10 ms·

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us

Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. Now many of us are software developers here on HN, so I understand the need to charge money for software. But I paid full price for 1Password6 years ago and I haven’t needed any updates to continue using it. Now the company refuses to sell a non-subscription service version and I’m suppose to be thankful that they’re “only” charging $3 a month? These types of subscriptions are purely highway robbery. I’d be happy to pay for upgrades if software needs to be updated to remain compatible with browser or OS updates, but let me decide whether I feel it’s necessary.

BoorishBears 5y ago
> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it. Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. Some software you use exists because people work on it for free, some exists because massive ad-tech companies defiling the globe's privacy fund it, etc. - Paid subscriptions is one of those types, and as far as paid subscriptions go 3 dollars a month is bottom of the barrel. Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look? Many MANY companies have tried one time payments and died over it. People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once. A tech forum isn't exactly where to get perspective on that for example... 1Password clearly tried the one time payment model, and if I had to imagine for a second, I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes. Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit...
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. It does. But if we're talking about just the software, I don't think updates to an already-finished password manager are worth nearly that much. Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    > already-finished password manager No such thing. If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. > Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years. Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. Feature-complete, then. It needs updates but it doesn't need significant development work. > Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse. They make most of their money off new computers at an even lower price. Adding candy crush and more tracking came after they switched to making upgrades free, and I really doubt it's worth $100 a seat. They made home windows into a loss-leader. If there was a choice to pay to remove those things I bet they'd make somewhat more money. But it's not where their big revenue streams are so they don't care.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        Again, software development companies have tried the "rely on people being willing to pay upfront for updates" and failed repeatedly Once you get there it doesn't matter if your goal was features or updates, you're talking about closing doors and laying people off. So I'd much rather 1password do exactly what they did and pivot off a failing model. > They made home windows into a loss-leader. That's great, and I'm sure when 1Password has a 100B war chest to sit on they'll think about doing the same. Most people would consider turning your flagship into a loss-leader for other parts of the company not exactly the goal of the average software shop.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
- kjreact 5y ago
  > Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? By your logic there’s nothing wrong with any other app asking for their own monthly toll when you feel that 1Password is justified in doing so. > Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look? But 1Password never needed to be a subscription in the first place. I am still able to use 1Password6 to this day without any updates for the past 3 years. That’s $108 for software that I paid $30 originally. > People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once. If they were truly worried about losing customers unwilling to pay upfront they’d offer both options. By forcing everyone to go subscription they see that they could have milked me for an additional $78+ without doing any work at all. > I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes. Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit… I don’t see why I should feel inclined to pay more to support some edge case users. I didn’t bemoan 1Password when they didn’t provide an update after Safari changed their API. I continued using the software in Firefox and Chrome. Am I considered an “expensive user” simply because I’m unwilling to pay their toll? I haven’t gotten any support from them for the past 3 years. We live in a capitalistic world and 1Password is free to go with whatever pricing model works for them to maximize their revenues. Likewise, I am free to warn people the poor value that they’re receiving with the current subscription model. I don’t have to aspire to be a reoccurring revenue stream to boost their $6.8B valuation…
- jjav 5y ago
  > People are allergic to upfront payment. What? People in general are clamoring and highly prefer one-time payment. Approximately nobody wants a recurring charge every month. Companies are pushing and forcing subscriptions only because the recurring revenue stream is what investors want to see. People don't want it.
  - liujy 5y ago
    Anecdotally, if you asked me to pay $30 up-front for a password manager, I would just keep using the same minimum-effort password for every site like I was doing a few years ago. Data-wise, we know that the largest drop-off during customer acquisition is when they have to input payment information. IME most people don’t want to pay for anything at all. Which is partly why the subscription model works — try it for free for a month so you can understand the value proposition. Afterward, you’re more willing to pay for it.
bigiain 5y ago
> if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars Can I interest you in a cloud license for ls? It’s clearly critical you your day to day work, surely $5 per month it reasonable for a too, you use so frequently??? (Im a long time 1pw user and vocal supporter. I’m now wondering how they are going to generate the expected return in this investment, because I can’t see any realistic avenues for that which aren’t likely to fuck me and everybody I’ve recommended 1pw to in the last decade or so over…)

BoorishBears 5y ago

> Just 3 dollars a month… if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars then the usage cost would spiral out of control. This sounds so much pithier than it actually is, but of course every reply will say it. Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. Some software you use exists because people work on it for free, some exists because massive ad-tech companies defiling the globe's privacy fund it, etc. - Paid subscriptions is one of those types, and as far as paid subscriptions go 3 dollars a month is bottom of the barrel. Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look? Many MANY companies have tried one time payments and died over it. People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once. A tech forum isn't exactly where to get perspective on that for example... 1Password clearly tried the one time payment model, and if I had to imagine for a second, I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes. Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit...

