3 ms·

Chasing after the Apple aesthetic doesn't work because they're not Apple. Design works holistically and you can't extricate it and expect success. To make this

Chasing after the Apple aesthetic doesn't work because they're not Apple. Design works holistically and you can't extricate it and expect success. To make this obvious, let me use an analogy. If a vegan restaurant found a very successful steakhouse and decided to copy their decor of say game animal heads and rifles on the wall, it would probably decrease their sales regardless of how faithfully they match the aesthetics. The context matters. Also the fact that both imaginary businesses are in the same industry of serving food isn't enough of a similarity. It's quite specific. And even if the contexts match, the pursuit just makes them seen as a knockoff; a laggard, an imitation. The goal isn't to meet the competition, it's either to beat it or be somewhere else. Intentionally making yourself a 2nd rate Apple isn't a positioning strategy; they could simply introduce a discount line and knock you out in a single blow. It's phenomenally stupid

tssva 5y ago
I and many others find the Apple UX experience to be awful. If I wanted to suffer through it I would just buy a MacBook. I purposely didn't get another MacBook when my last one died.
- copperx 5y ago
  Awful compared to what, if I may ask?
  - tssva 5y ago
    All versions of Windows it has competed against except Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.
  - zakius 5y ago
    to any sane desktop environment so basically windows (except the 11 abomination) and KDE
- silon42 5y ago
  +1 We want an improved W2K... Linux is probably the best way to get it (with many tweaks... start by not using Gnome).
  - pmontra 5y ago
    At least GNOME designers apparently are using GNOME and they still let me configure my desktop as I want it to be. I undid some man years of their work and used some others.
    - garaetjjte 5y ago
      Uh, I think GNOME3 suffers from the same authoritarian minimalism design problem.
      - pmontra 5y ago
        Indeed but at least they dogfood their work and they like the result (can't understand why.)
  - prmoustache 5y ago
    Some people like Gnome. I like using gnome on my Lenovo Yoga as it is as efficient being keyboard driven as it is using the desktop as a tablet.
    - alpaca128 5y ago
      I usually prefer tiling WMs but among the more modern Linux desktops Gnome is my favorite. It does all I need in a polished way. At least since the performance improvements, initially Gnome 3 was just too sluggish.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    Win2K was great. When I used Win7, I used the Windows Classic theme which made it look like Win2K. I use Windows Blinds on my Win10 system to make it look like Win98, which is close enough to 2K. And for extra lulz, my screensaver is the Windows 95 loading screen.
- boardwaalk 5y ago
  It wouldn’t conflate the state of Windows 11 with macOS at all really. Just because you dislike macOS doesn’t mean Windows 11 is like macOS because it’s kind of bad. macOS isn’t perfect but Apple hasn’t mangled core features like the task bar and start menu for something that is superficially prettier but lacks a bunch of actually useful features that used to exist.
aylmao 5y ago
+1, context matters a lot. In my experience, the Dock alone is pretty terrible for window management. I use it mostly as a launcher and for easy access to files/directories. Its design works in macOS because it isn't the primary utility to manage windows there. The center of window management in macOS I'd say is easy access to Mission Control (prev. Exposé). All Macs come with either a huge, multi-touch trackpad or a Magic Mouse with gestures to trigger it. I sometimes use my Macbook with a "normal" mouse— I've mapped all extra buttons to trigger Mission Control commands otherwise I wouldn't be able to effectively navigate my way around. Moreover, full-screen windows are automatically made their own desktop, so one switches between these windows using desktop switching. I actually am just now remembering that the Dock supports window switching with a ctrl-click: I completely forgot since I only use it for rudimentary app switching and for windows it's all Mission Control and desktops. This, is context at the OS-level and hardware levels, but of course there's also the user base and what they're used to after years of using their computers.
- qsort 5y ago
  Exactly, I'm also on mac and I don't really like some individual design choices, but when taken together, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Copying some individual elements is just really dumb. For example, Gnome 3 copied the mac menu bar. Except menus don't actually go there (windows still have their own menu bar), negating the very meaning of having an unified menu bar. The result is that my desktop now has a ugly-ass, useless, wasteful black bar on top. Why. I have to agree with the OP, it's the triumph of form over function.
zakius 5y ago
it's simple, apple users want ugly and confusing UI while windows users want pretty and practical UI, bringing the apple one to windows will never work
BBC-vs-neolibs 5y ago

