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> Obviously our use case isn't that common (it's been "legacy" for years) but still annoying to know that there's probably some script I could run to do this, b

> Obviously our use case isn't that common (it's been "legacy" for years) but still annoying to know that there's probably some script I could run to do this, but nobody has built the web UI for it. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for a 20% time project. Surely you aren't the only Googler in this situation?

y4mi 5y ago
Its not just googlers, the legacy accounts where available to everyone at the start. but the venn diagram overlap of people * willing to pay for such a tool, * not having switched to another provider since * and not willing to start paying for it now will be tiny
- quesomaster9000 5y ago
  You're forgetting the circle of ageing techies that used to use AltaVista and now (in)directly control large budgets, have long memories and significant clout when it comes to guiding our replacements into making the right decisions and educating them about corporate (mis)trust.
  - y4mi 5y ago
    Uh, why do they matter in the context of a potential side project to let people migrate their Mails from the discontinued free legacy project to a free private account?
    - quesomaster9000 5y ago
      Because sometimes you have to "do the right thing" and not be an arse, despite what the metrics say.
  - blagie 5y ago
    I'm in that circle. I've cost Google millions of dollars in business due to a history of similar dick moves on their part. This adds just one more to the list. The organization I work at will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever consider using Google for anything business-critical, and neither will businesses I advise in various roles. I have at least a dozen relatives on my Google family domain. We're looking at a lifetime cost of tens of thousands of dollars if I were to switch to Workspace, which is a non-starter. One possibility is to finally incorporate my family foundation as a 501(c)3, if we can do that in time. It's been on my to do list. I'm not even sure where to go from here, but I have things like Android apps I've bought on this account, as does my family. Or I guess the word is "rented." I have a bunch of logins with Google OAuth. Or I guess past tense. I feel like there's a class action in here somewhere.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  It was free for 10 accounts. The number one massively applicable use case vs plain google accounts was vanity domain names and signing up was no harder than creating a regular gmail account. There are probably more vanity domain users than small businesses with 10 people. In fact I would venture to guess with the 10 address limit they are nearly 100% of the remaining users on the legacy program. The cost of the domain name is $10 per domain per year or $1 per person per year little enough for one person to pay without thinking. Most people keep an email address for a very very long time rarely switching unless a service ceases to exist. Almost no domain owners are going to pony up $720 per year themselves and collection from other users will be an untenable hassle. Basically every bullet point you listed is wrong. The remaining pool of users is likely 99% vanity users who would have used Gmail+custom domain forever at no real cost to Google over free Gmail none of which will migrate to Google workspace. For Google the gain from this change will be identical to picking n random Gmail accounts and canceling them and keeping those users digital purchases as a giant fu. Not ruinous but hardly profitable either. Someone with an ounce of sense would have included the option to migrate all email accounts to regular Gmail accounts.
  - binkHN 5y ago
    I agree with everything you posted here! With one exception. The number of accounts, originally, was unlimited—you just needed to request them.
  - ArchOversight 5y ago
    It was free for unlimited accounts (I still have a G Suite Legacy account that was grandfathered into that) at first. Eventually unlimited free accounts was dropped to 50, in 2009 (my grandfathered account was soft-capped at that, with the option to reach out to support to increase it), but I had several other domains that were hard-capped at 50 since I opened them after that limit was instituted. [1] Then that limit was dropped from 50 to 10 (hard capped, grand-fathered accounts kept their old limits) in 2011. [2] Then last but not least there was the 1 user free if you had a Google AppEngine project (that came with the requirement that it was tied to a G-Suite at the time). My G Suite legacy accounts were all created in 2007-2010 timeframe. [1]: https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2009/01/50-user-limit-for-new-standard-edition.html https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2009/01/50-user-limi... [2]: https://cloud.googleblog.com/2011/04/helping-small-businesses-start-and.html https://cloud.googleblog.com/2011/04/helping-small-businesse...
- Thorrez 5y ago
  Why would it be a paid tool? I would assume it would be free.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > Its not just googlers, the legacy accounts where available to everyone at the start. Right, but only (some) Googlers are in a position to solve the problem by applying 20% time to it.
mgraczyk 5y ago
This would not be a 20% project, it would require at least 2 engineers full time for several months. I'm not even a web developer.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  Its a man year to migrate per user 10 Google app accounts to 10 Gmail accounts? That seems... wrong. Do you actually work at Google?
  - mgraczyk 5y ago
    I do, and I'd encourage you to try to ship a user-facing feature that transfers control of user data between different authentication users at a big tech company if you're skeptical.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      Presumably just leaving users with 10 accounts not attached to a company would cost zero dollars.
    - inyorgroove 5y ago
      Someone else in the thread mentioned that Education users can migrate their accounts out of the organization to free gmail amounts. Surely some or all of that workflow applies to these legacy free accounts too.
      - mgraczyk 5y ago
        That was me, I'm sure some of it would apply but you still have to build a web app, test it, test the transfer stuff, implement anything that wasn't already implemented for EDU, etc...
    - ikiris 5y ago
      Not to mention maintain it against the constant library churn. Anyone who was ever an Xoogler knows this is basically a non starter. The privacy issues alone are radioactive as far as desirability to chase.