Dylan16807 5y ago
> Every piece of software needs its own plan for continued development. It does. But if we're talking about just the software, I don't think updates to an already-finished password manager are worth nearly that much. Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  > already-finished password manager No such thing. If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. > Microsoft used to sell upgrades for their entire OS for $3 a month, released once every 3 years. Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > If it was finished they'd close their doors and find a new way to make a living. Feature-complete, then. It needs updates but it doesn't need significant development work. > Great way to make my point. MS tried taking just 3 dollars a month for an entire OS, but because they were asking for money upfront they had to turn to a mixture advertising Candy Crush in the start menu and privacy abuse. They make most of their money off new computers at an even lower price. Adding candy crush and more tracking came after they switched to making upgrades free, and I really doubt it's worth $100 a seat. They made home windows into a loss-leader. If there was a choice to pay to remove those things I bet they'd make somewhat more money. But it's not where their big revenue streams are so they don't care.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      Again, software development companies have tried the "rely on people being willing to pay upfront for updates" and failed repeatedly Once you get there it doesn't matter if your goal was features or updates, you're talking about closing doors and laying people off. So I'd much rather 1password do exactly what they did and pivot off a failing model. > They made home windows into a loss-leader. That's great, and I'm sure when 1Password has a 100B war chest to sit on they'll think about doing the same. Most people would consider turning your flagship into a loss-leader for other parts of the company not exactly the goal of the average software shop.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
kjreact 5y ago
> Does 1Password asking for 3 dollars make every other app on your computer suddenly need 3 dollars a month? By your logic there’s nothing wrong with any other app asking for their own monthly toll when you feel that 1Password is justified in doing so. > Like if every paid subscription you had was 3 dollars how would your bills look? But 1Password never needed to be a subscription in the first place. I am still able to use 1Password6 to this day without any updates for the past 3 years. That’s $108 for software that I paid $30 originally. > People are allergic to upfront payment. People just might not have the funds to pay a fair price all at once. If they were truly worried about losing customers unwilling to pay upfront they’d offer both options. By forcing everyone to go subscription they see that they could have milked me for an additional $78+ without doing any work at all. > I bet you one-time payment users ended up being some of their most expensive users since they had to manage disparate sync schemes. Now at least subscription users can subsides that cost a bit… I don’t see why I should feel inclined to pay more to support some edge case users. I didn’t bemoan 1Password when they didn’t provide an update after Safari changed their API. I continued using the software in Firefox and Chrome. Am I considered an “expensive user” simply because I’m unwilling to pay their toll? I haven’t gotten any support from them for the past 3 years. We live in a capitalistic world and 1Password is free to go with whatever pricing model works for them to maximize their revenues. Likewise, I am free to warn people the poor value that they’re receiving with the current subscription model. I don’t have to aspire to be a reoccurring revenue stream to boost their $6.8B valuation…
jjav 5y ago
> People are allergic to upfront payment. What? People in general are clamoring and highly prefer one-time payment. Approximately nobody wants a recurring charge every month. Companies are pushing and forcing subscriptions only because the recurring revenue stream is what investors want to see. People don't want it.
- liujy 5y ago
  Anecdotally, if you asked me to pay $30 up-front for a password manager, I would just keep using the same minimum-effort password for every site like I was doing a few years ago. Data-wise, we know that the largest drop-off during customer acquisition is when they have to input payment information. IME most people don’t want to pay for anything at all. Which is partly why the subscription model works — try it for free for a month so you can understand the value proposition. Afterward, you’re more willing to pay for it.

bigiain 5y ago

> if every piece of software I use on a daily basis cost me a few dollars Can I interest you in a cloud license for ls? It’s clearly critical you your day to day work, surely $5 per month it reasonable for a too, you use so frequently??? (Im a long time 1pw user and vocal supporter. I’m now wondering how they are going to generate the expected return in this investment, because I can’t see any realistic avenues for that which aren’t likely to fuck me and everybody I’ve recommended 1pw to in the last decade or so over…)