. The consistency is nice, even if it's not consistency in something as useful as the tactile feel. On the less-bright side, lack of other layouts on the PinePhone have made using it a bit torturous for anything extensive, and that makes me enjoy using mine for anything a bit less.
pnutjam 5y ago
I've never had issues with typing. It's the mouse that irritates my wrist. I swap it from side to side to alleviate the problem. i do have wider hands...
- blarg1 5y ago
  Could try a ball mouse, the one I use, has the thumb on the ball, and the normal fingers for the buttons.
  - pnutjam 5y ago
    I tried one of those, but you can only use them with left or right hand and the wheel still aggravates my wrist. Swapping from left to right seems better. I also add in a little weight training and I don't have any problems.
    - Matrixik 5y ago
      Did you check finger operated trackballs? They are symetrical and can be operated by both hands. Examples: Kensington Orbit, Kensington Expert Trackball, GameBall trackball, Logitech TrackMan Marble, X-keys L-Trac.
- opan 5y ago
  A split keyboard with a trackball placed in the space between the halves may be worth considering.
  - pnutjam 5y ago
    I actually swap between a split keyboard and regular keyboard. I find the variation helps.
drewzero1 5y ago
I've switched to Dvorak twice, first in my teens and again in my 20s. I'd never been great at typing with Qwerty (a lot of hunt and peck) so it was a low bar. I can absolutely relate to the terrible two months (at least) but I at least retained what little ability I had in Qwerty. Both times I've switched back after a few years because of needing to share computers with other people and not wanting to deal with switching the layout (either physically or in the OS). I also had trouble with vintage computers and phone keyboard layouts which couldn't be switched. For some time I was faster at Dvorak and I really enjoyed that, but I think learning Dvorak and switching back has at least made me better at Qwerty. I love Dvorak and will almost certainly start using it again someday. Right now I've accepted I just need to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.
IshKebab 5y ago
I tried it too and lost qwerty skills. That and the shortcuts are the main reason I gave up. I work with other people and was surprised by how often I type on other people's keyboards. A nightmare if you mainly use Dvorak. My initial motivation was also wrist pain. Dvorak helped a bit. I also tried crazy split vertical keyboards which didn't help at all. What fixed it in the end was a bigger desk and a good chair (I have a HM Mirra 2 now; worth the extortionate price). You need your keyboard far enough onto the desk that you can properly rest your forearm on it.

by scoofy 5y ago

theonemind 5y ago

I switched to Dvorak from QWERTY without any special control/cmd mapping. As it turns out, it works out fine. I even vim'ed with it. It's just finger memory. The hjkl all in a row might help you remember/initially learn, but once you know which keys on Dvorak move you the right direction, it doesn't take any more time or concern you any more than hjkl on QWERTY do. You know which direction you want to move, and your fingers hit the keys to make it happen without respect to them not having any meaning by keyboard position.

opan 5y ago
Very well put. I continued using vim and other shortcuts normally through a Dvorak switch and a Workman switch. It's really not that big of a deal.

xhevahir 5y ago

I switched after developing hand injuries at work (in a job that didn't involve computer use). Since then, whenever I've had to use QWERTY for whatever purpose I've started getting pain in my tendons after a few hours which goes away almost as soon as I'm able to switch back to Dvorak. Like you, though, I found that picking up Dvorak was a total pain in the ass. A while ago I saw a YouTube video in which a guy was telling his viewers that learning it was easy and that the effort was a small price to pay. When I commented that I had had a period of months when I couldn't type anything spontaneously, he suggested that maybe this was due to my age. I was all of thirty at the time I learned it.

