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Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

by ct0 5y ago

nradov 5y ago
Yes
chopin 5y ago
I would think generally yes. It's the Pilot's job to supervise the autopilot.
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
Yes, Pilots are responsible for the plane. Even if the autopilot messes up, there is a reason there are multiple pilots in the cockpit, they are supposed to take control.
hwers 5y ago
It's probably evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on how much the investigation determines it was caused by technical issues and pilot negligence.
daniel-thompson 5y ago
Yes. The pilot in command is ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap6_section_1.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html... for more information. Having said that, aircraft pilots are very highly trained relative to automobile drivers and must pass periodic medical and proficiency exams to maintain their flight status. Whereas anyone (loosely speaking) can buy a Tesla and just start driving it.
WA 5y ago
Do autopilots in planes "fly themselves no human input at all"? Because that's what Teslas are doing since 2016, according to Elon Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729
- neurobashing 5y ago
  The very short story is, one member of the crew maintains control of the aircraft (hands on yoke and throttles, maintains general situational awareness) while the other enters the data into the autopilot (set altitude to X, bearing Y, at speed Z). The aircraft then executes the maneuver(s) entered, while under supervision of a human.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
smoyer 5y ago
In the U.S., the FAA provides quite a few regulations that specifically forbid the use of autopilot in certain circumstances (e.g. "Autopilot - Minimum Altitudes for Use [0]). More over, the FAA recognizes that extensive use of autopilot functions can degrade a pilot's skills and has issued a SAFO [1] with guidance for aircraft operations and pilot training. [0]https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part135-93-FAR.shtml https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part135-93-FAR.shtml [1] https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2013/SAFO13002.pdf https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_op...
ta988 5y ago
Yes, but autopilot in plane is much much different. It is not about detecting and avoiding other planes, it is about following a route and recovering from various flight situations. You don't have an autopilot for when they are on the ground.
imglorp 5y ago
U.S. CFR Title 14, Part 1, Section 1.1 defines the duties of Pilot in Command, legal term: [...] Has the final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight. [...] That means PIC can delegate flying to their mom if they like but they are responsible. If they delegate to hardware and it misbehaves, they are still responsible.
stefan_ 5y ago
Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot? Airlines are sued all the time over crashes and right now Boeing is being sued over crashes from MCAS, even though there is a magic combination the pilots could have pressed to override it. Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at - telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record.
- daniel-thompson 5y ago
  > Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot? It's not moot because most occurrences don't result in death. Occurrences are investigated both to establish fault (which can and does sometimes result in pilots losing their flight status and/or jobs), and from a safety perspective to try to prevent or minimize future occurrences. > Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at This is not true. Most accidents and incidents are caused at least in part by pilot error. - https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/why-planes-crash/human-factors-in-aviation/ https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/why-planes-... - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12136068_Factors_associated_with_pilot_error_in_aviation_crashes https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12136068_Factors_as... - https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_2_07/article_03_2.html https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_... > telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record. This is not true at all, at least when it comes to aircraft pilots. As anyone who's been to flight school knows, about 90% of the curriculum could reasonably be described as "telling the pilot to do X or Y to mitigate risk". And it works! There are millions of flights every year, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of them are safe (because pilots actively & successfully mitigate risk).

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

by ct0 5y ago

Do we hold pilots accountable when the plane in on autopilot? Genuinely curious.

nradov 5y ago

Yes

chopin 5y ago

I would think generally yes. It's the Pilot's job to supervise the autopilot.

NikolaeVarius 5y ago

Yes, Pilots are responsible for the plane. Even if the autopilot messes up, there is a reason there are multiple pilots in the cockpit, they are supposed to take control.

hwers 5y ago

It's probably evaluated on a case-by-case basis depending on how much the investigation determines it was caused by technical issues and pilot negligence.

daniel-thompson 5y ago

Yes. The pilot in command is ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft. See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap6_section_1.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html... for more information. Having said that, aircraft pilots are very highly trained relative to automobile drivers and must pass periodic medical and proficiency exams to maintain their flight status. Whereas anyone (loosely speaking) can buy a Tesla and just start driving it.

WA 5y ago

Do autopilots in planes "fly themselves no human input at all"? Because that's what Teslas are doing since 2016, according to Elon Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/789019145853513729

neurobashing 5y ago
The very short story is, one member of the crew maintains control of the aircraft (hands on yoke and throttles, maintains general situational awareness) while the other enters the data into the autopilot (set altitude to X, bearing Y, at speed Z). The aircraft then executes the maneuver(s) entered, while under supervision of a human.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

smoyer 5y ago

In the U.S., the FAA provides quite a few regulations that specifically forbid the use of autopilot in certain circumstances (e.g. "Autopilot - Minimum Altitudes for Use [0]). More over, the FAA recognizes that extensive use of autopilot functions can degrade a pilot's skills and has issued a SAFO [1] with guidance for aircraft operations and pilot training. [0]https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part135-93-FAR.shtml https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part135-93-FAR.shtml [1] https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2013/SAFO13002.pdf https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_op...

ta988 5y ago

Yes, but autopilot in plane is much much different. It is not about detecting and avoiding other planes, it is about following a route and recovering from various flight situations. You don't have an autopilot for when they are on the ground.

imglorp 5y ago

U.S. CFR Title 14, Part 1, Section 1.1 defines the duties of Pilot in Command, legal term: [...] Has the final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight. [...] That means PIC can delegate flying to their mom if they like but they are responsible. If they delegate to hardware and it misbehaves, they are still responsible.

stefan_ 5y ago

Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot? Airlines are sued all the time over crashes and right now Boeing is being sued over crashes from MCAS, even though there is a magic combination the pilots could have pressed to override it. Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at - telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record.

daniel-thompson 5y ago
> Well the pilots are dead in a lot of incidents so it's kinda moot? It's not moot because most occurrences don't result in death. Occurrences are investigated both to establish fault (which can and does sometimes result in pilots losing their flight status and/or jobs), and from a safety perspective to try to prevent or minimize future occurrences. > Generally, in any kind of crash investigation the pilots are one of the least important things to look at This is not true. Most accidents and incidents are caused at least in part by pilot error. - https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/why-planes-crash/human-factors-in-aviation/ https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/aviation-accident/why-planes-... - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12136068_Factors_associated_with_pilot_error_in_aviation_crashes https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12136068_Factors_as... - https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_2_07/article_03_2.html https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/articles/qtr_... > telling people to do X or Y to mitigate some risk has a terrible track record. This is not true at all, at least when it comes to aircraft pilots. As anyone who's been to flight school knows, about 90% of the curriculum could reasonably be described as "telling the pilot to do X or Y to mitigate risk". And it works! There are millions of flights every year, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of them are safe (because pilots actively & successfully mitigate risk).