6 ms·

Pretty typical for people here to be zoomed-in on the b2c side of a business because that's what they use, and fail to see the b2b side, the underwater mass of

by koboll 5y ago

Pretty typical for people here to be zoomed-in on the b2c side of a business because that's what they use, and fail to see the b2b side, the underwater mass of the iceberg.

jtbayly 5y ago
Yeah, we’ll, it sucks to pay for an app that is perfect and then have them ruin it because of their b2b aspirations. And raising money like this is just another link in the chain pulling them down into the pit of insanity that ruins the most-beloved password manager ever.
wlesieutre 5y ago
I think people can see that this is targeting businesses, but they're not happy about that because they're non-business customers. It doesn't bode well for the future direction of what has up to now been a good consumer-focused product. Like how Dropbox has gone from "a folder that synchronizes your files" to "an electron app for having discussion threads about files" because that's what business customers want.
- yccs27 5y ago
  Hopefully the consumer marketshare has some influence on business decisions, which might make it worthwile for them to keep non-business customers. This kind of strategy certainly works for some professional software, which is often even free for students.
  - wlesieutre 5y ago
    I suspect 1Password sees features like iCloud Keychain coming and is trying to grow into other markets because a "good enough" built-in password manager will significantly decrease their value proposition in the consumer space. Not great if you like their product as a consumer, but 1Password's biggest feature differentiator right now is better family sharing than iOS provides. That could easily change in a future iOS version, and then it's suddenly a lot harder for 1Password to grow by selling a $60/year password manager subscription. Enterprise features on the other hand, that's not something that OS vendors are likely to ship. While I don't like the newer versions of Dropbox as much as the old ones, I can understand how pressure from iCloud and OneDrive pushed them toward enterprise features over consumer users.
    - indymike 5y ago
      > Enterprise features on the other hand, that's not something that OS vendors are likely to ship. Maybe not on Mac, but MS will probably try.
      - wlesieutre 5y ago
        If anything I'd bet on MS sticking it into their Office subscription, not Windows itself. So 1Password will be up against iCloud Keychain from Apple and Microsoft Passwords 365 on the enterprise front.
        indymike 5y ago
        You are probably right.
  - halostatue 5y ago
    Count on it. Unlike many _other_ product companies, they all dogwood their own code. Also, IIRC all members of a team account are given a family account for their own use (you’d obviously have to convert if you separate from the company), so they are building for _people_.
- vram22 5y ago
  Tangentially, I had read somewhere some years ago, that the Dropbox GUI clients on some or all of Linux, Windows and macOS were written in Python and wxPython. The one that you activate from the system tray, in the case of Windows, at least. This may have overlapped with when Guido was working there, though they may have built those clients before he joined, of course.
jrockway 5y ago
I think it's a little weird. I have used 1password at two jobs, and thought it was great, so I bought it for myself. They want money to sync my passwords between my Windows desktop and my iPhone. Seems reasonable to me. I program computers for a living and people pay me. I guess there was a free self-hosted type thing at one point in the past? That was before I ever heard of the product, so I'm not that upset that it's no longer advertised heavily or whatever. I do have one complaint. They do have k8s secret management, which I would like to use for my personal cluster, but it's just too expensive for that. Very weird to show it in the UI and then when you try to use it, quote you an insanely high price. (I just use sealed-secrets instead. If my cluster blows up, it will be a very irritating weekend rotating all the secrets. But good to do, so meh.)
- ubalatte 5y ago
  "Very weird to show it in the UI and then when you try to use it, quote you an insanely high price." How much did they quote? (if you're able to share)
  - jrockway 5y ago
    Oh, it's on their website. It's $30/month for "25 vault access credits". I have no idea what consumes a vault access credit, but didn't want to pay $30/month for a personal project. (At my last job, I wrote something to rotate the passwords on our network equipment everyday. I just exec'd the 1password linux binary, and that was free. Why should I pay to integrate it with k8s?)
- highwind 5y ago
  I used to use 1Password when they just sold the application at a fixed price and I handle all the synchronization between machines. That option is no longer available. I'm one of the users who left because of this.
  - cj 5y ago
    They used to offer synchronization via Dropbox. Is that still an option?
alanh 5y ago
I think this underscores some (but not all!) of the negative reaction to "Zendesk plans to buy (the company behind) SurveyMonkey" — the latter of which has developed significant revenue streams from specific B2B products
quickthrower2 5y ago
I was going to say something about “just use pgp and rsync”
- bigiain 5y ago
  Browser and mobile app auto fill are really key features for a password manager.
drtz 5y ago
There's a chance that a push toward enterprise may even result in a feature a lot of us more savvy individual customers would love to see as well: self-hosting.
sjtindell 5y ago
True but if anyone could even casually be aware of and use terms like b2c and b2b it’s people on this forum right.

