4 ms·

I am a non westerners relatively young person. I am in a western country to only make money. When I retire I will go back to Asia. Western country like USA is

I am a non westerners relatively young person. I am in a western country to only make money. When I retire I will go back to Asia. Western country like USA is good for competition and individualism and you can make a lot of money because of it, and then you bring the money back to Asia, and retire in Asia, where everything is cheaper and community is stronger than in western country.

TheGigaChad 5y ago
refurb 5y ago
As someone living in Asia, cheaper but you get what you pay for.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
I think about this plan a lot. It feels like a way to "hack the system". And yet, if everyone does it, then Asian countries will also end up with no community -- because all the young people will be in the West. Already, rural parts of China and Thailand are depopulating as young people go to cities. The same in Eastern Europe. And the same, come to think of it, in the United States. What were once small towns and farming communities are now empty save for a Dollar Store and a few 50-year-olds. This would be a global-scale version of that same phenomenon. The other issue is that this plan probably means you'll only be able to have a small family, simply because you're starting later. Over time that would also break the model. Hard for the kids to care for grandma when there are as many grandmas as kids. But for an individual it seems like a decent plan. Except -- Well, it's a little more workable for a man, since in principle, if he's lucky, he can marry a younger woman and still have a family. But that has problems: An equal relationship is less likely, and she will be left a widow at some point. It probably just won't be as good a marriage as if you'd married your highschool sweetheart. If you want to do geo- and cultural- arbitrage, it seems like, while harder to pull off, it might be better to do remote work and go to a traditional/low-cost country when you're younger.
- sidpatil 5y ago
  > And yet, if everyone does it, then Asian countries will also end up with no community -- because all the young people will be in the West. Not to mention the impact on prices in those countries. Over the long term, lots of young people starting their careers (i.e. low net worth) would leave the country to seek good jobs abroad, and only return at the end of their successful careers (i.e. high net worth). All that extra wealth would drive up prices, making it even harder on locals. > If you want to do geo- and cultural- arbitrage, it seems like, while harder to pull off, it might be better to do remote work and go to a traditional/low-cost country when you're younger. Wasn't this the whole idea of "digital nomadism" which seemed to be popular in the 2000s? Now that remote work is popular, we'll probably see a resurgence.
  - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
    > Wasn't this the whole idea of "digital nomadism" which seemed to be popular in the 2000s? Now that remote work is popular, we'll probably see a resurgence. Yeah, could be. That said, the same force that allows remote work (COVID) also prevents travel, or at least makes it less attractive. We'll have to see if the remote work stays after the COVID leaves. Also, don't they all just go to Bali anyway? ;-) There is also a question of -- are you actually becoming part of the community you're joining? For example, I hear a lot of guys (it seems to be mostly guys) who've gone to Puerto Rico have encountered a ton of resentment. It doesn't help that many fit a "crypto bro" stereotype (or is that just the media reports?). One of the more positive versions of this (though not without problems) has been the "back to Africa" movement. Although there's sometimes resentment, mostly I get the impression that people are received well (also, there's a choice: racism here or resentment there?). And, the thing that makes me feel a little more positively about it than "nomadism" is that this is done with an intention to stay, integrate, and invest. (I also think some of the negative reaction comes from negative perceptions of Western culture. When the arrivals turn out to be chaste respectful people who are not on drugs, I suspect opinions change. That was certainly the case in India for a while, where it was unfairly assumed that Americans were worthless hippies who slept around too much. Well, India did get its share of hippies, so I can understand...) I guess you also do see these things happen in an idiosyncratic way, usually as a result of marriage. For example, a European web developer who meets a Jamaican and moves there to be closer to her family, stuff like that. > Not to mention the impact on prices in those countries. ...but yeah, it only works if it isn't popular.
decafninja 5y ago
I am a Korean-American US citizen. My wife is a South Korean citizen. Initially we thought it was natural for her to gain US citizenship, but we've now decided otherwise - both for reasons similar to what you mentioned, and also because the US seems to be in a downward spiral politically. Also I've witnessed first hand the Korean healthcare system at work via my wife, and it is by far not only less expensive, but also (maybe more importantly) less complicated. It's not perfect, but for the average person I'd greatly prefer it to the mess we have in the US. Of course, South Korea also has its share of political issues both internally and externally. So it has also crossed our mind that perhaps we ought to think of obtaining citizenship or residency in a third country for when the "earning period" chapter of my life starts to close.

