5 ms·

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. In all my (many) years, I

by caeril 5y ago

Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. In all my (many) years, I have found no better path to becoming socially acceptable (even likable) to neurotypicals/extroverts than 3-4 shots of vodka. This is an unfortunate, but very real fact for many of us. I've heard good things about Phenibut, but (1) it's very difficult to obtain, and (2) it is also apparently habit-forming.

the_only_law 5y ago
I’ve recently taken to trying Kava, which seems to be relatively popular among people trying to quit alcohol/benzos/etc. Supposedly it also helps with disinhibition and socialization, but admittedly I haven’t tried it in a social setting so I’m not sure myself. It certainly does relax me and chill me out though without the dumbing down of alcohol. Of course, by the things I’ve seen in those “pop-medical” sites that fill Google search results, you’d think it’s much more dangerous than alcohol.
- jsonne 5y ago
  Kava is great and for sure is wonderful in a social setting. I've taken to Kava recently and enjoy it casually (1 to 2 times a week) as its a shorter duration than alcohol, I get no hangover, and while I relax I don't lose my inhibitions. I also have drank it at a kava bar and find it to be an enjoyable social experience where the atmosphere is very bar like. I'm not totally against alcohol but Kava for sure is underrated and scratches many of the same itches as it were. Highly recommended.
- pmlamotte 5y ago
  Can definitely second kava. I went to a kava bar several times a few months ago and found it to be a great alcohol alternative. It also filled the niche of being a place where the atmosphere was more similar to a cafe so I could read a book or work on something in isolation, but without the downside of caffeine where you can't do that in the evening without ruining sleep quality. The social effects were definitely there. Like you said, the crowd was largely people trying to quit or who had quit alcohol or benzos along with a fair amount of neurodivergent people. Being able to set aside some of my social anxiety and talk with them is part of what led to me getting assessed and diagnosed for autism recently. The grandparent comment also mentioned phenibut which I find even more enjoyable, but like they said it can be habit forming and has a tolerance build up that limits safe use to once or twice a week.
- tsol 5y ago
  I love kava. I used to use a lot of substances when I was younger, but quit for health reasons. Still, I get bothered by stress pretty often. Kava at the end of a long day is exactly what I need. Bonus points that there's no habituation.
Tenoke 5y ago
GHB is probably an even better replacement than Phenibut as it's safer, has less of a hangover/rebound and can be used more often to no detriment but it has a worse reputation, needs to be dosed correctly (taking twice the dose accidentally means you pass out for 4 hours), and if you for some reason end up using it 24/7 the addiction is as bad to kick as with benzos or alcohol.
perardi 5y ago
Oh-ho, no, not in my experience. I used to be devastatingly introverted. Alcohol helped, but it’s nothing compared to GHB or MDMA. Ecstasy will give you the gift of gab like you can’t believe. minor edit: I should say I am ignoring the context of where it’s acceptable to do such things. You probably shouldn’t do G at Christmas with the in-laws. (Though our quarantine Christmas this year with friends…) I’m just making a bit of a pedantic bit that there are club drugs out there that are pretty wild in how they can open you up socially.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- carnitine 5y ago
  You can drink alcohol after work with colleagues though. It’s far more helpful socially than party drugs due to its ubiquity.
  - perardi 5y ago
    I’ll grant you that 7 years of working remotely have slightly warped my idea of what people do at office parties.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  sure, but its not really socially acceptable to drop X at the company happy hour. also mistakenly falling into a G Hole at the local BBQ is generally frowned upon. Having a couple beers is unlikely to lead to career or social suicide.
  - monkmartinez 5y ago
    IF the "few beers" turns into ONE too many, it will lead to the same career and social suicide. Driving under the influence, fighting, lewd acts, etc... I live in a state where Weed is legal. I don't see people high decide to fight everyone at the party. I have seen this with alcohol more than I care to admit.
- 5y ago
nradov 5y ago
There are also many people who self medicate with opioids to treat chronic depression. I certainly wouldn't recommend that depressed people try opioids, but empirically it seems to be effective in reducing symptoms for some patients at least temporarily.
hnuser847 5y ago
> Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. I completely disagree and I think you should consider the possibility that alcohol is creating your anxiety in the first place. My years-long struggle with social anxiety disappeared after I decided to quit drinking for good.
clsec 5y ago
Speaking from experience, as an older guy with crippling social anxiety and 30+ yrs of alcohol use/abuse, I can say that it superficially helps with social anxiety. However, it does not get to the root cause(s) of said anxiety. Professional help is needed to find and work on fixing those. The side effects, physical and psychological, of regular alcohol consumption are far worse than living with social anxiety. I also think it's unhealthy to try to fix one's psychological issues with drugs/medications without also looking at and trying to fix the reasons for their use in the first place. Also, I now have to undergo quite a few yearly medical tests to keep an eye on my body after years of self medicating for my extreme social anxiety. FWIW, I don't say these things as a teetotaler. I believe in harm reduction.
InitialLastName 5y ago
> it is also apparently habit-forming. I hear that vodka shots also have this property.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by caeril 5y ago

the_only_law 5y ago

I’ve recently taken to trying Kava, which seems to be relatively popular among people trying to quit alcohol/benzos/etc. Supposedly it also helps with disinhibition and socialization, but admittedly I haven’t tried it in a social setting so I’m not sure myself. It certainly does relax me and chill me out though without the dumbing down of alcohol. Of course, by the things I’ve seen in those “pop-medical” sites that fill Google search results, you’d think it’s much more dangerous than alcohol.

