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The children at my wife’s daycare are treated the same way (vectors of disease) by a selection of paranoid parents, inciting fear to the point that daycare clos

The children at my wife’s daycare are treated the same way (vectors of disease) by a selection of paranoid parents, inciting fear to the point that daycare closed last week. My toddler was crying a lot, wanting to see his friends. Who are we making these sacrifices for?

terminatornet 5y ago
- a45a33s 5y ago
  yes so lets do our best to make sure they cry as much as possible, especially if its for no justifiable reason what a ridiculous comment
  - terminatornet 5y ago
    Do you think they might be upset when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese because they brought home covid from school or nah?
    - sha256sum 5y ago
      If those parents are as baselessly paranoid as you, they should keep their children home or find other accommodations.
    - remarkEon 5y ago
      >when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese I'm going to be charitable and assume you don't think this actually happens, and are simply using this image for rhetorical effect. But, in the interest of trying to be helpful in yet-another-stupid-covid-thread, here's the CDC's take[1]: >Among 1,228,664 persons who completed primary vaccination during December 2020–October 2021, severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (0.015%) or death (0.0033%) were rare. Risk factors for severe outcomes included age ≥65 years, immunosuppressed, and six other underlying conditions. All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. [Emphasis mine] Now, I'm not saying it's time to stop worrying about this completely. Who knows, maybe a new "worse" variant comes up. But the existing data does not in any way make me worried about getting this, because I'm relatively young and healthy. Make your own judgements on personal risk, but if I were in charge I'd go completely back to normal tomorrow. Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. [1]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm7101a4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm...
      - MattRix 5y ago
        Ok now show the data of what percentage of people have long term side effects from having covid.
        ryathal 5y ago
        Similar to chronic Lyme and not really relevant.
      - terminatornet 5y ago
        Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shouldn't worry about covid anymore. "Hey, I'm young and healthy, why should I worry about it?" feels like the wrong attitude we should be taking as a society. I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid
        noah_buddy 5y ago
        > I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.
  - igetspam 5y ago
    We all do risk assessment differently. My wife is immunocompromised. My kid is four. We justify our decisions by accepting that being cautious is a safe choice. Mommy can get really sick and our kid is too young to get a vaccination.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      And that's fine. You should be allowed to homeschool your kids or enroll them in online learning. But you shouldn't be allowed to force restrictions on everyone else's kids.
- tracker1 5y ago
  Absolutely... so what if more teens are dying of suicide than covid.
  - stonogo 5y ago
    More teens are getting hit by cars than dying of covid, but for some reason it's the teen suicide numbers people always bring up, even though they're not rising. Isn't that odd? https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/04/pandemic-suicide-crisis-unsupported-data/618660/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/04/pandemic-...
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      In the Netherlands they rose 15% in 2021 compared to 2020. But that wouldn’t be in an article from April 2021. Teens aren’t getting hit by cars more due to lockdowns. But the suicide numbers are up due to lockdowns. That’s why they are brought up when talking about how COVID should be ‘managed’.
      - DanBC 5y ago
        Do you have a link to the Netherlands data?
        tinus_hn 5y ago
        https://www.113.nl/actueel/meer-suicides-onder-jongvolwassenen-tussen-20-en-30-jaar https://www.113.nl/actueel/meer-suicides-onder-jongvolwassen...
igetspam 5y ago
Weird. My kid's school had a wild community spread right after the holidays. The owner basically informed me that because one kid's dad is a surgeon and he says it's ok (the same kids mom is an ICU nurse and disagrees completely), then they're not doing anything. In fact, she told me that it wasn't a big deal and everyone was going to get it anyway (her staff was the point of initial infection) so it didn't matter. Basically, chicken pox party rules. My four year old is disappointed but opted to not get covid instead of going to school (along with about half her class). She has chosen to make this sacrifice for herself. Perhaps this is an artifact of how we discuss science and risk.
- sha256sum 5y ago
  Risk = impact x probability. Impact is low for children, probability at this point is quite high. Impact for the immunocompromised is high, as it is for people who have lived full lives. Social distancing works for them. I do not think it works for children, despite being told by the proverbial “science” that it would have no impact on kids. I’m not going to continue asking my child to make sacrifices for a minority of people who can adapt and respond better than he can. As a two year old, he has missed out on enough.
version_five 5y ago
> Who are we making these sacrifices for? A mostly online minority who comes out of the woodwork to shout down the idea of any risk acceptance as equivalent to murder, or any restrictions as no big deal (see the replies to your comment). These people don't even exist in real life, but somehow they are now setting the tone of public discourse and policy. It is literally like if policymakers started reading through the unmoderated comments on news sites in 2005 and started using them as a basis for what we all need to do. We really just need to ignore these people.
- MattRix 5y ago
  Not sure what you’re talking about. Policymakers have been talking to medical professionals and the people who run hospitals, since that’s where the biggest risk is in all this (that hospitals will be pushed well beyond capacity).
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Policymakers have been talking to donors and people that influence their decisions with money, since that is the biggest risk to them in all this. We're supposed to believe that relief checks sent out when COVID numbers were actually lower, but conveniently around elections was about helping people. When elections come up again we'll be hearing about relief checks again. If this was about helping people they would have been sending out masks and had tests kits long ago, and relief wouldn't have stopped.
MSM 5y ago
I see statements like this a lot, and I have to say they don't compute to me at all. They are eerily similar to the "cancel culture" conversation that comes up whenever someone quits out of their own volition. Who is forcing your wife to shut down her day care, and how? If a subset of parents are uncomfortable sending their kids to day care for the foreseeable future, just tell them to come back when they're comfortable. Did your wife forget that it's her daycare?
- sha256sum 5y ago
  To clarify—my wife is not the owner of the daycare. A small subset of parents voiced concerns not about the children, but themselves, and raised voices until the director of the daycare shut it down. I don’t understand your point about cancel culture.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - watwut 5y ago
    > subset of parents voiced concerns not about the children, but themselves You mean like, they did not wanted to get sick themselves and that is somehow horrible from them? Open daycare is less work for parents.