isodude 5y ago
Took me about three weeks when I switched cold turkey at age 14 to start typing ok. My biggest pain was that the letter I search for was always under the other hand which was resting on the keyboard :) I'm letting my daughter learn it when she's 8 instead.. they just.. learn it. It is truly fascinating from the perspective of a typist. So maybe the youtuber is onto something. I think that you should have a clear strategy when learning though, that will probably speed up the process alot.
hackshack 5y ago
Data point. Old fart who switched to Dvorak eons ago, at age 16. It felt natural after 1 week, and felt more efficient than the ‘qwert sometime between weeks 2 and 3. I suspect young age greatly affects take-up speed. Good on ya for taking care of yourself, and switching when you did. Incidentally, at age 26, I used the “left-handed” Dvorak layout for 2 weeks while my right wrist and hand healed from a dirtbike crash. I was only becoming proficient at the 2 week mark. The Dvorak left- and right-hand layouts are not as widely known, and look nothing like the standard two-hand layout… but are incredibly optimized. Even the number row is remapped to accommodate letters. Once I started to grok its efficiency, it felt like 10-key’ing entire words at a time. Might be interesting on modern phones. I experience the same thing with QWERTY and tendons in wrist & forearm. I have to slow down - a lot - and take breaks. I just remap teh kbd if > 15 minutes. iOS kbd keeps my brain familiar with QWERTY; no first-party Dvorak and I don’t expect Apple to ever include one.
- xhevahir 5y ago
  I tried Dvorak on Android eight or ten years ago and realized that my Dvorak skill would not transfer to a touchscreen, since it consisted entirely of muscle memory and I had no experience of looking at a keyboard that was labeled that way. That and the lack of glide typing (which I've come to rely on) made it useless to me.
  - opan 5y ago
    I've used dvorak and workman on Android, and although you don't exactly get perfect skill transfer, I like these layouts I've invested time in, I like the reminder that I put in that work, I like where the letters are. I am writing this very comment on my phone in workman. The consistency is nice, even if it's not consistency in something as useful as the tactile feel. On the less-bright side, lack of other layouts on the PinePhone have made using it a bit torturous for anything extensive, and that makes me enjoy using mine for anything a bit less.

pnutjam 5y ago

I've never had issues with typing. It's the mouse that irritates my wrist. I swap it from side to side to alleviate the problem. i do have wider hands...

blarg1 5y ago
Could try a ball mouse, the one I use, has the thumb on the ball, and the normal fingers for the buttons.
- pnutjam 5y ago
  I tried one of those, but you can only use them with left or right hand and the wheel still aggravates my wrist. Swapping from left to right seems better. I also add in a little weight training and I don't have any problems.
  - Matrixik 5y ago
    Did you check finger operated trackballs? They are symetrical and can be operated by both hands. Examples: Kensington Orbit, Kensington Expert Trackball, GameBall trackball, Logitech TrackMan Marble, X-keys L-Trac.
opan 5y ago
A split keyboard with a trackball placed in the space between the halves may be worth considering.
- pnutjam 5y ago
  I actually swap between a split keyboard and regular keyboard. I find the variation helps.

drewzero1 5y ago

I've switched to Dvorak twice, first in my teens and again in my 20s. I'd never been great at typing with Qwerty (a lot of hunt and peck) so it was a low bar. I can absolutely relate to the terrible two months (at least) but I at least retained what little ability I had in Qwerty. Both times I've switched back after a few years because of needing to share computers with other people and not wanting to deal with switching the layout (either physically or in the OS). I also had trouble with vintage computers and phone keyboard layouts which couldn't be switched. For some time I was faster at Dvorak and I really enjoyed that, but I think learning Dvorak and switching back has at least made me better at Qwerty. I love Dvorak and will almost certainly start using it again someday. Right now I've accepted I just need to go with the flow and do what everyone else is doing.

IshKebab 5y ago

I tried it too and lost qwerty skills. That and the shortcuts are the main reason I gave up. I work with other people and was surprised by how often I type on other people's keyboards. A nightmare if you mainly use Dvorak. My initial motivation was also wrist pain. Dvorak helped a bit. I also tried crazy split vertical keyboards which didn't help at all. What fixed it in the end was a bigger desk and a good chair (I have a HM Mirra 2 now; worth the extortionate price). You need your keyboard far enough onto the desk that you can properly rest your forearm on it.