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The tech works extremely well at making me feel sick. I enjoyed subnautica sans VR. ED is less interesting than Euro truck simulator. :-) I get the physical ga

The tech works extremely well at making me feel sick. I enjoyed subnautica sans VR. ED is less interesting than Euro truck simulator. :-) I get the physical games like table tenis and beat saber, but how is this not a fad? The wii was cool at the time too. Nintendo didn’t retain the ideas in later hardware. VR chat is about as interesting as second life, and any metaverse that follows will follow the same path.

dale_glass 5y ago
Well, in that case you've got to make adjustments to your setup (wrong IPD maybe?), or you could just be unlucky and get sick far too easily. Consumer VR of course involves a disconnect between what you feel and what you see, and that makes people sick when it gets bad enough, but most people can enjoy at least some VR experiences. By my account, I've managed to spend days of real time within Subnautica exclusively in VR. If you get sick, what I'd recommend is something like Beat Saber, where you're never moved without physically moving in reality. If that doesn't work something is definitely wrong. The next easiest experience is cockpit simulations. I'd say Subnautica comes somewhere after that, being in the intermediate range. The worst I've personally tried is Half Life 2 in VR (as in, HL2 just rendering to VR without further changes), and that is indeed not a nice experience because the FPS mechanics just don't work in VR. The acceleration, the need to constantly rotate your view without moving in reality, the need to make very quick and frequent changes in direction are all very hard to tolerate. > I get the physical games like table tenis and beat saber, but how is this not a fad? Who cares? What matters if it's fun or not. I enjoy the exercise, I don't do it to fit in. And it's surprisingly good exercise. I lift weights, and Racket NX still is capable of making my arms sore. Then I suppose I have a rather violent play style.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  “Far too easily?” You Sir are being rude, and I feel like you are trying to justify your VR experiences to yourself. However If you enjoy it, that’s all that matters.
  - drusepth 5y ago
    One small tip I'd offer is... try chewing gum next time you're in VR. I have almost 3,000 hours clocked in VR according to Steam and there are still a few games that can make me nauseous (mostly those with poor locomotion and/or bad frame drops). Weirdly enough, chewing gum seems to help a ton; in some games, I feel like I'm less nauseous next time I play, too. Not sure how scientific this is, but friends say the trick generally works for them too.
  - dale_glass 5y ago
    Well, I apologize if it came off as rude, wasn't the intention. I was just trying to say that different people have different amounts of tolerance for VR, and it could just be that your isn't that high for whatever reason. Nothing wrong with that, but that it doesn't work for you specifically doesn't really mean much for VR as a technology.
  - interstice 5y ago
    Perhaps could be phrased as “more easily than other users”? Dropping in as a quest 2 user to add anecdata of not feeling sick in most games or for extended periods of time. I’m not used to moving around smoothly using controllers though, flying a racing drone is kind of similar in being vaguely disturbing to begin with. Quest 2 sales over the last few weeks would hint this might not be a fad, though.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Sales… to know if it is a fad or not — we don’t know, at least not yet. Actual numbers of people that use it more than once and put it in a closet? Let’s see.
      - interstice 5y ago
        Steam stats are based on active users iirc - at the moment about 1.93% of all Steam users use VR Headsets, and Half Life Alyx recorded 42k concurrent users. This is keeping in mind Q2 (the current sales winner) is a standalone headset by default. You could argue most of those concurrent users used the headset once and put it away, but that line is getting harder to argue as time goes on and the numbers keep increasing. If this was 2016-2019 I'd agree it was very touch and go in terms of where it was going. But the investment and interest building around VR now has that here-to-stay feel to it - at least on my sometimes accurate vibe-ometer.
