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Be interesting to know for the "remotes" how remote is remote. Some are localish remotes, some are world wide remotes, and some somewhere in-between. One of th

Be interesting to know for the "remotes" how remote is remote. Some are localish remotes, some are world wide remotes, and some somewhere in-between. One of the problems seems to be ( and I'm sure some start up will try to solve this) is employing people worldwide has a lot of legal issues with regards to local employment laws and payment issues.

askonomm 5y ago
I think a common solution to this is that if you want to be a remote worker with a worldwide employment pool, you need to set-up an entity from under which to invoice, whether that would be freelancing or having an LLC, and then you take care of your taxes, healthcare, and so on yourself. At least this is how I know everyone (myself included) do it. It's not really complicated, you just need to hire an accountant, and company formation usually is also not expensive.
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  This. I've billed, from Belgium, clients in both the US and Switzerland. Had zero problem receiving payments.
- learc83 5y ago
  The more common this becomes the more likely people in the US (where most people are trying to work) take notice and enforce existing labor laws, and push for more regulation. I’ve worked with people doing this in the past and they almost certainly are contractors in name only. That is they are essentially full time employees operating as contractors to skirt legal issues.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    askonomm wrote remote worker, not remote employee. A remote worker can be an independent contractor and easily not run afoul of employee/contractor distinctions, especially because a lot of those distinctions have to do with being at a certain place at a certain time, and being locked to one client.
    - askonomm 5y ago
      Yup, remote worker not employee. That being said, I'm officially a contractor, but I always work for just one client at a time and usually for many years, from Monday to Friday, just like one would with a regular job, except of course remotely. With my current client I even get paid vacations, while still technically being a contractor.
      - learc83 5y ago
        That’s exactly what I’m talking about. You are essentially a full time employee in all but name. Here’s one of the tests. Notice vacation is explicitly called out. > Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation). Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business? Your employer is clearly treating you like an employee while paying you like a contractor. This kind of thing is common. But the more US jobs get outsourced like this, the more likely it is that people will notice and demand enforcement actions.
        askonomm 5y ago
        I wonder how would one enforce this. I invoice once per month for the hours I logged (that might include vacation hours), but the invoice itself says "Software Development Services {month} {year}". Or do you mean we wouldn't be able to have vacation as part of the contract? Or not allow a contractor to work for one client for more than X time per year? Seems pretty tricky. And how or who would enforce this for me, who is an Estonian citizen, Argentinian resident, and operates from under a USA based LLC as a non-resident USA company owner, working mostly for European start-ups? Which country would do the enforcing in this case?
        keithnz 5y ago
        the US would want to enforce it, not so much to be nice to Estonians / Argentinians, but to to stop US companies bypassing US workers by going overseas and bypassing laws to protect employees.
        5y ago
jono_wilson 5y ago
Yeah, I'm sure it can vary widely; we try to stick with US timezones, which at least brings all of South America into play. Deel is really great for the legal issues of onboarding international folks.
- ThalesX 5y ago
  Not affiliated but onboarded with Deel and it was truly a breeze... on the contractor side.
frfl 5y ago
There's companies that specialize in global employment*, either by being employers of record in the employee's country and managing all that means, letting the actual company that wants to hire the employee not worry about that. Some similarly assist with contract positions in such situations letsdeel.com and remote.com are two such companies that provide this kind of service. * well I should actually call it global HR, not employment.
pm90 5y ago
It isn’t that difficult to sort out issues wrt to employment laws. The bigger issues are probably due to data sharing/privacy concerns, threat of legal action by local Governments and problems with teams working in very different time zones.
mstibbard 5y ago
I think most "remotes" are within time zone-proximity. The employment regulation burden is also massive for going truly global-remote. Australia and NZ for example have strong employment laws AND do not overlap time zone-wise with most of the rest of the world. We have some great talent here but it's often too hard to make it work. Disclaimer: I made https://rafo.com.au https://rafo.com.au to collate remote jobs that work for Aussies & Kiwis.
- bin_bash 5y ago
  it's also hard to work with people across hemispheres because of daylight saving time. I'm used to the hour difference I have with people I work with in Europe but I have no idea how many hours I'm separated from Australians because it changes 4 times through the year.
  - aunty_helen 5y ago
    Wait, doesn't your calendar just update itself for this? This is a pretty weak reason. It changes at most 2 hours.
    - bin_bash 5y ago
      no? if I create a meeting at 9am pacific zone that happens every wednesday it will move around for people in australia being a different time throughout the year. Meetings are also not the only reason to want to know what time it is for colleagues. There is also setting up on-call and knowing when to message people.
- ryankicks 5y ago
  Ryan here from YC. There are certainly companies looking for talent that is only time-zone friendly. Having run an engineering team co-located in SF & Beijing, I know how hard it is myself to be working odd hours for standups, product syncs, etc. That said, there are other companies that are hiring truly global. I know OneSignal is one such YC startup, having hired somebody during the pandemic in the Netherlands. Last year alone, YC startups hired across over 40 countries. I can dig into more data re: how many were US-based companies hiring abroad -- that's a good distinction.
xtracto 5y ago
Payment in remote countries is a solved issue, by the likes of GlobalizationPartners or via.work I've been working for US companies while living in Mexico for years. 100% legally hired in my country, with all the benefits and even equity from the USA startups

askonomm 5y ago

I think a common solution to this is that if you want to be a remote worker with a worldwide employment pool, you need to set-up an entity from under which to invoice, whether that would be freelancing or having an LLC, and then you take care of your taxes, healthcare, and so on yourself. At least this is how I know everyone (myself included) do it. It's not really complicated, you just need to hire an accountant, and company formation usually is also not expensive.

