5 ms·

Do you think they might be upset when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese because they brought home covid from school or nah?

sha256sum 5y ago
If those parents are as baselessly paranoid as you, they should keep their children home or find other accommodations.
remarkEon 5y ago
>when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese I'm going to be charitable and assume you don't think this actually happens, and are simply using this image for rhetorical effect. But, in the interest of trying to be helpful in yet-another-stupid-covid-thread, here's the CDC's take[1]: >Among 1,228,664 persons who completed primary vaccination during December 2020–October 2021, severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (0.015%) or death (0.0033%) were rare. Risk factors for severe outcomes included age ≥65 years, immunosuppressed, and six other underlying conditions. All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. [Emphasis mine] Now, I'm not saying it's time to stop worrying about this completely. Who knows, maybe a new "worse" variant comes up. But the existing data does not in any way make me worried about getting this, because I'm relatively young and healthy. Make your own judgements on personal risk, but if I were in charge I'd go completely back to normal tomorrow. Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. [1]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm7101a4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm...
- MattRix 5y ago
  Ok now show the data of what percentage of people have long term side effects from having covid.
  - ryathal 5y ago
    Similar to chronic Lyme and not really relevant.
- terminatornet 5y ago
  Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shouldn't worry about covid anymore. "Hey, I'm young and healthy, why should I worry about it?" feels like the wrong attitude we should be taking as a society. I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid
  - noah_buddy 5y ago
    > I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.
    - remarkEon 5y ago
      >deaths and bad health due to inactivity This is the next big story about the deleterious effect of lock-downs and masking and social distancing etc, after basically ruining a generation of education. Many are in the worst shape of their lives right now because they haven't been able to do their usual work-out routine at the gym. The knock-on effects of this won't be felt for a while, but they will be real. Ironically this makes otherwise healthy <65 year old people more at-risk for bad covid outcomes (albeit it's still exceedingly low risk, especially if vax'd).
- msbarnett 5y ago
  > All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. It’s worth discussing what these risk factors are, since they’re a lot more common and broader than people imagine. I myself have at least 4 CDC identified factors: I’m lactose intolerant, have an anxiety disorder, seasonal allergies and “caffeine dependency”. While the overall number of adverse advents in my age range aren’t terribly concerning, the “at least 4 risk factors” discourse strikes me as terribly misleading because many of these “risk factors” that are used to handwave away deaths are common and utterly benign. How many other people in this industry have acne, are on the autism spectrum, suffer from depression, experience lower back pain? Practically everyone I’ve ever worked with is probably pushing 4 factors.
  - spxtr 5y ago
    I'm probably misreading this, but I see "In this study, age ≥65 years, immunosuppression, diabetes, and chronic kidney, cardiac, pulmonary, neurologic, and liver disease were associated with higher odds for severe COVID-19 outcomes;" listed as the eight risk factors. Where are you seeing the ones you listed?
    - msbarnett 5y ago
      It comes from their full comorbidity tracking dataset: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbid... Some of these aren't common comorbidities, but they nonetheless factor in to the "died with N comorbidities" averages
      - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
        Good news! The CDC does not identify every comorbidity as a risk factor. I’m glad they provide the data so you can make a more nuanced decision on your own.
  - imgabe 5y ago
    > I myself have at least 4 CDC identified factors: I’m lactose intolerant, have an anxiety disorder, seasonal allergies and “caffeine dependency”. These are just widespread things in the population. If 80% of the population has a caffeine dependency, then it's not surprising that 80% of people who die of Covid have a caffeine dependency. That doesn't mean they're related.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  > Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. This is the whole reason we can't got back to normal tomorrow, even if you could make it so by being "in charge". When I look around at the faculty in my school district, I see a whole lot of comorbidities, and those are just the visible ones. And yes, some of the faculty have died from Covid, one of them was 37, the other 43. How do you get kids in school and protect teachers at the same time. These teachers already have to deal with the looming threat of school shootings. But now they also have to deal with Covid, and on top of that they went from being called "essential workers" to being called criminals (just look at the comment section in TFA). This is leading to a teacher shortage, where young people no longer want to enter the profession, and older people are retiring. So if you really, truly want to open schools for the sake of children, figure out a way to do so that makes teachers feel safe to teach, or start teaching yourself.
  - remarkEon 5y ago
    >This is the whole reason we can't got back to normal tomorrow Nah. If you want to disengage from society based on your personal risk preferences, you should be free to do so. At this point, two years after this started, I should be free to reengage in my normal activities (the gym, catching the game with the guys on the weekend, taking my wife to a show). >When I look around at the faculty in my school district, I see a whole lot of comorbidities, and those are just the visible ones. And these policies are going to make those comorbidities worse, not better. Everyone is less healthy today than they were 2 years ago when this started because we're sitting in front of a screen all day. This includes children. Headline from 2034: Obesity and Type 1 diabetes are at an all-time high. Were school lockdowns during the 2020-2024 pandemic the cause? >This is leading to a teacher shortage Where? In places that are locked down? These policies are causing that, and it's actually exacerbating education gaps for underrepresented minorities or socioeconomically disadvantaged folks who can't afford a private school that doesn't do this stuff. >So if you really, truly want to open schools for the sake of children, figure out a way to do so that makes teachers feel safe to teach, or start teaching yourself. My wife and I will likely be homeschooling, for a number of reasons, but one of them is that we'd like our children to not be held hostage to a cultural moment that wants to turn covid policies into the next 9/11. Permanent societal change for little if any tangible benefit.