- amerkhalid 5y ago
  I wish there was some database where users can report comfort level of each game. Oculus rate comfort levels but I find many games rated "comfortable" still make me sick. Also I love VR and have no major issues with games like Beat Saber, Thrill of Fight, The Climb, Eleven, The Plank Experience, etc. Whenever there is something that might cause nausea like falling, I just close my eyes.
jcun4128 5y ago
The hard thing with VRChat is finding "your" people and particularly people that aren't screaming/younger teens. But it is funny, I still feel anxious talking to a stranger in VR. It's wild though... I mostly spend my time alone (moved to a random state) and I can just dive in somewhere and talk to random people. I do feel old in general though on VRChat ha. I suffered with motion sickness too it gets better over time. I will say I'm not a generally all-around likeable cool guy either so you do have to vibe/give something (be interesting). Ultimately as far as making friends or something... that's hard. I'll get invited to discord servers and then it dies off in a few days. There is one thing I have to try still Fo4 VR.
- pharke 5y ago
  Come join the other introvert techies on Helios[0][1] Fair warning, it's still under development and the meetups generally operate on a schedule but that also means it isn't overrun with annoying first time Quest owners. The founders are very active and responsive on Discord. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1047640/Helios/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1047640/Helios/ [1] https://www.helios-vr.com/ https://www.helios-vr.com/
  - jcun4128 5y ago
    That looks interesting I'd be curious to see how it's doing now at least 4 months + later from most recent reviews. I can understand how hard it is to start something from nothing regarding userbase. I will give it a shot, the game seems too cheap (cost to own) just my opinion.
haalia 5y ago
> The tech works extremely well at making me feel sick. But you realize this is a you problem, right? Outside the handful of people who get motion sick with VR, the tech is rock solid. Everyone who tries an Index is blown away by how immersive the experience is. > VR chat is about as interesting as second life, and any metaverse that follows will follow the same path. You couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason Facebook rebranded to Meta, and Microsoft just purchased Activision with designs on their own metaverse. Big players are putting serious money behind this, and I like those odds.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Zuck rebranded because Facebook has a bad rep. Microsoft bought AB for their IP and lib, I don’t believe they do any VR stuff. They do online gaming well and will be very successful with Xbox. I don’t think we will be seeing competitive esports in VR, as we don’t see competitive Wii Bowling as an esport.
  - T-A 5y ago
    > Microsoft bought AB for their IP and lib, I don’t believe they do any VR stuff. https://store.steampowered.com/app/967490/Microsoft_Maquette/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/967490/Microsoft_Maquette... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/altspace-vr/overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/altsp... https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mesh https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mesh
    - rejschaap 5y ago
      It would make more sense that "they" refers to Activision Blizzard. They do very little VR stuff compared to Microsoft.
      - T-A 5y ago
        Doesn't really make sense anyway. If you're building a VR world, you need to fill it with something.
aero-002 5y ago