jsonne 5y ago
Kava is great and for sure is wonderful in a social setting. I've taken to Kava recently and enjoy it casually (1 to 2 times a week) as its a shorter duration than alcohol, I get no hangover, and while I relax I don't lose my inhibitions. I also have drank it at a kava bar and find it to be an enjoyable social experience where the atmosphere is very bar like. I'm not totally against alcohol but Kava for sure is underrated and scratches many of the same itches as it were. Highly recommended.
pmlamotte 5y ago
Can definitely second kava. I went to a kava bar several times a few months ago and found it to be a great alcohol alternative. It also filled the niche of being a place where the atmosphere was more similar to a cafe so I could read a book or work on something in isolation, but without the downside of caffeine where you can't do that in the evening without ruining sleep quality. The social effects were definitely there. Like you said, the crowd was largely people trying to quit or who had quit alcohol or benzos along with a fair amount of neurodivergent people. Being able to set aside some of my social anxiety and talk with them is part of what led to me getting assessed and diagnosed for autism recently. The grandparent comment also mentioned phenibut which I find even more enjoyable, but like they said it can be habit forming and has a tolerance build up that limits safe use to once or twice a week.
tsol 5y ago
I love kava. I used to use a lot of substances when I was younger, but quit for health reasons. Still, I get bothered by stress pretty often. Kava at the end of a long day is exactly what I need. Bonus points that there's no habituation.

Tenoke 5y ago

GHB is probably an even better replacement than Phenibut as it's safer, has less of a hangover/rebound and can be used more often to no detriment but it has a worse reputation, needs to be dosed correctly (taking twice the dose accidentally means you pass out for 4 hours), and if you for some reason end up using it 24/7 the addiction is as bad to kick as with benzos or alcohol.

perardi 5y ago

Oh-ho, no, not in my experience. I used to be devastatingly introverted. Alcohol helped, but it’s nothing compared to GHB or MDMA. Ecstasy will give you the gift of gab like you can’t believe. minor edit: I should say I am ignoring the context of where it’s acceptable to do such things. You probably shouldn’t do G at Christmas with the in-laws. (Though our quarantine Christmas this year with friends…) I’m just making a bit of a pedantic bit that there are club drugs out there that are pretty wild in how they can open you up socially.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
carnitine 5y ago
You can drink alcohol after work with colleagues though. It’s far more helpful socially than party drugs due to its ubiquity.
- perardi 5y ago
  I’ll grant you that 7 years of working remotely have slightly warped my idea of what people do at office parties.
wonderwonder 5y ago
sure, but its not really socially acceptable to drop X at the company happy hour. also mistakenly falling into a G Hole at the local BBQ is generally frowned upon. Having a couple beers is unlikely to lead to career or social suicide.
- monkmartinez 5y ago
  IF the "few beers" turns into ONE too many, it will lead to the same career and social suicide. Driving under the influence, fighting, lewd acts, etc... I live in a state where Weed is legal. I don't see people high decide to fight everyone at the party. I have seen this with alcohol more than I care to admit.
5y ago

nradov 5y ago

There are also many people who self medicate with opioids to treat chronic depression. I certainly wouldn't recommend that depressed people try opioids, but empirically it seems to be effective in reducing symptoms for some patients at least temporarily.

hnuser847 5y ago

> Counterpoint: alcohol is one of the best drugs on the planet for anyone on the spectrum of introversion to crippling social anxiety. I completely disagree and I think you should consider the possibility that alcohol is creating your anxiety in the first place. My years-long struggle with social anxiety disappeared after I decided to quit drinking for good.

clsec 5y ago

Speaking from experience, as an older guy with crippling social anxiety and 30+ yrs of alcohol use/abuse, I can say that it superficially helps with social anxiety. However, it does not get to the root cause(s) of said anxiety. Professional help is needed to find and work on fixing those. The side effects, physical and psychological, of regular alcohol consumption are far worse than living with social anxiety. I also think it's unhealthy to try to fix one's psychological issues with drugs/medications without also looking at and trying to fix the reasons for their use in the first place. Also, I now have to undergo quite a few yearly medical tests to keep an eye on my body after years of self medicating for my extreme social anxiety. FWIW, I don't say these things as a teetotaler. I believe in harm reduction.

InitialLastName 5y ago

> it is also apparently habit-forming. I hear that vodka shots also have this property.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]