TheGigaChad 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

As someone living in Asia, cheaper but you get what you pay for.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

I think about this plan a lot. It feels like a way to "hack the system". And yet, if everyone does it, then Asian countries will also end up with no community -- because all the young people will be in the West. Already, rural parts of China and Thailand are depopulating as young people go to cities. The same in Eastern Europe. And the same, come to think of it, in the United States. What were once small towns and farming communities are now empty save for a Dollar Store and a few 50-year-olds. This would be a global-scale version of that same phenomenon. The other issue is that this plan probably means you'll only be able to have a small family, simply because you're starting later. Over time that would also break the model. Hard for the kids to care for grandma when there are as many grandmas as kids. But for an individual it seems like a decent plan. Except -- Well, it's a little more workable for a man, since in principle, if he's lucky, he can marry a younger woman and still have a family. But that has problems: An equal relationship is less likely, and she will be left a widow at some point. It probably just won't be as good a marriage as if you'd married your highschool sweetheart. If you want to do geo- and cultural- arbitrage, it seems like, while harder to pull off, it might be better to do remote work and go to a traditional/low-cost country when you're younger.

sidpatil 5y ago
> And yet, if everyone does it, then Asian countries will also end up with no community -- because all the young people will be in the West. Not to mention the impact on prices in those countries. Over the long term, lots of young people starting their careers (i.e. low net worth) would leave the country to seek good jobs abroad, and only return at the end of their successful careers (i.e. high net worth). All that extra wealth would drive up prices, making it even harder on locals. > If you want to do geo- and cultural- arbitrage, it seems like, while harder to pull off, it might be better to do remote work and go to a traditional/low-cost country when you're younger. Wasn't this the whole idea of "digital nomadism" which seemed to be popular in the 2000s? Now that remote work is popular, we'll probably see a resurgence.
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  > Wasn't this the whole idea of "digital nomadism" which seemed to be popular in the 2000s? Now that remote work is popular, we'll probably see a resurgence. Yeah, could be. That said, the same force that allows remote work (COVID) also prevents travel, or at least makes it less attractive. We'll have to see if the remote work stays after the COVID leaves. Also, don't they all just go to Bali anyway? ;-) There is also a question of -- are you actually becoming part of the community you're joining? For example, I hear a lot of guys (it seems to be mostly guys) who've gone to Puerto Rico have encountered a ton of resentment. It doesn't help that many fit a "crypto bro" stereotype (or is that just the media reports?). One of the more positive versions of this (though not without problems) has been the "back to Africa" movement. Although there's sometimes resentment, mostly I get the impression that people are received well (also, there's a choice: racism here or resentment there?). And, the thing that makes me feel a little more positively about it than "nomadism" is that this is done with an intention to stay, integrate, and invest. (I also think some of the negative reaction comes from negative perceptions of Western culture. When the arrivals turn out to be chaste respectful people who are not on drugs, I suspect opinions change. That was certainly the case in India for a while, where it was unfairly assumed that Americans were worthless hippies who slept around too much. Well, India did get its share of hippies, so I can understand...) I guess you also do see these things happen in an idiosyncratic way, usually as a result of marriage. For example, a European web developer who meets a Jamaican and moves there to be closer to her family, stuff like that. > Not to mention the impact on prices in those countries. ...but yeah, it only works if it isn't popular.

decafninja 5y ago

I am a Korean-American US citizen. My wife is a South Korean citizen. Initially we thought it was natural for her to gain US citizenship, but we've now decided otherwise - both for reasons similar to what you mentioned, and also because the US seems to be in a downward spiral politically. Also I've witnessed first hand the Korean healthcare system at work via my wife, and it is by far not only less expensive, but also (maybe more importantly) less complicated. It's not perfect, but for the average person I'd greatly prefer it to the mess we have in the US. Of course, South Korea also has its share of political issues both internally and externally. So it has also crossed our mind that perhaps we ought to think of obtaining citizenship or residency in a third country for when the "earning period" chapter of my life starts to close.