by koboll 5y ago

Pretty typical for people here to be zoomed-in on the b2c side of a business because that's what they use, and fail to see the b2b side, the underwater mass of the iceberg.

jtbayly 5y ago

Yeah, we’ll, it sucks to pay for an app that is perfect and then have them ruin it because of their b2b aspirations. And raising money like this is just another link in the chain pulling them down into the pit of insanity that ruins the most-beloved password manager ever.

wlesieutre 5y ago

I think people can see that this is targeting businesses, but they're not happy about that because they're non-business customers. It doesn't bode well for the future direction of what has up to now been a good consumer-focused product. Like how Dropbox has gone from "a folder that synchronizes your files" to "an electron app for having discussion threads about files" because that's what business customers want.

yccs27 5y ago
Hopefully the consumer marketshare has some influence on business decisions, which might make it worthwile for them to keep non-business customers. This kind of strategy certainly works for some professional software, which is often even free for students.
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  I suspect 1Password sees features like iCloud Keychain coming and is trying to grow into other markets because a "good enough" built-in password manager will significantly decrease their value proposition in the consumer space. Not great if you like their product as a consumer, but 1Password's biggest feature differentiator right now is better family sharing than iOS provides. That could easily change in a future iOS version, and then it's suddenly a lot harder for 1Password to grow by selling a $60/year password manager subscription. Enterprise features on the other hand, that's not something that OS vendors are likely to ship. While I don't like the newer versions of Dropbox as much as the old ones, I can understand how pressure from iCloud and OneDrive pushed them toward enterprise features over consumer users.
  - indymike 5y ago
    > Enterprise features on the other hand, that's not something that OS vendors are likely to ship. Maybe not on Mac, but MS will probably try.
    - wlesieutre 5y ago
      If anything I'd bet on MS sticking it into their Office subscription, not Windows itself. So 1Password will be up against iCloud Keychain from Apple and Microsoft Passwords 365 on the enterprise front.
      - indymike 5y ago
        You are probably right.
- halostatue 5y ago
  Count on it. Unlike many _other_ product companies, they all dogwood their own code. Also, IIRC all members of a team account are given a family account for their own use (you’d obviously have to convert if you separate from the company), so they are building for _people_.
vram22 5y ago
Tangentially, I had read somewhere some years ago, that the Dropbox GUI clients on some or all of Linux, Windows and macOS were written in Python and wxPython. The one that you activate from the system tray, in the case of Windows, at least. This may have overlapped with when Guido was working there, though they may have built those clients before he joined, of course.

jrockway 5y ago

I think it's a little weird. I have used 1password at two jobs, and thought it was great, so I bought it for myself. They want money to sync my passwords between my Windows desktop and my iPhone. Seems reasonable to me. I program computers for a living and people pay me. I guess there was a free self-hosted type thing at one point in the past? That was before I ever heard of the product, so I'm not that upset that it's no longer advertised heavily or whatever. I do have one complaint. They do have k8s secret management, which I would like to use for my personal cluster, but it's just too expensive for that. Very weird to show it in the UI and then when you try to use it, quote you an insanely high price. (I just use sealed-secrets instead. If my cluster blows up, it will be a very irritating weekend rotating all the secrets. But good to do, so meh.)

ubalatte 5y ago
"Very weird to show it in the UI and then when you try to use it, quote you an insanely high price." How much did they quote? (if you're able to share)
- jrockway 5y ago
  Oh, it's on their website. It's $30/month for "25 vault access credits". I have no idea what consumes a vault access credit, but didn't want to pay $30/month for a personal project. (At my last job, I wrote something to rotate the passwords on our network equipment everyday. I just exec'd the 1password linux binary, and that was free. Why should I pay to integrate it with k8s?)
highwind 5y ago
I used to use 1Password when they just sold the application at a fixed price and I handle all the synchronization between machines. That option is no longer available. I'm one of the users who left because of this.
- cj 5y ago
  They used to offer synchronization via Dropbox. Is that still an option?

alanh 5y ago

I think this underscores some (but not all!) of the negative reaction to "Zendesk plans to buy (the company behind) SurveyMonkey" — the latter of which has developed significant revenue streams from specific B2B products

quickthrower2 5y ago

I was going to say something about “just use pgp and rsync”

bigiain 5y ago
Browser and mobile app auto fill are really key features for a password manager.

drtz 5y ago

There's a chance that a push toward enterprise may even result in a feature a lot of us more savvy individual customers would love to see as well: self-hosting.

sjtindell 5y ago

True but if anyone could even casually be aware of and use terms like b2c and b2b it’s people on this forum right.