4 ms·

Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shoul

Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shouldn't worry about covid anymore. "Hey, I'm young and healthy, why should I worry about it?" feels like the wrong attitude we should be taking as a society. I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid

noah_buddy 5y ago
> I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.
- remarkEon 5y ago
  >deaths and bad health due to inactivity This is the next big story about the deleterious effect of lock-downs and masking and social distancing etc, after basically ruining a generation of education. Many are in the worst shape of their lives right now because they haven't been able to do their usual work-out routine at the gym. The knock-on effects of this won't be felt for a while, but they will be real. Ironically this makes otherwise healthy <65 year old people more at-risk for bad covid outcomes (albeit it's still exceedingly low risk, especially if vax'd).
  - orwin 5y ago
    I'm sorry I'm a bit insensitive, this isn't my experience at all. Me and all my friends are in better shape (most of them left big city to go to a more rural area), all of them now cook (i might have influenced this). my brother and sister are too, two of my cousins went from 35+ BMI to 30 BMI, the rest are still in shape. It might be because of the environment, or the country. It is easier for me to be outside, we have outdoor gyms 8n most cities, sometime with gym trails. My point is the experience is very anecdotal, and can be great for some and a disaster for others. I've heard that autistics people in the US suffer from wearing masks. My psychologist (specialized in functional autism) told me that most of her patients feel the same way I do, or better, even those deeper on the spectrum. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are generalizing too much, and maybe too US-centric.
- tracker1 5y ago
  I would say that a solution to that would be more volunteerism. Perhaps even drawing some inspiration from the 2nd amendment. "A well organized militia being necessary..." ... Actually, you know go a step beyond registration and have more coordinated training, including field medics. If 1 in 10 people have a minimal level of field medic training, that would cover a LOT of slack in terms of something like a national or global pandemic. It doesn't have to be regular doctors, or even RNs that take up the slack. The bulk of the work is cleaning, monitoring and keeping things relatively calm and structured. Triage is meant to sort based on urgency of need... You don't need the most trained people to give attention, and keep things relatively calm. Of course, the reasonableness of training 1:10th of the population in this way for an event that may occur once a century and is largely unavoidable is also up for debate.
tracker1 5y ago
Do you have the same reaction to other common virus/cold vectors? Hospitals and healthcare workers are partly overworked at this point because there is under staffing, a huge number quit or were otherwise laid off and decided no to come back. It's not a lack of space. The other side are the number of people going to the hospital in a panic because they have a cough and think they're going to die out of panic. The level of FUD spread over COVID is palpable and exceeds the danger, and largely has since the beginning. EVERYONE is going to get COVID at some point. That is the scientific consensus. Trying to reach COVID zero or force everyone to lock down in perpetuity is anti-science. This is largely why GB, one of the more oppressed nations in terms of response has now completely rolled back govt restrictions/mandates. Omicron (latest variant) is so virulent that it's massively spread, but the symptoms are less than a typical flu year. I went through it a few weeks ago, so did my fiance. She's fully vaxxed and got it worse than I did. I'm not vaxed for medical reasons. I've had worse cases of the flu. I realize I'm an N of 1, but there are a LOT of people with similar results. These include a lot of vaccinated elderly. As to the breaking point... the 2018 flu season had many facilities overwhelmed... it's actually really typical. Why, because hospitals don't have a ton of excess staff sitting around doing nothing all day. They are staffed to 50-65% of expected typical capacity, because emergencies are typically regional, and some will travel to help. When the problem is everywhere, there's no slack. There's literally not much that can be done about that. If you want to hermetically seal off your home, you are welcome to do so... but to force everyone else to do so because you have unrealistic expectations on the risks of walking outside your front door is not alright.
- terminatornet 5y ago
  > Do you have the same reaction to other common virus/cold vectors? The ones that affect 30% less of the US population in an 8 week span typically? No https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1483996724427251714 https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1483996724427251714
- escapedmoose 5y ago
  > The other side are the number of people going to the hospital in a panic because they have a cough and think they're going to die out of panic. Extremely high test positivity rates show that this isn't the case. And yes, flu outbreaks can and do periodically overwhelm health systems, but not to this extent: where entire healthcare systems (not just hospitals) are cancelling lucrative elective procedures, broadly restricting/removing visitation, employing federal disaster relief, etc. That's at least the case in my state; I can't speak for yours of course. AFAIK we also don't know much about the prevalence of "long COVID" from Omicron. Anecdotally, of the dozen or so people (mid-30s, all but 1 vaccinated) I personally know who got COVID over the holidays (so presumably Omicron), 2 were hospitalized and 5 were completely floored by COVID for at least a month. My vaccinated sister still doesn't have her sense of taste/smell back two months later. I think in a month or so we vaccinated folks can probably start acting normal again, like we did last summer. But at the moment it doesn't seem like the best time to take the gamble.