sha256sum 5y ago

If those parents are as baselessly paranoid as you, they should keep their children home or find other accommodations.

remarkEon 5y ago

>when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese I'm going to be charitable and assume you don't think this actually happens, and are simply using this image for rhetorical effect. But, in the interest of trying to be helpful in yet-another-stupid-covid-thread, here's the CDC's take[1]: >Among 1,228,664 persons who completed primary vaccination during December 2020–October 2021, severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (0.015%) or death (0.0033%) were rare. Risk factors for severe outcomes included age ≥65 years, immunosuppressed, and six other underlying conditions. All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. [Emphasis mine] Now, I'm not saying it's time to stop worrying about this completely. Who knows, maybe a new "worse" variant comes up. But the existing data does not in any way make me worried about getting this, because I'm relatively young and healthy. Make your own judgements on personal risk, but if I were in charge I'd go completely back to normal tomorrow. Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. [1]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm7101a4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm...

MattRix 5y ago
Ok now show the data of what percentage of people have long term side effects from having covid.
- ryathal 5y ago
  Similar to chronic Lyme and not really relevant.
terminatornet 5y ago
Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shouldn't worry about covid anymore. "Hey, I'm young and healthy, why should I worry about it?" feels like the wrong attitude we should be taking as a society. I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid
- noah_buddy 5y ago
  > I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.
  - remarkEon 5y ago
    >deaths and bad health due to inactivity This is the next big story about the deleterious effect of lock-downs and masking and social distancing etc, after basically ruining a generation of education. Many are in the worst shape of their lives right now because they haven't been able to do their usual work-out routine at the gym. The knock-on effects of this won't be felt for a while, but they will be real. Ironically this makes otherwise healthy <65 year old people more at-risk for bad covid outcomes (albeit it's still exceedingly low risk, especially if vax'd).
msbarnett 5y ago
> All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. It’s worth discussing what these risk factors are, since they’re a lot more common and broader than people imagine. I myself have at least 4 CDC identified factors: I’m lactose intolerant, have an anxiety disorder, seasonal allergies and “caffeine dependency”. While the overall number of adverse advents in my age range aren’t terribly concerning, the “at least 4 risk factors” discourse strikes me as terribly misleading because many of these “risk factors” that are used to handwave away deaths are common and utterly benign. How many other people in this industry have acne, are on the autism spectrum, suffer from depression, experience lower back pain? Practically everyone I’ve ever worked with is probably pushing 4 factors.
- spxtr 5y ago
  I'm probably misreading this, but I see "In this study, age ≥65 years, immunosuppression, diabetes, and chronic kidney, cardiac, pulmonary, neurologic, and liver disease were associated with higher odds for severe COVID-19 outcomes;" listed as the eight risk factors. Where are you seeing the ones you listed?
  - msbarnett 5y ago
    It comes from their full comorbidity tracking dataset: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbidity-expanded-12092020-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_policy/covid19-comorbid... Some of these aren't common comorbidities, but they nonetheless factor in to the "died with N comorbidities" averages
    - thoughtstheseus 5y ago
      Good news! The CDC does not identify every comorbidity as a risk factor. I’m glad they provide the data so you can make a more nuanced decision on your own.
- imgabe 5y ago
  > I myself have at least 4 CDC identified factors: I’m lactose intolerant, have an anxiety disorder, seasonal allergies and “caffeine dependency”. These are just widespread things in the population. If 80% of the population has a caffeine dependency, then it's not surprising that 80% of people who die of Covid have a caffeine dependency. That doesn't mean they're related.
ModernMech 5y ago
> Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. This is the whole reason we can't got back to normal tomorrow, even if you could make it so by being "in charge". When I look around at the faculty in my school district, I see a whole lot of comorbidities, and those are just the visible ones. And yes, some of the faculty have died from Covid, one of them was 37, the other 43. How do you get kids in school and protect teachers at the same time. These teachers already have to deal with the looming threat of school shootings. But now they also have to deal with Covid, and on top of that they went from being called "essential workers" to being called criminals (just look at the comment section in TFA). This is leading to a teacher shortage, where young people no longer want to enter the profession, and older people are retiring. So if you really, truly want to open schools for the sake of children, figure out a way to do so that makes teachers feel safe to teach, or start teaching yourself.
- remarkEon 5y ago
  >This is the whole reason we can't got back to normal tomorrow Nah. If you want to disengage from society based on your personal risk preferences, you should be free to do so. At this point, two years after this started, I should be free to reengage in my normal activities (the gym, catching the game with the guys on the weekend, taking my wife to a show). >When I look around at the faculty in my school district, I see a whole lot of comorbidities, and those are just the visible ones. And these policies are going to make those comorbidities worse, not better. Everyone is less healthy today than they were 2 years ago when this started because we're sitting in front of a screen all day. This includes children. Headline from 2034: Obesity and Type 1 diabetes are at an all-time high. Were school lockdowns during the 2020-2024 pandemic the cause? >This is leading to a teacher shortage Where? In places that are locked down? These policies are causing that, and it's actually exacerbating education gaps for underrepresented minorities or socioeconomically disadvantaged folks who can't afford a private school that doesn't do this stuff. >So if you really, truly want to open schools for the sake of children, figure out a way to do so that makes teachers feel safe to teach, or start teaching yourself. My wife and I will likely be homeschooling, for a number of reasons, but one of them is that we'd like our children to not be held hostage to a cultural moment that wants to turn covid policies into the next 9/11. Permanent societal change for little if any tangible benefit.