9 ms·

Excellent write up. Reading a thorough, detailed and open postmortem like this makes me respect the company. They may have issues but it sounds like the type of

by conorh 5y ago

Excellent write up. Reading a thorough, detailed and open postmortem like this makes me respect the company. They may have issues but it sounds like the type of company that (hopefully) does not blame, has open processes, and looks to improve - the type of company I'd want to work for!

digitalengineer 5y ago
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Yeah as long as Roblox is exploiting children they're just flat-out not respectable. This video is a good look at a phenomenon most people are unaware of.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    Players of your game creating content for it is not exploitation. It's just how it works in the gaming world. When I was a kid I spent time creating a minecraft mod that hundreds of people used. Did Mojang or anyone else ever pay me? No. I did it because I wanted to.
    - jawngee 5y ago
      Mojang was likely not selling you on making a mod with promises of making money though. Roblox did that, maybe they still do it.
    - digitalengineer 5y ago
      Please review the video. The problem is not ‘players creating content’.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      The way they're paying kids and what they're telling them is a big part of the problem... they're pushing a lot of the problematic game development industry onto kids that are sometimes as young as 10. If this was free content creation when kids want to do it, then it would be an entirely different story.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- badcc 5y ago
  As one of the top developers on the platform (& 22 y/o, taught myself how to program through Roblox, ~13 years ago), I can say that it seems a majority of us in the developer community are quite unhappy with the image this video portrays. We love Roblox.
  - duxup 5y ago
    My son loves it, I think it is a great way to learn.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dan_pixelflow 5y ago
    That's kind of on Roblox then for not answering their questions transparently.
  - empressplay 5y ago
    I think what bothers me the most is the effective 'pay to play' aspect
- tptacek 5y ago
  This is an interesting debate to have somewhere, but it has nothing to do with this thread. We need to be careful about tangents like this, because it's a lot easier to have an opinion about the cut a platform should take from UGC than it is to have opinion about Raft, channel-based concurrency, and on-disk freelists. If we're not careful, we basically can't have the technical threads, because they're crowded out by the "easier" debate.
  - Forgeties79 5y ago
    You’ve pretty much articulated for me why I’ve been commenting on Reddit less and less frequently.
    - duxup 5y ago
      I loathe the constant riffing on <related and yet nothing indicates it is actually related/> topics. Sadly it is happening here on HN too, < insert the next blurb about corporatism/>
      - Forgeties79 5y ago
        Guess we need to find the next space lol
        duxup 5y ago
        Took long enough to find this place.
  - digitalengineer 5y ago
    True, it is off topic to the postmortem. However, the top comment talks about wanting to work there. I get is is very relevant to see a bigger picture. Personally, I could never work for them. I have a kid and the services and culture they created around their product is sickening and should be made illegal.
    - 5y ago
sam0x17 5y ago
Too bad they exploit young game developers by taking a 75.5% cut of their earnings. Big yikes of a red flag for me. https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/roblox-is-allegedly-exploiting-young-game-developers-3024548 https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/roblox-is-allegedly-exp...
- nostrebored 5y ago
  The idea that these children would otherwise be making their own games is knowingly, generally wrong.
- loceng 5y ago
  The solution is creating a competing platform and offering a better cut. You up for the task? Edit to add: lazy people downvote.
- badcc 5y ago
  This % includes cost of all game server hosting, databases, memory stores, etc. even with millions of concurrents, app store fees, etc. All included in that number. Developer gets effectively pure profit for the sole cost of programming/designing a great game. Taught me how to program, & changed my entire future. Disclosure: My game is one of most popular on the platform.
  - ygjb 5y ago
    And that's a reasonable decision for an adult to make, and if they were targeting an adult developer community. I don't think anyone objects to adults making that choice over say, using Unity or Unreal, and targeting other platforms. In practice, explaining to my son who is growing into an avid developer why I won't a) help him build on Roblox, or b) fund his objectives of advertising and promoting his work in Roblox (by spending Roblox company scrip) on the platform has necessitated helping him to learn and understand what exploitation means and how to recognize it. It's a learning experience for him, and a challenging issue for me as a technically proficient and financially literate parent who actually owns and run businesses related to intellectual property. It's got to be much more painful for parents who lack in any of those three areas.
ehsankia 5y ago
> the type of company I'd want to work for! I recommend watching the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY
- chrislusf 5y ago
  This youtuber needs to make a living. Roblox is great that it built up an ecosystem where people can contribute and get rewarded. It is a positive feedback loop. Not like open source software, where the financial loop is broken. I am pretty sure the Bolt creator did not get anything from HashCorp for his work.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  The first video reveals a more general issue that is not specific to Roblox: child labor in the marketplace of monetized user generated content. There are plenty of under-18 YouTubers. It's not even just online content: these questions came up in the entertainment industry a long time ago, but in that industry at least some safeguards were put in place.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > There are plenty of under-18 YouTubers. ...I guess I always assumed that the ones who were monetized had parental involvement. Does Youtube allow minors to do that themselves? I don't understand how the stuff Robox does (and maybe Youtube?) doesn't run afoul of child labor laws...
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      I'm not sure either. Particularly how, even in the presence of any policies, they could police the system: Does YouTube send someone around to check on the Ryan's World kid and the work environment? Even with child labor policies it doesn't seem like platforms would be much better at managing them than content moderation.