terminatornet 5y ago

a45a33s 5y ago
yes so lets do our best to make sure they cry as much as possible, especially if its for no justifiable reason what a ridiculous comment
- terminatornet 5y ago
  Do you think they might be upset when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese because they brought home covid from school or nah?
  - sha256sum 5y ago
    If those parents are as baselessly paranoid as you, they should keep their children home or find other accommodations.
  - remarkEon 5y ago
    >when their parents lungs turn to swiss cheese I'm going to be charitable and assume you don't think this actually happens, and are simply using this image for rhetorical effect. But, in the interest of trying to be helpful in yet-another-stupid-covid-thread, here's the CDC's take[1]: >Among 1,228,664 persons who completed primary vaccination during December 2020–October 2021, severe COVID-19–associated outcomes (0.015%) or death (0.0033%) were rare. Risk factors for severe outcomes included age ≥65 years, immunosuppressed, and six other underlying conditions. All persons with severe outcomes had at least one risk factor; 78% of persons who died had at least four. [Emphasis mine] Now, I'm not saying it's time to stop worrying about this completely. Who knows, maybe a new "worse" variant comes up. But the existing data does not in any way make me worried about getting this, because I'm relatively young and healthy. Make your own judgements on personal risk, but if I were in charge I'd go completely back to normal tomorrow. Those who are still concerned are free to quarantine of their own free will, but I do not think it's fair to force the youngest to put their lives on pause because some people are still terrified of this. [1]https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm7101a4_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm?s_cid=mm...
    - MattRix 5y ago
      Ok now show the data of what percentage of people have long term side effects from having covid.
      - ryathal 5y ago
        Similar to chronic Lyme and not really relevant.
    - terminatornet 5y ago
      Thanks for not taking the bait on my comment. My only issue with the argument you provided is that the CDC is pointing to comorbidities as a reason why we shouldn't worry about covid anymore. "Hey, I'm young and healthy, why should I worry about it?" feels like the wrong attitude we should be taking as a society. I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid
      - noah_buddy 5y ago
        > I don't want anyone, comorbidities or otherwise to have to suffer the effects of covid This is a childish worldview, not because empathy is wrong or harm minimization is wrong but because you're subjectively presuming that COVID harm is more valid a goal to minimize than: depression and suicide, deaths and bad health due to inactivity, etc, etc. Further, we have no idea of the knock-on effects, perhaps we'll realize in ten years that we've created a demographic time bomb because everyone under the age of 20 right now will be incredibly distrustful of society and government, and choose to not actively contribute. My point is, someone is being harmed by the choices we make, even if COVID deaths go down (but, then again, with all our actions in the US, we've seemingly not avoided that much COVID infection and death, worst of both worlds). >and I think the fact that many hospitals and healthcare workers (at least in the US), seemed to be at their breaking point means now does not feel like the time to try and ignore covid Perhaps, the issue is that we've created an industry where the credentialing is monopolized by special interest groups when we also need that industry to be adequately staffed to absorb shocks like pandemics. If we wanted to alleviate overburdened doctors, we could've eliminated the functional cap on the number of students studying each year to be doctors back in 2020. But, your average doctor would actually oppose that choice, because their incentives are not aligned with society's.
- igetspam 5y ago
  We all do risk assessment differently. My wife is immunocompromised. My kid is four. We justify our decisions by accepting that being cautious is a safe choice. Mommy can get really sick and our kid is too young to get a vaccination.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    And that's fine. You should be allowed to homeschool your kids or enroll them in online learning. But you shouldn't be allowed to force restrictions on everyone else's kids.
tracker1 5y ago
Absolutely... so what if more teens are dying of suicide than covid.
- stonogo 5y ago
  More teens are getting hit by cars than dying of covid, but for some reason it's the teen suicide numbers people always bring up, even though they're not rising. Isn't that odd? https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/04/pandemic-suicide-crisis-unsupported-data/618660/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/04/pandemic-...
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    In the Netherlands they rose 15% in 2021 compared to 2020. But that wouldn’t be in an article from April 2021. Teens aren’t getting hit by cars more due to lockdowns. But the suicide numbers are up due to lockdowns. That’s why they are brought up when talking about how COVID should be ‘managed’.
    - DanBC 5y ago
      Do you have a link to the Netherlands data?
      - tinus_hn 5y ago
        https://www.113.nl/actueel/meer-suicides-onder-jongvolwassenen-tussen-20-en-30-jaar https://www.113.nl/actueel/meer-suicides-onder-jongvolwassen...