noah_buddy 5y ago

> I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.

remarkEon 5y ago
>deaths and bad health due to inactivity This is the next big story about the deleterious effect of lock-downs and masking and social distancing etc, after basically ruining a generation of education. Many are in the worst shape of their lives right now because they haven't been able to do their usual work-out routine at the gym. The knock-on effects of this won't be felt for a while, but they will be real. Ironically this makes otherwise healthy <65 year old people more at-risk for bad covid outcomes (albeit it's still exceedingly low risk, especially if vax'd).
- orwin 5y ago
  I'm sorry I'm a bit insensitive, this isn't my experience at all. Me and all my friends are in better shape (most of them left big city to go to a more rural area), all of them now cook (i might have influenced this). my brother and sister are too, two of my cousins went from 35+ BMI to 30 BMI, the rest are still in shape. It might be because of the environment, or the country. It is easier for me to be outside, we have outdoor gyms 8n most cities, sometime with gym trails. My point is the experience is very anecdotal, and can be great for some and a disaster for others. I've heard that autistics people in the US suffer from wearing masks. My psychologist (specialized in functional autism) told me that most of her patients feel the same way I do, or better, even those deeper on the spectrum. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are generalizing too much, and maybe too US-centric.
tracker1 5y ago
I would say that a solution to that would be more volunteerism. Perhaps even drawing some inspiration from the 2nd amendment. "A well organized militia being necessary..." ... Actually, you know go a step beyond registration and have more coordinated training, including field medics. If 1 in 10 people have a minimal level of field medic training, that would cover a LOT of slack in terms of something like a national or global pandemic. It doesn't have to be regular doctors, or even RNs that take up the slack. The bulk of the work is cleaning, monitoring and keeping things relatively calm and structured. Triage is meant to sort based on urgency of need... You don't need the most trained people to give attention, and keep things relatively calm. Of course, the reasonableness of training 1:10th of the population in this way for an event that may occur once a century and is largely unavoidable is also up for debate.

tracker1 5y ago

Do you have the same reaction to other common virus/cold vectors? Hospitals and healthcare workers are partly overworked at this point because there is under staffing, a huge number quit or were otherwise laid off and decided no to come back. It's not a lack of space. The other side are the number of people going to the hospital in a panic because they have a cough and think they're going to die out of panic. The level of FUD spread over COVID is palpable and exceeds the danger, and largely has since the beginning. EVERYONE is going to get COVID at some point. That is the scientific consensus. Trying to reach COVID zero or force everyone to lock down in perpetuity is anti-science. This is largely why GB, one of the more oppressed nations in terms of response has now completely rolled back govt restrictions/mandates. Omicron (latest variant) is so virulent that it's massively spread, but the symptoms are less than a typical flu year. I went through it a few weeks ago, so did my fiance. She's fully vaxxed and got it worse than I did. I'm not vaxed for medical reasons. I've had worse cases of the flu. I realize I'm an N of 1, but there are a LOT of people with similar results. These include a lot of vaccinated elderly. As to the breaking point... the 2018 flu season had many facilities overwhelmed... it's actually really typical. Why, because hospitals don't have a ton of excess staff sitting around doing nothing all day. They are staffed to 50-65% of expected typical capacity, because emergencies are typically regional, and some will travel to help. When the problem is everywhere, there's no slack. There's literally not much that can be done about that. If you want to hermetically seal off your home, you are welcome to do so... but to force everyone else to do so because you have unrealistic expectations on the risks of walking outside your front door is not alright.

terminatornet 5y ago
> Do you have the same reaction to other common virus/cold vectors? The ones that affect 30% less of the US population in an 8 week span typically? No https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1483996724427251714 https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1483996724427251714
escapedmoose 5y ago
> The other side are the number of people going to the hospital in a panic because they have a cough and think they're going to die out of panic. Extremely high test positivity rates show that this isn't the case. And yes, flu outbreaks can and do periodically overwhelm health systems, but not to this extent: where entire healthcare systems (not just hospitals) are cancelling lucrative elective procedures, broadly restricting/removing visitation, employing federal disaster relief, etc. That's at least the case in my state; I can't speak for yours of course. AFAIK we also don't know much about the prevalence of "long COVID" from Omicron. Anecdotally, of the dozen or so people (mid-30s, all but 1 vaccinated) I personally know who got COVID over the holidays (so presumably Omicron), 2 were hospitalized and 5 were completely floored by COVID for at least a month. My vaccinated sister still doesn't have her sense of taste/smell back two months later. I think in a month or so we vaccinated folks can probably start acting normal again, like we did last summer. But at the moment it doesn't seem like the best time to take the gamble.