>Nintendo didn’t retain the ideas in later hardware bruh, have you ever played a Nintendo Switch? It's essentially the culmination of Wii-era motion controls + the WiiU's console/handheld split. Every fucking shooting game on the Switch is nowadays released with motion controls (for gyro aiming). The joycons are basically sleeker Wiimotes with better motion sensors. Saying that the Wii's revolution was just a passing fad for Nintendo is hella disingenuous.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  I own a switch. It’s not the same as the wiimotes or the physical game gimmick ala wii sports. The physical movement was a big part, similar to what VR is trying to do now. I think in generally the switch is awesome but it’s closer to a traditional console GBA or DS. Nintendo threw away what was a gimmick and what parts were making good gaming experiences.
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    Ring Fit Adventure or Just Dance is a very Wii-like experience. Other games use Switch controllers in a very similar way to wiimotes. I think what has happened is the platform has opened up to more non-Nintendo games and diluted the focus on movement that was in a lot of games for Wii/WiiU. Motion control has gone mainstream too, all controllers have tilt sensitivity, so that doesn't seem as big a thing. Maybe your right that people choose to use stick controls in preference to macro-movements of controllers.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    That's because the motion controls largely didn't work for that kind of thing outside of a few gimmicky titles. Their use in the Switch is far more natural and integrated, so of course it doesn't feel like a gimmick.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    So Switch combines DS/Wii/WiiU style game in one hardware. Well done.
- 5y ago
fho 5y ago
I guess every "you sit in a cockpit" game works very well with HMDs ... there was an early demo of a Mechwarrior style game that worked very well (for me) in VR. For me the problem is that the resolution was always lacking. With my glasses I have "better than 20/20"-vision (visus of 1.2-1.6, 120-160 visual acuity). I have not tried the newer HMDs, but with the older Oculus Rift and HTC Vive I could clearly see the individual pixels distracting me from the experience.
- tiku 5y ago
  The so called "screendoor effect" is not there anymore with the Quest 2 high res HMD's. My HTC vive had it and it was annoying but a good game could rule it out, with video it was visible. But on the Quest2 you can't see it.
- int_19h 5y ago
  For people not into sims in general, I would recommend Project Wingman as a fun gateway to this. It's arcade to the point of your typical space sim, so it's easy to get going.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
> but how is this not a fad? The wii was cool at the time too. Nintendo didn’t retain the ideas in later hardware. Hand tracking (via controllers or cameras) isn’t comparable at all to the Nintendo waggle/point/swing tech.
spywaregorilla 5y ago
The physical games are barely VR games imo. Everything is in front of you. You don't physically move where you're standing too much. Beat Saber is great fun but it can be done pretty much the same without VR, and is done, at arcades.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  No it can't? There are other rhythm games at the arcade, but they're not Beat Saber.
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    There's literal beat saber cabinets. In retrospect they may have had a helmet, but it's all rendered in front of you on a screen anyway. Aside from the wall dodging which is pretty minor, you don't need VR to play beat saber at all. All of the action happens a meter in front of you in a constant direction.
    - glenneroo 5y ago
      What are these cabinets called? I've never seen them anywhere. Do they have a VR helmet or not? If so, they are probably just clones trying to ride on the success of Beat Saber which continues to rank very high in charts of best VR games. I personally find the best Beat Saber levels are 90 degree and 360 degree, where you have to spin your body around and which wouldn't be possible in such cabinets. Also the immersion of VR is where it's at - the fact that you feel like a Jedi with your light sabers and you're cutting blocks in time with the music, while the controllers vibrate as well giving you feedback that makes your brain believe you are a Jedi.
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago
        They're called beat saber.
        glenneroo 5y ago