igetspam 5y ago

Weird. My kid's school had a wild community spread right after the holidays. The owner basically informed me that because one kid's dad is a surgeon and he says it's ok (the same kids mom is an ICU nurse and disagrees completely), then they're not doing anything. In fact, she told me that it wasn't a big deal and everyone was going to get it anyway (her staff was the point of initial infection) so it didn't matter. Basically, chicken pox party rules. My four year old is disappointed but opted to not get covid instead of going to school (along with about half her class). She has chosen to make this sacrifice for herself. Perhaps this is an artifact of how we discuss science and risk.

sha256sum 5y ago
Risk = impact x probability. Impact is low for children, probability at this point is quite high. Impact for the immunocompromised is high, as it is for people who have lived full lives. Social distancing works for them. I do not think it works for children, despite being told by the proverbial “science” that it would have no impact on kids. I’m not going to continue asking my child to make sacrifices for a minority of people who can adapt and respond better than he can. As a two year old, he has missed out on enough.

version_five 5y ago

> Who are we making these sacrifices for? A mostly online minority who comes out of the woodwork to shout down the idea of any risk acceptance as equivalent to murder, or any restrictions as no big deal (see the replies to your comment). These people don't even exist in real life, but somehow they are now setting the tone of public discourse and policy. It is literally like if policymakers started reading through the unmoderated comments on news sites in 2005 and started using them as a basis for what we all need to do. We really just need to ignore these people.

MattRix 5y ago
Not sure what you’re talking about. Policymakers have been talking to medical professionals and the people who run hospitals, since that’s where the biggest risk is in all this (that hospitals will be pushed well beyond capacity).
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Policymakers have been talking to donors and people that influence their decisions with money, since that is the biggest risk to them in all this. We're supposed to believe that relief checks sent out when COVID numbers were actually lower, but conveniently around elections was about helping people. When elections come up again we'll be hearing about relief checks again. If this was about helping people they would have been sending out masks and had tests kits long ago, and relief wouldn't have stopped.

MSM 5y ago

I see statements like this a lot, and I have to say they don't compute to me at all. They are eerily similar to the "cancel culture" conversation that comes up whenever someone quits out of their own volition. Who is forcing your wife to shut down her day care, and how? If a subset of parents are uncomfortable sending their kids to day care for the foreseeable future, just tell them to come back when they're comfortable. Did your wife forget that it's her daycare?

sha256sum 5y ago
To clarify—my wife is not the owner of the daycare. A small subset of parents voiced concerns not about the children, but themselves, and raised voices until the director of the daycare shut it down. I don’t understand your point about cancel culture.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- watwut 5y ago
  > subset of parents voiced concerns not about the children, but themselves You mean like, they did not wanted to get sick themselves and that is somehow horrible from them? Open daycare is less work for parents.