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Would the USA be better off by taxing people like Elon based on some percentage of his wealth? Does that include only his cash holdings, or real estate, or vest

Would the USA be better off by taxing people like Elon based on some percentage of his wealth? Does that include only his cash holdings, or real estate, or vested stock, or options, or other non-liquid assets and investments? Or is it better to let people like Elon do what he thinks is best with that capital? I'll side with Elon on this one.

wolverine876 5y ago
Should we just let rich people make decisions for the rest of us, for the country? If you think so, you can vote for them in elections. But power comes from us, not from whoever strikes it rich. It's not all or nothing, of course; Musk has plenty of resources regardless.
- vecplane 5y ago
  I'm not arguing for that at all. I'm arguing that you don't have a right to other people's property just because they have a lot of it.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Who says otherwise? That is not the basis of taxation; the basis is we all have to chip in and make an equal sacrifice for the things we collectively decide. Musk has as much right to my money as I do to Musk's.
    - vecplane 5y ago
      Neither has any right to each other's property without consent.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        All taxation is void? And every other means of the same? What if you lose a civil suit against me?
dane-pgp 5y ago
> Or is it better to let people like Elon do what he thinks is best with that capital? If Elon wants to create a charitable foundation with the mission of "Make humans a multi-planetary species", with himself as the chief executive, then society would probably be happy to let him transfer his wealth into that foundation (tax free) and continue making decisions about how it is spent.
- vecplane 5y ago
  Or he can keep doing what he's doing and people can stay out of his way. So long as he's not infringing on the rights and freedoms of others in an unjust manner, why should he have to jump through hoops like that?
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    Elon didn't make his fortune in a vacuum. (Well, his rockets might operate in a vacuum, but you know what I mean.) If someone succeeds in a country like America, it is because they have benefited from the roads and schools and legal system etc. that the government has put in place, paid for by taxation. If Elon is more wealthy than most people, it means he has benefited more from these services than them, and thus it is natural to expect him to pay more. The question then becomes "How does society determine how much to bill Elon for?", and there are valid reasons to propose taxes based on income, or wealth, or consumption, or land, or some combination, or some alternative ways of generating revenue, such as only taxing corporate profit. Ultimately these practical questions are for the people and their elected representatives to answer, but if the answer is "Money in your bank account is taxed, but money in your non-profit charity's account isn't", then Elon is welcome to jump through that hoop to reduce the money that goes to the government.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Changing the rules after the fact may work on current-Elon (what can he do?!) but will definitely discourage future-Elons. And the society will benefit much more from those future Elons than from fleecing the current one to appease non-productive "equality seekers".
jakelazaroff 5y ago
> Or is it better to let people like Elon do what he thinks is best with that capital? It's better to tax away a percentage of his wealth and collectively decide how to use it. Elon Musk shouldn't get a bigger say in how to run our society simply because he has the most money.
imtringued 5y ago
It would be very useful macro economically speaking to tax his liquid cash and demand deposit holdings because money can only be borrowed. If he keeps cash liquid beyond his need to transact with it then he's doing macroeconomic damage which has to be compensated through the central bank. It's kinda like someone parking illegally and the police being unable to fine the driver. So instead they start bribing the driver so he stops parking illegally.

wolverine876 5y ago

Should we just let rich people make decisions for the rest of us, for the country? If you think so, you can vote for them in elections. But power comes from us, not from whoever strikes it rich. It's not all or nothing, of course; Musk has plenty of resources regardless.

vecplane 5y ago
I'm not arguing for that at all. I'm arguing that you don't have a right to other people's property just because they have a lot of it.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Who says otherwise? That is not the basis of taxation; the basis is we all have to chip in and make an equal sacrifice for the things we collectively decide. Musk has as much right to my money as I do to Musk's.
  - vecplane 5y ago
    Neither has any right to each other's property without consent.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      All taxation is void? And every other means of the same? What if you lose a civil suit against me?

dane-pgp 5y ago

> Or is it better to let people like Elon do what he thinks is best with that capital? If Elon wants to create a charitable foundation with the mission of "Make humans a multi-planetary species", with himself as the chief executive, then society would probably be happy to let him transfer his wealth into that foundation (tax free) and continue making decisions about how it is spent.

vecplane 5y ago
Or he can keep doing what he's doing and people can stay out of his way. So long as he's not infringing on the rights and freedoms of others in an unjust manner, why should he have to jump through hoops like that?
- dane-pgp 5y ago
  Elon didn't make his fortune in a vacuum. (Well, his rockets might operate in a vacuum, but you know what I mean.) If someone succeeds in a country like America, it is because they have benefited from the roads and schools and legal system etc. that the government has put in place, paid for by taxation. If Elon is more wealthy than most people, it means he has benefited more from these services than them, and thus it is natural to expect him to pay more. The question then becomes "How does society determine how much to bill Elon for?", and there are valid reasons to propose taxes based on income, or wealth, or consumption, or land, or some combination, or some alternative ways of generating revenue, such as only taxing corporate profit. Ultimately these practical questions are for the people and their elected representatives to answer, but if the answer is "Money in your bank account is taxed, but money in your non-profit charity's account isn't", then Elon is welcome to jump through that hoop to reduce the money that goes to the government.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Changing the rules after the fact may work on current-Elon (what can he do?!) but will definitely discourage future-Elons. And the society will benefit much more from those future Elons than from fleecing the current one to appease non-productive "equality seekers".

jakelazaroff 5y ago

> Or is it better to let people like Elon do what he thinks is best with that capital? It's better to tax away a percentage of his wealth and collectively decide how to use it. Elon Musk shouldn't get a bigger say in how to run our society simply because he has the most money.

imtringued 5y ago

It would be very useful macro economically speaking to tax his liquid cash and demand deposit holdings because money can only be borrowed. If he keeps cash liquid beyond his need to transact with it then he's doing macroeconomic damage which has to be compensated through the central bank. It's kinda like someone parking illegally and the police being unable to fine the driver. So instead they start bribing the driver so he stops parking illegally.