TacticalCoder 5y ago
This. I've billed, from Belgium, clients in both the US and Switzerland. Had zero problem receiving payments.
learc83 5y ago
The more common this becomes the more likely people in the US (where most people are trying to work) take notice and enforce existing labor laws, and push for more regulation. I’ve worked with people doing this in the past and they almost certainly are contractors in name only. That is they are essentially full time employees operating as contractors to skirt legal issues.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  askonomm wrote remote worker, not remote employee. A remote worker can be an independent contractor and easily not run afoul of employee/contractor distinctions, especially because a lot of those distinctions have to do with being at a certain place at a certain time, and being locked to one client.
  - askonomm 5y ago
    Yup, remote worker not employee. That being said, I'm officially a contractor, but I always work for just one client at a time and usually for many years, from Monday to Friday, just like one would with a regular job, except of course remotely. With my current client I even get paid vacations, while still technically being a contractor.
    - learc83 5y ago
      That’s exactly what I’m talking about. You are essentially a full time employee in all but name. Here’s one of the tests. Notice vacation is explicitly called out. > Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation). Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business? Your employer is clearly treating you like an employee while paying you like a contractor. This kind of thing is common. But the more US jobs get outsourced like this, the more likely it is that people will notice and demand enforcement actions.
      - askonomm 5y ago
        I wonder how would one enforce this. I invoice once per month for the hours I logged (that might include vacation hours), but the invoice itself says "Software Development Services {month} {year}". Or do you mean we wouldn't be able to have vacation as part of the contract? Or not allow a contractor to work for one client for more than X time per year? Seems pretty tricky. And how or who would enforce this for me, who is an Estonian citizen, Argentinian resident, and operates from under a USA based LLC as a non-resident USA company owner, working mostly for European start-ups? Which country would do the enforcing in this case?
        keithnz 5y ago
        the US would want to enforce it, not so much to be nice to Estonians / Argentinians, but to to stop US companies bypassing US workers by going overseas and bypassing laws to protect employees.
        5y ago

jono_wilson 5y ago

Yeah, I'm sure it can vary widely; we try to stick with US timezones, which at least brings all of South America into play. Deel is really great for the legal issues of onboarding international folks.

ThalesX 5y ago
Not affiliated but onboarded with Deel and it was truly a breeze... on the contractor side.

frfl 5y ago

There's companies that specialize in global employment*, either by being employers of record in the employee's country and managing all that means, letting the actual company that wants to hire the employee not worry about that. Some similarly assist with contract positions in such situations letsdeel.com and remote.com are two such companies that provide this kind of service. * well I should actually call it global HR, not employment.

pm90 5y ago

It isn’t that difficult to sort out issues wrt to employment laws. The bigger issues are probably due to data sharing/privacy concerns, threat of legal action by local Governments and problems with teams working in very different time zones.

mstibbard 5y ago

I think most "remotes" are within time zone-proximity. The employment regulation burden is also massive for going truly global-remote. Australia and NZ for example have strong employment laws AND do not overlap time zone-wise with most of the rest of the world. We have some great talent here but it's often too hard to make it work. Disclaimer: I made https://rafo.com.au https://rafo.com.au to collate remote jobs that work for Aussies & Kiwis.

bin_bash 5y ago
it's also hard to work with people across hemispheres because of daylight saving time. I'm used to the hour difference I have with people I work with in Europe but I have no idea how many hours I'm separated from Australians because it changes 4 times through the year.
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  Wait, doesn't your calendar just update itself for this? This is a pretty weak reason. It changes at most 2 hours.
  - bin_bash 5y ago
    no? if I create a meeting at 9am pacific zone that happens every wednesday it will move around for people in australia being a different time throughout the year. Meetings are also not the only reason to want to know what time it is for colleagues. There is also setting up on-call and knowing when to message people.
ryankicks 5y ago
Ryan here from YC. There are certainly companies looking for talent that is only time-zone friendly. Having run an engineering team co-located in SF & Beijing, I know how hard it is myself to be working odd hours for standups, product syncs, etc. That said, there are other companies that are hiring truly global. I know OneSignal is one such YC startup, having hired somebody during the pandemic in the Netherlands. Last year alone, YC startups hired across over 40 countries. I can dig into more data re: how many were US-based companies hiring abroad -- that's a good distinction.

xtracto 5y ago

Payment in remote countries is a solved issue, by the likes of GlobalizationPartners or via.work I've been working for US companies while living in Mexico for years. 100% legally hired in my country, with all the benefits and even equity from the USA startups