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We have been using WebUSB extensively for 4 years now, and we are extremely happy with the result so far. We make a graphing calculator and we want our users to

by Ecco 5y ago

We have been using WebUSB extensively for 4 years now, and we are extremely happy with the result so far. We make a graphing calculator and we want our users to be able to easily update it. We considered a bunch of options, and WebUSB definitely was the best [1]. This article is a bit old, but since then the situation as become even better: - Windows 10 is being more and more popular, so WebUSB really is a "plug and play" solution on Windows now too - Windows comes with Edge that also has WebUSB support I really with Firefox would include it too! [1] https://www.numworks.com/blog/webusb-firmware-update/ https://www.numworks.com/blog/webusb-firmware-update/

dylan604 5y ago
>Windows 10 is being more and more popular, Hasn't Windows 10 been a thing that's come and gone now in favor of Windows 11?
- Ecco 5y ago
  Oh, well, maybe :) My point was that in Windows <= 7 you needed to install a custom driver to allow WebUSB to work with your specific device. From Windows 8 and up, you can use WebUSB to talk to your device without installing anything at all, which makes it a lot easier for the end users!
  - RReverser 5y ago
    Unfortunately, that's not entirely true. If your device is designed for WebUSB and has its specific descriptor, then yeah, you don't need to change any drivers. However, as mentioned in the article, if it's a "well-known" device, then you still need to use Zadig and override the driver to something like WinUSB.
    - Ecco 5y ago
      Yes indeed. But if, like us, you have full control over how your device operates, then you at least have a path to make it plug'n'play on Windows > 7. Before that, we were out of luck.
      - RReverser 5y ago
        Ah yeah, that should be easier! I was mostly coming from the perspective of trying to get DSLR working in the demo :)
- dljsjr 5y ago
  Windows 11 has made a lot of questionable choices that are leading to a lot of people staying on Windows 10 voluntarily. Windows 11 has additionally made a lot of questionable choices that are forcing a lot of people to stay on Windows 10 involuntarily (e.g. they don't support motherboards w/out TPM's and they don't officially support CPUs that aren't relatively new; e.g. it only "supports" Intel CPUs that are 8th gen or newer regardless of cores/frequency)
  - Kye 5y ago
    "People are staying on [previous Windows] due to problems and questionable choices made with [new Windows]." The claim stays the same, but the version keeps incrementing. I'm not convinced this is a thing in meaningful numbers.
    - franga2000 5y ago
      The numbers are quite easily available to check. On Steam, Win11 is at 10% vs Win10 at 81% (december 2021). Look at how long Win7 stuck around (it's still above 3%!) and back then, Win10 had actual benefits over Win7. This time, the upgrade is a regression across the board.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Yeah, 11 is currently just a buggy beta for some bad UI changes. That will hopefully change in the future, but right now it has basically nothing on its feature list to counteract the problems. If you don't use WSL2 then... there's better HDR support sometimes? And the android app thing doesn't count until it's in release builds.
      - NoahKAndrews 5y ago
        For starters, Windows 11 has vastly better search, nicer UI, and improvements to multi-monitor support. I have no regrets about updating.
        brokenmachine 5y ago
- sorenjan 5y ago
  Steam hardware survey from December 2021 shows 81.74% Windows 10 64 bit, 10.15% Windows 11 64 bit. I would guess that Windows 11 is overrepresented among Steam users compared to Windows users in general, but that's just a guess. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
magicalhippo 5y ago
ESPHome uses WebSerial[2] to flash microcontrollers via the browser, saving the user from having to install a whole development environment and whatnot to do the initial firmware upload. Super slick from a user POV, just connect the device via USB cable and hit the flash button. I admit I was a bit skeptical to all this, but having just tried it I must admit it was very, very convenient. The ESPHome instance was running as a container on my Home Assistant device, again a simple one-click install. [1]: https://esphome.io/ https://esphome.io/ [2]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_...
bserge 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
worldmerge 5y ago
That's super cool! WebUSB is something I'm really interested in learning and WebBluetooth. Cross platform apps that need sensor access is a bit of a pain and the web seems like a no brainer to solve that. Also cool to see a competitor to Texas Instruments. I'm in the USA and had to get TI calculators for classes. > Firefox would include it too! That'd be nice.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
adolph 5y ago
Thank you for linking to NumWorks. Everything about that product seems of extraordinary high quality. The code, the open hardware build specs, very nice!
baxuz 5y ago
How come your Windows use case didn't require Zadig? I couldn't get any USB device to work via WebUSB without it.
- NoahKAndrews 5y ago
  They probably use WCID, which is a mechanism for devices to tell Windows that they are compatible with the generic WinUSB driver. Zadig is useful for older versions of windows, non-WCID devices, and when you want to override that auto-specified driver. Here's more information from the author of Zadig: https://github.com/pbatard/libwdi/wiki/WCID-Devices https://github.com/pbatard/libwdi/wiki/WCID-Devices
- RReverser 5y ago
  They mentioned below that they have their own devices they can control. As I understand it, for those kinds of IoT usecases the workflow is easier because, instead of overriding the driver defined by the OS, you can define WebUSB-compatible descriptor that will "just work" across all platforms.

by Ecco 5y ago

dylan604 5y ago

>Windows 10 is being more and more popular, Hasn't Windows 10 been a thing that's come and gone now in favor of Windows 11?