by conorh 5y ago

digitalengineer 5y ago

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Yeah as long as Roblox is exploiting children they're just flat-out not respectable. This video is a good look at a phenomenon most people are unaware of.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- charcircuit 5y ago
  Players of your game creating content for it is not exploitation. It's just how it works in the gaming world. When I was a kid I spent time creating a minecraft mod that hundreds of people used. Did Mojang or anyone else ever pay me? No. I did it because I wanted to.
  - jawngee 5y ago
    Mojang was likely not selling you on making a mod with promises of making money though. Roblox did that, maybe they still do it.
  - digitalengineer 5y ago
    Please review the video. The problem is not ‘players creating content’.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    The way they're paying kids and what they're telling them is a big part of the problem... they're pushing a lot of the problematic game development industry onto kids that are sometimes as young as 10. If this was free content creation when kids want to do it, then it would be an entirely different story.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
badcc 5y ago
As one of the top developers on the platform (& 22 y/o, taught myself how to program through Roblox, ~13 years ago), I can say that it seems a majority of us in the developer community are quite unhappy with the image this video portrays. We love Roblox.
- duxup 5y ago
  My son loves it, I think it is a great way to learn.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dan_pixelflow 5y ago
  That's kind of on Roblox then for not answering their questions transparently.
- empressplay 5y ago
  I think what bothers me the most is the effective 'pay to play' aspect
tptacek 5y ago
This is an interesting debate to have somewhere, but it has nothing to do with this thread. We need to be careful about tangents like this, because it's a lot easier to have an opinion about the cut a platform should take from UGC than it is to have opinion about Raft, channel-based concurrency, and on-disk freelists. If we're not careful, we basically can't have the technical threads, because they're crowded out by the "easier" debate.
- Forgeties79 5y ago
  You’ve pretty much articulated for me why I’ve been commenting on Reddit less and less frequently.
  - duxup 5y ago
    I loathe the constant riffing on <related and yet nothing indicates it is actually related/> topics. Sadly it is happening here on HN too, < insert the next blurb about corporatism/>
    - Forgeties79 5y ago
      Guess we need to find the next space lol
      - duxup 5y ago
        Took long enough to find this place.
- digitalengineer 5y ago
  True, it is off topic to the postmortem. However, the top comment talks about wanting to work there. I get is is very relevant to see a bigger picture. Personally, I could never work for them. I have a kid and the services and culture they created around their product is sickening and should be made illegal.
  - 5y ago

sam0x17 5y ago

Too bad they exploit young game developers by taking a 75.5% cut of their earnings. Big yikes of a red flag for me. https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/roblox-is-allegedly-exploiting-young-game-developers-3024548 https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/roblox-is-allegedly-exp...

nostrebored 5y ago
The idea that these children would otherwise be making their own games is knowingly, generally wrong.
loceng 5y ago
The solution is creating a competing platform and offering a better cut. You up for the task? Edit to add: lazy people downvote.
badcc 5y ago
This % includes cost of all game server hosting, databases, memory stores, etc. even with millions of concurrents, app store fees, etc. All included in that number. Developer gets effectively pure profit for the sole cost of programming/designing a great game. Taught me how to program, & changed my entire future. Disclosure: My game is one of most popular on the platform.
- ygjb 5y ago
  And that's a reasonable decision for an adult to make, and if they were targeting an adult developer community. I don't think anyone objects to adults making that choice over say, using Unity or Unreal, and targeting other platforms. In practice, explaining to my son who is growing into an avid developer why I won't a) help him build on Roblox, or b) fund his objectives of advertising and promoting his work in Roblox (by spending Roblox company scrip) on the platform has necessitated helping him to learn and understand what exploitation means and how to recognize it. It's a learning experience for him, and a challenging issue for me as a technically proficient and financially literate parent who actually owns and run businesses related to intellectual property. It's got to be much more painful for parents who lack in any of those three areas.

ehsankia 5y ago

> the type of company I'd want to work for! I recommend watching the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXlauRB1EQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTMF6xEiAaY

chrislusf 5y ago
This youtuber needs to make a living. Roblox is great that it built up an ecosystem where people can contribute and get rewarded. It is a positive feedback loop. Not like open source software, where the financial loop is broken. I am pretty sure the Bolt creator did not get anything from HashCorp for his work.
ineedasername 5y ago
The first video reveals a more general issue that is not specific to Roblox: child labor in the marketplace of monetized user generated content. There are plenty of under-18 YouTubers. It's not even just online content: these questions came up in the entertainment industry a long time ago, but in that industry at least some safeguards were put in place.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > There are plenty of under-18 YouTubers. ...I guess I always assumed that the ones who were monetized had parental involvement. Does Youtube allow minors to do that themselves? I don't understand how the stuff Robox does (and maybe Youtube?) doesn't run afoul of child labor laws...
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    I'm not sure either. Particularly how, even in the presence of any policies, they could police the system: Does YouTube send someone around to check on the Ryan's World kid and the work environment? Even with child labor policies it doesn't seem like platforms would be much better at managing them than content moderation.