dale_glass 5y ago

Well, in that case you've got to make adjustments to your setup (wrong IPD maybe?), or you could just be unlucky and get sick far too easily. Consumer VR of course involves a disconnect between what you feel and what you see, and that makes people sick when it gets bad enough, but most people can enjoy at least some VR experiences. By my account, I've managed to spend days of real time within Subnautica exclusively in VR. If you get sick, what I'd recommend is something like Beat Saber, where you're never moved without physically moving in reality. If that doesn't work something is definitely wrong. The next easiest experience is cockpit simulations. I'd say Subnautica comes somewhere after that, being in the intermediate range. The worst I've personally tried is Half Life 2 in VR (as in, HL2 just rendering to VR without further changes), and that is indeed not a nice experience because the FPS mechanics just don't work in VR. The acceleration, the need to constantly rotate your view without moving in reality, the need to make very quick and frequent changes in direction are all very hard to tolerate. > I get the physical games like table tenis and beat saber, but how is this not a fad? Who cares? What matters if it's fun or not. I enjoy the exercise, I don't do it to fit in. And it's surprisingly good exercise. I lift weights, and Racket NX still is capable of making my arms sore. Then I suppose I have a rather violent play style.

randomhodler84 5y ago
“Far too easily?” You Sir are being rude, and I feel like you are trying to justify your VR experiences to yourself. However If you enjoy it, that’s all that matters.
- drusepth 5y ago
  One small tip I'd offer is... try chewing gum next time you're in VR. I have almost 3,000 hours clocked in VR according to Steam and there are still a few games that can make me nauseous (mostly those with poor locomotion and/or bad frame drops). Weirdly enough, chewing gum seems to help a ton; in some games, I feel like I'm less nauseous next time I play, too. Not sure how scientific this is, but friends say the trick generally works for them too.
- dale_glass 5y ago
  Well, I apologize if it came off as rude, wasn't the intention. I was just trying to say that different people have different amounts of tolerance for VR, and it could just be that your isn't that high for whatever reason. Nothing wrong with that, but that it doesn't work for you specifically doesn't really mean much for VR as a technology.
- interstice 5y ago
  Perhaps could be phrased as “more easily than other users”? Dropping in as a quest 2 user to add anecdata of not feeling sick in most games or for extended periods of time. I’m not used to moving around smoothly using controllers though, flying a racing drone is kind of similar in being vaguely disturbing to begin with. Quest 2 sales over the last few weeks would hint this might not be a fad, though.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Sales… to know if it is a fad or not — we don’t know, at least not yet. Actual numbers of people that use it more than once and put it in a closet? Let’s see.
    - interstice 5y ago
      Steam stats are based on active users iirc - at the moment about 1.93% of all Steam users use VR Headsets, and Half Life Alyx recorded 42k concurrent users. This is keeping in mind Q2 (the current sales winner) is a standalone headset by default. You could argue most of those concurrent users used the headset once and put it away, but that line is getting harder to argue as time goes on and the numbers keep increasing. If this was 2016-2019 I'd agree it was very touch and go in terms of where it was going. But the investment and interest building around VR now has that here-to-stay feel to it - at least on my sometimes accurate vibe-ometer.
amerkhalid 5y ago
I wish there was some database where users can report comfort level of each game. Oculus rate comfort levels but I find many games rated "comfortable" still make me sick. Also I love VR and have no major issues with games like Beat Saber, Thrill of Fight, The Climb, Eleven, The Plank Experience, etc. Whenever there is something that might cause nausea like falling, I just close my eyes.

jcun4128 5y ago

The hard thing with VRChat is finding "your" people and particularly people that aren't screaming/younger teens. But it is funny, I still feel anxious talking to a stranger in VR. It's wild though... I mostly spend my time alone (moved to a random state) and I can just dive in somewhere and talk to random people. I do feel old in general though on VRChat ha. I suffered with motion sickness too it gets better over time. I will say I'm not a generally all-around likeable cool guy either so you do have to vibe/give something (be interesting). Ultimately as far as making friends or something... that's hard. I'll get invited to discord servers and then it dies off in a few days. There is one thing I have to try still Fo4 VR.

pharke 5y ago
Come join the other introvert techies on Helios[0][1] Fair warning, it's still under development and the meetups generally operate on a schedule but that also means it isn't overrun with annoying first time Quest owners. The founders are very active and responsive on Discord. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/1047640/Helios/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1047640/Helios/ [1] https://www.helios-vr.com/ https://www.helios-vr.com/
- jcun4128 5y ago
  That looks interesting I'd be curious to see how it's doing now at least 4 months + later from most recent reviews. I can understand how hard it is to start something from nothing regarding userbase. I will give it a shot, the game seems too cheap (cost to own) just my opinion.

haalia 5y ago

> The tech works extremely well at making me feel sick. But you realize this is a you problem, right? Outside the handful of people who get motion sick with VR, the tech is rock solid. Everyone who tries an Index is blown away by how immersive the experience is. > VR chat is about as interesting as second life, and any metaverse that follows will follow the same path. You couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason Facebook rebranded to Meta, and Microsoft just purchased Activision with designs on their own metaverse. Big players are putting serious money behind this, and I like those odds.

randomhodler84 5y ago
Zuck rebranded because Facebook has a bad rep. Microsoft bought AB for their IP and lib, I don’t believe they do any VR stuff. They do online gaming well and will be very successful with Xbox. I don’t think we will be seeing competitive esports in VR, as we don’t see competitive Wii Bowling as an esport.
- T-A 5y ago
  > Microsoft bought AB for their IP and lib, I don’t believe they do any VR stuff. https://store.steampowered.com/app/967490/Microsoft_Maquette/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/967490/Microsoft_Maquette... https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/altspace-vr/overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/altsp... https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mesh https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/mesh
  - rejschaap 5y ago
    It would make more sense that "they" refers to Activision Blizzard. They do very little VR stuff compared to Microsoft.
    - T-A 5y ago
      Doesn't really make sense anyway. If you're building a VR world, you need to fill it with something.