Ecco 5y ago
Oh, well, maybe :) My point was that in Windows <= 7 you needed to install a custom driver to allow WebUSB to work with your specific device. From Windows 8 and up, you can use WebUSB to talk to your device without installing anything at all, which makes it a lot easier for the end users!
- RReverser 5y ago
  Unfortunately, that's not entirely true. If your device is designed for WebUSB and has its specific descriptor, then yeah, you don't need to change any drivers. However, as mentioned in the article, if it's a "well-known" device, then you still need to use Zadig and override the driver to something like WinUSB.
  - Ecco 5y ago
    Yes indeed. But if, like us, you have full control over how your device operates, then you at least have a path to make it plug'n'play on Windows > 7. Before that, we were out of luck.
    - RReverser 5y ago
      Ah yeah, that should be easier! I was mostly coming from the perspective of trying to get DSLR working in the demo :)
dljsjr 5y ago
Windows 11 has made a lot of questionable choices that are leading to a lot of people staying on Windows 10 voluntarily. Windows 11 has additionally made a lot of questionable choices that are forcing a lot of people to stay on Windows 10 involuntarily (e.g. they don't support motherboards w/out TPM's and they don't officially support CPUs that aren't relatively new; e.g. it only "supports" Intel CPUs that are 8th gen or newer regardless of cores/frequency)
- Kye 5y ago
  "People are staying on [previous Windows] due to problems and questionable choices made with [new Windows]." The claim stays the same, but the version keeps incrementing. I'm not convinced this is a thing in meaningful numbers.
  - franga2000 5y ago
    The numbers are quite easily available to check. On Steam, Win11 is at 10% vs Win10 at 81% (december 2021). Look at how long Win7 stuck around (it's still above 3%!) and back then, Win10 had actual benefits over Win7. This time, the upgrade is a regression across the board.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Yeah, 11 is currently just a buggy beta for some bad UI changes. That will hopefully change in the future, but right now it has basically nothing on its feature list to counteract the problems. If you don't use WSL2 then... there's better HDR support sometimes? And the android app thing doesn't count until it's in release builds.
    - NoahKAndrews 5y ago
      For starters, Windows 11 has vastly better search, nicer UI, and improvements to multi-monitor support. I have no regrets about updating.
      - brokenmachine 5y ago
sorenjan 5y ago
Steam hardware survey from December 2021 shows 81.74% Windows 10 64 bit, 10.15% Windows 11 64 bit. I would guess that Windows 11 is overrepresented among Steam users compared to Windows users in general, but that's just a guess. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...

magicalhippo 5y ago

ESPHome uses WebSerial[2] to flash microcontrollers via the browser, saving the user from having to install a whole development environment and whatnot to do the initial firmware upload. Super slick from a user POV, just connect the device via USB cable and hit the flash button. I admit I was a bit skeptical to all this, but having just tried it I must admit it was very, very convenient. The ESPHome instance was running as a container on my Home Assistant device, again a simple one-click install. [1]: https://esphome.io/ https://esphome.io/ [2]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Serial_...

bserge 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

worldmerge 5y ago

That's super cool! WebUSB is something I'm really interested in learning and WebBluetooth. Cross platform apps that need sensor access is a bit of a pain and the web seems like a no brainer to solve that. Also cool to see a competitor to Texas Instruments. I'm in the USA and had to get TI calculators for classes. > Firefox would include it too! That'd be nice.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

adolph 5y ago

Thank you for linking to NumWorks. Everything about that product seems of extraordinary high quality. The code, the open hardware build specs, very nice!

baxuz 5y ago

How come your Windows use case didn't require Zadig? I couldn't get any USB device to work via WebUSB without it.

NoahKAndrews 5y ago
They probably use WCID, which is a mechanism for devices to tell Windows that they are compatible with the generic WinUSB driver. Zadig is useful for older versions of windows, non-WCID devices, and when you want to override that auto-specified driver. Here's more information from the author of Zadig: https://github.com/pbatard/libwdi/wiki/WCID-Devices https://github.com/pbatard/libwdi/wiki/WCID-Devices
RReverser 5y ago
They mentioned below that they have their own devices they can control. As I understand it, for those kinds of IoT usecases the workflow is easier because, instead of overriding the driver defined by the OS, you can define WebUSB-compatible descriptor that will "just work" across all platforms.