4 ms·
Any messaging platform that wants a phone number gets a hard pass for me. Use Matrix instead.
by ddtaylor 5y ago
Any messaging platform that wants a phone number gets a hard pass for me. Use Matrix instead.
- godelski 5y agoHonest question, how do you make anonymous connections? I'm not talking pseudo-anonymous, but actual anonymous.
- NullPrefix 5y agoddtaylor never mentioned anything about anonymity. Phone numbers are external IDs, which can be stolen
- godelski 5y agoNo, but I think that's the underlying concern between giving out phone numbers. Handing over phone numbers is generally giving away your identity (because it is only pseudo-anonymous). Giving away my username Godelski is also difficult without linking my personal identity because it too is pseudo-anonymous.
- ddtaylor 5y agoIf you're communicating with someone over Tor you're not giving them your phone number. In the past people used XMPP but Matrix is easier and doesn't require manually setting up encryption or OTR extensions.
- zaik 5y agoModern XMPP clients have OMEMO built in and enabled by default.
- godelski 5y agoSo how do we translate this to sharing contact information? I find it very limiting if we can only establish contact over TOR. Maybe I should explain the problem I'm thinking (and I'm honestly curious if there is a solution). Within one app I want to be able to establish contact with multiple types of people without revealing to others those identities (i.e. anonymously). If I use a username then my friends and family that have my phone number can see my username (similar to Snapchat). This also allows for cross-site deanonymization as I can't use that same username on sites like Reddit or Hacker News where I may actually want to establish private or group communication with other users. The problem here is that usernames are persistent and so identities will be linked (even if multiple usernames are allowed). I want to be able to connect friends, family, internet friends, and others without revealing any PII or letting others knowing who I've established contact with. As I see it, there needs to be some zero knowledge contact initialization. How do we establish a (persistent) communication channel through untrusted platforms that do not reveal PII? And more importantly, how do we do this in a manner that is usable by an average person?
- encryptluks2 5y agoAlmost all of Matrix servers require an email if I recall correctly.
- ddtaylor 5y agoElement doesn't require anything like that and is probably the most popular client.
- upofadown 5y agoOK, then use XMPP if the phone number thing is an issue.
- seanw444 5y agoThis is the way. Been in the process of setting up an XMPP server for me, my friends, and my family, to move away from Telegram. I like Telegram from a UI and functionality perspective, but there's too much trust involved. If you're a normal person and don't have the knowledge or drive to set up an XMPP server, I would say Signal is probably one of the best secure chat clients at the moment.
- kadoban 5y agoI don't think you recall correctly, I can't find anywhere that anyone even asked for one in the Matrix space.
- woobilicious 5y agoThe problem with signal and whatsapp's design with phone numbers is that it's used as your public facing ID. if you give over your number to someone, they put it in their address book on their phone and then Facebook finds common friends etc on their phone, and then you're all of a sudden doxed because of other peoples habits. A lot of girls on dating apps prefer snapchat because they can just block the person and there's far smaller chance of getting stalked or harassed. Matrix does not expose your email address or phone number to people you connect with, so you're a lot safer.
- 5y ago