aero-002 5y ago

>Nintendo didn’t retain the ideas in later hardware bruh, have you ever played a Nintendo Switch? It's essentially the culmination of Wii-era motion controls + the WiiU's console/handheld split. Every fucking shooting game on the Switch is nowadays released with motion controls (for gyro aiming). The joycons are basically sleeker Wiimotes with better motion sensors. Saying that the Wii's revolution was just a passing fad for Nintendo is hella disingenuous.

randomhodler84 5y ago
I own a switch. It’s not the same as the wiimotes or the physical game gimmick ala wii sports. The physical movement was a big part, similar to what VR is trying to do now. I think in generally the switch is awesome but it’s closer to a traditional console GBA or DS. Nintendo threw away what was a gimmick and what parts were making good gaming experiences.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  Ring Fit Adventure or Just Dance is a very Wii-like experience. Other games use Switch controllers in a very similar way to wiimotes. I think what has happened is the platform has opened up to more non-Nintendo games and diluted the focus on movement that was in a lot of games for Wii/WiiU. Motion control has gone mainstream too, all controllers have tilt sensitivity, so that doesn't seem as big a thing. Maybe your right that people choose to use stick controls in preference to macro-movements of controllers.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  That's because the motion controls largely didn't work for that kind of thing outside of a few gimmicky titles. Their use in the Switch is far more natural and integrated, so of course it doesn't feel like a gimmick.
- fomine3 5y ago
  So Switch combines DS/Wii/WiiU style game in one hardware. Well done.
5y ago

fho 5y ago

I guess every "you sit in a cockpit" game works very well with HMDs ... there was an early demo of a Mechwarrior style game that worked very well (for me) in VR. For me the problem is that the resolution was always lacking. With my glasses I have "better than 20/20"-vision (visus of 1.2-1.6, 120-160 visual acuity). I have not tried the newer HMDs, but with the older Oculus Rift and HTC Vive I could clearly see the individual pixels distracting me from the experience.

tiku 5y ago
The so called "screendoor effect" is not there anymore with the Quest 2 high res HMD's. My HTC vive had it and it was annoying but a good game could rule it out, with video it was visible. But on the Quest2 you can't see it.
int_19h 5y ago
For people not into sims in general, I would recommend Project Wingman as a fun gateway to this. It's arcade to the point of your typical space sim, so it's easy to get going.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

> but how is this not a fad? The wii was cool at the time too. Nintendo didn’t retain the ideas in later hardware. Hand tracking (via controllers or cameras) isn’t comparable at all to the Nintendo waggle/point/swing tech.

spywaregorilla 5y ago

The physical games are barely VR games imo. Everything is in front of you. You don't physically move where you're standing too much. Beat Saber is great fun but it can be done pretty much the same without VR, and is done, at arcades.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
No it can't? There are other rhythm games at the arcade, but they're not Beat Saber.
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  There's literal beat saber cabinets. In retrospect they may have had a helmet, but it's all rendered in front of you on a screen anyway. Aside from the wall dodging which is pretty minor, you don't need VR to play beat saber at all. All of the action happens a meter in front of you in a constant direction.
  - glenneroo 5y ago
    What are these cabinets called? I've never seen them anywhere. Do they have a VR helmet or not? If so, they are probably just clones trying to ride on the success of Beat Saber which continues to rank very high in charts of best VR games. I personally find the best Beat Saber levels are 90 degree and 360 degree, where you have to spin your body around and which wouldn't be possible in such cabinets. Also the immersion of VR is where it's at - the fact that you feel like a Jedi with your light sabers and you're cutting blocks in time with the music, while the controllers vibrate as well giving you feedback that makes your brain believe you are a Jedi.
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      They're called beat saber.
      - glenneroo 5y ago