tssva 5y ago

I and many others find the Apple UX experience to be awful. If I wanted to suffer through it I would just buy a MacBook. I purposely didn't get another MacBook when my last one died.

copperx 5y ago
Awful compared to what, if I may ask?
- tssva 5y ago
  All versions of Windows it has competed against except Windows 8 and Windows 8.1.
- zakius 5y ago
  to any sane desktop environment so basically windows (except the 11 abomination) and KDE
silon42 5y ago
+1 We want an improved W2K... Linux is probably the best way to get it (with many tweaks... start by not using Gnome).
- pmontra 5y ago
  At least GNOME designers apparently are using GNOME and they still let me configure my desktop as I want it to be. I undid some man years of their work and used some others.
  - garaetjjte 5y ago
    Uh, I think GNOME3 suffers from the same authoritarian minimalism design problem.
    - pmontra 5y ago
      Indeed but at least they dogfood their work and they like the result (can't understand why.)
- prmoustache 5y ago
  Some people like Gnome. I like using gnome on my Lenovo Yoga as it is as efficient being keyboard driven as it is using the desktop as a tablet.
  - alpaca128 5y ago
    I usually prefer tiling WMs but among the more modern Linux desktops Gnome is my favorite. It does all I need in a polished way. At least since the performance improvements, initially Gnome 3 was just too sluggish.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  Win2K was great. When I used Win7, I used the Windows Classic theme which made it look like Win2K. I use Windows Blinds on my Win10 system to make it look like Win98, which is close enough to 2K. And for extra lulz, my screensaver is the Windows 95 loading screen.
boardwaalk 5y ago
It wouldn’t conflate the state of Windows 11 with macOS at all really. Just because you dislike macOS doesn’t mean Windows 11 is like macOS because it’s kind of bad. macOS isn’t perfect but Apple hasn’t mangled core features like the task bar and start menu for something that is superficially prettier but lacks a bunch of actually useful features that used to exist.

aylmao 5y ago

+1, context matters a lot. In my experience, the Dock alone is pretty terrible for window management. I use it mostly as a launcher and for easy access to files/directories. Its design works in macOS because it isn't the primary utility to manage windows there. The center of window management in macOS I'd say is easy access to Mission Control (prev. Exposé). All Macs come with either a huge, multi-touch trackpad or a Magic Mouse with gestures to trigger it. I sometimes use my Macbook with a "normal" mouse— I've mapped all extra buttons to trigger Mission Control commands otherwise I wouldn't be able to effectively navigate my way around. Moreover, full-screen windows are automatically made their own desktop, so one switches between these windows using desktop switching. I actually am just now remembering that the Dock supports window switching with a ctrl-click: I completely forgot since I only use it for rudimentary app switching and for windows it's all Mission Control and desktops. This, is context at the OS-level and hardware levels, but of course there's also the user base and what they're used to after years of using their computers.

qsort 5y ago
Exactly, I'm also on mac and I don't really like some individual design choices, but when taken together, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Copying some individual elements is just really dumb. For example, Gnome 3 copied the mac menu bar. Except menus don't actually go there (windows still have their own menu bar), negating the very meaning of having an unified menu bar. The result is that my desktop now has a ugly-ass, useless, wasteful black bar on top. Why. I have to agree with the OP, it's the triumph of form over function.

zakius 5y ago

it's simple, apple users want ugly and confusing UI while windows users want pretty and practical UI, bringing the apple one to windows will never work

BBC-vs-neolibs 5y ago