y4mi 5y ago

Its not just googlers, the legacy accounts where available to everyone at the start. but the venn diagram overlap of people * willing to pay for such a tool, * not having switched to another provider since * and not willing to start paying for it now will be tiny

quesomaster9000 5y ago
You're forgetting the circle of ageing techies that used to use AltaVista and now (in)directly control large budgets, have long memories and significant clout when it comes to guiding our replacements into making the right decisions and educating them about corporate (mis)trust.
- y4mi 5y ago
  Uh, why do they matter in the context of a potential side project to let people migrate their Mails from the discontinued free legacy project to a free private account?
  - quesomaster9000 5y ago
    Because sometimes you have to "do the right thing" and not be an arse, despite what the metrics say.
- blagie 5y ago
  I'm in that circle. I've cost Google millions of dollars in business due to a history of similar dick moves on their part. This adds just one more to the list. The organization I work at will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever consider using Google for anything business-critical, and neither will businesses I advise in various roles. I have at least a dozen relatives on my Google family domain. We're looking at a lifetime cost of tens of thousands of dollars if I were to switch to Workspace, which is a non-starter. One possibility is to finally incorporate my family foundation as a 501(c)3, if we can do that in time. It's been on my to do list. I'm not even sure where to go from here, but I have things like Android apps I've bought on this account, as does my family. Or I guess the word is "rented." I have a bunch of logins with Google OAuth. Or I guess past tense. I feel like there's a class action in here somewhere.
michaelmrose 5y ago
It was free for 10 accounts. The number one massively applicable use case vs plain google accounts was vanity domain names and signing up was no harder than creating a regular gmail account. There are probably more vanity domain users than small businesses with 10 people. In fact I would venture to guess with the 10 address limit they are nearly 100% of the remaining users on the legacy program. The cost of the domain name is $10 per domain per year or $1 per person per year little enough for one person to pay without thinking. Most people keep an email address for a very very long time rarely switching unless a service ceases to exist. Almost no domain owners are going to pony up $720 per year themselves and collection from other users will be an untenable hassle. Basically every bullet point you listed is wrong. The remaining pool of users is likely 99% vanity users who would have used Gmail+custom domain forever at no real cost to Google over free Gmail none of which will migrate to Google workspace. For Google the gain from this change will be identical to picking n random Gmail accounts and canceling them and keeping those users digital purchases as a giant fu. Not ruinous but hardly profitable either. Someone with an ounce of sense would have included the option to migrate all email accounts to regular Gmail accounts.
- binkHN 5y ago
  I agree with everything you posted here! With one exception. The number of accounts, originally, was unlimited—you just needed to request them.
- ArchOversight 5y ago
  It was free for unlimited accounts (I still have a G Suite Legacy account that was grandfathered into that) at first. Eventually unlimited free accounts was dropped to 50, in 2009 (my grandfathered account was soft-capped at that, with the option to reach out to support to increase it), but I had several other domains that were hard-capped at 50 since I opened them after that limit was instituted. [1] Then that limit was dropped from 50 to 10 (hard capped, grand-fathered accounts kept their old limits) in 2011. [2] Then last but not least there was the 1 user free if you had a Google AppEngine project (that came with the requirement that it was tied to a G-Suite at the time). My G Suite legacy accounts were all created in 2007-2010 timeframe. [1]: https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2009/01/50-user-limit-for-new-standard-edition.html https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2009/01/50-user-limi... [2]: https://cloud.googleblog.com/2011/04/helping-small-businesses-start-and.html https://cloud.googleblog.com/2011/04/helping-small-businesse...
Thorrez 5y ago
Why would it be a paid tool? I would assume it would be free.
webmaven 5y ago
> Its not just googlers, the legacy accounts where available to everyone at the start. Right, but only (some) Googlers are in a position to solve the problem by applying 20% time to it.

mgraczyk 5y ago

This would not be a 20% project, it would require at least 2 engineers full time for several months. I'm not even a web developer.

michaelmrose 5y ago
Its a man year to migrate per user 10 Google app accounts to 10 Gmail accounts? That seems... wrong. Do you actually work at Google?
- mgraczyk 5y ago
  I do, and I'd encourage you to try to ship a user-facing feature that transfers control of user data between different authentication users at a big tech company if you're skeptical.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    Presumably just leaving users with 10 accounts not attached to a company would cost zero dollars.
  - inyorgroove 5y ago
    Someone else in the thread mentioned that Education users can migrate their accounts out of the organization to free gmail amounts. Surely some or all of that workflow applies to these legacy free accounts too.
    - mgraczyk 5y ago
      That was me, I'm sure some of it would apply but you still have to build a web app, test it, test the transfer stuff, implement anything that wasn't already implemented for EDU, etc...
  - ikiris 5y ago
    Not to mention maintain it against the constant library churn. Anyone who was ever an Xoogler knows this is basically a non starter. The privacy issues alone are radioactive as far as desirability to chase.