4 ms·

> But even with these expanded resources and closer partnerships with local law enforcement, we find ourselves coming back to the same results with the Los Ang

by ethbr0 5y ago

> But even with these expanded resources and closer partnerships with local law enforcement, we find ourselves coming back to the same results with the Los Angeles County criminal justice system. Criminals are caught and arrested, turned over to local authorities for booking, arraigned before the local courts, charges are reduced to a misdemeanor or petty offense, and the criminal is released after paying a nominal fine. These individuals are generally caught and released back onto the streets in less than twenty-four hours. From experience inside a major retail chain at the national level, this is the story of retail theft in general. The interface between private security and public law enforcement is... inefficient. (To put it nicely) "Not caught here" is a real thing. Private security lays a theft case in law enforcement's lap, oftentimes better documented than police cases, and the collective response is a yawn and inaction. And while I'm a proponent of justice reform, theft is theft. We're not talking about busting someone for personal amounts of marijuana. This is forcefully choosing to break into a secure container, for purposes of stealing items of value for sale. With the resulting costs being borne by everyone who uses the system.

chris11 5y ago
> From experience inside a major retail chain at the national level, this is the story of retail theft in general. I thought it was common at some places, like Target, to track but not report shoplifting until it qualified for a felony. Then once the shoplifter had stolen enough to be charged for a felony they were prosecuted.
- pkaeding 5y ago
  Years ago, I worked for a regional discount retail chain, in the Loss Prevention department (my job was installing cameras and other low-voltage systems). The focus of LP there (and probably at most retail places) was internal theft. They would try to discourage shoplifting, but employees stealing represented much bigger losses. I remember hearing one of the guys reviewing video tape saying that they were tallying up a bunch of thefts (in this case, the subject was a cashier, and he was pretending to ring up items for his friends and family, but not really scanning it). The kid was 17, going to turn 18 in a couple weeks. The guy reviewing the tape joked about how the tally would be $1000 shortly after his birthday, when he would be an adult: "Happy birthday, you're under arrest for grand larceny". It was sickening. I enjoyed my job, and I didn't mind if criminals were caught and prosecuted, but the attitude that led to jokes like that didn't sit well with me.
  - kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
    > employees stealing represented much bigger losses This is why the Walmart "greeters" have their backs to the door and insist on evaluating your property after purchase to sniff out rogue cashiers helping a friend slip by with unpaid goods.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    To parent comment and yours, I think it's that the work vs results only merited pursuing it if it were a higher charge. There were enough organized theft rings that it kept loss prevention busy, without doing reams of paperwork for misdemeanor theft. And yes, internal theft is a huge issue. Because retail salaries usually don't compare favorably with the kickback you could get out of running a return scam, etc. As to the kid and the joke, I'd like to think it's black humor. You can only wade in the squalor of people repeatedly and constantly making shitty moral decisions for so long before you start seeing all people like that. And at that point, all you can do is joke. I mean, what, best case you alert the kid you're onto him. And then what? Better than even odds he tries again anyway.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    > It was sickening. I enjoyed my job, and I didn't mind if criminals were caught and prosecuted, but the attitude that led to jokes like that didn't sit well with me. Sounds more like dark humor. If one had a job like that for too long, watching people get off scott free much of the time, I’m sure more than a little bit of dark humor would develop.
fmajid 5y ago
In this case the problem is not law enforcement, but the DA's office that refuses to prosecute property crimes for ideological reasons.
- lesuorac 5y ago
  Whatever reason the DAs have to not prosecute these crimes, it's not the Special Directive 20-07 [1] called out in the letter [2]. UP is very clear that there is "armed robbery" which would count as a felony while the Special Directive 20-07 only deals with lowering "misdemeanor convictions". [1]: https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRECTIVE-20-07.pdf https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRE... [2] > UP and our goods movement partners strongly urge you to reconsider the policies detailed in Special Directive 20-07
  - beerandt 5y ago
    20-07 includes non prosecution for trespassing, which seems to be the only crime the DA is willing to either charge or plea out in the majority of these cases. Presumably because of its inclusion in the directive.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  It might not even be for DA ideological reasons, but due to court/jail resources being limited. California, in particular, has been sanctioned multiple times for jail and prison overcrowding. The solution that doesn’t involve throwing more money at the problem (prosecute less) then leads to these kinds of problems.
  - fmajid 5y ago
    That is California's problem to resolve, not LA County's or its DA's.
volkl48 5y ago
Just to note, while I'm sure the relationship may still be strained - it's a different situation to any other one I can think of. -------- The railroads are a special case as they are legally authorized to have their own police forces, and do. While they're privately employed, they have the same powers as a typical cop (or more). They can get warrants, run investigations, and can make arrests anywhere in CA if the case involves the railroad. They are not semi-powerless private security. They do not need "a real cop" to make an arrest or do the police work. (although they certainly do typically work with local authorities).
- ethbr0 5y ago
  Neat! And makes sense, given railroad property is by nature multi-jurisdictional. Among other rail oddities, when looking into a rail industry job, it turns out rail employees have the only federally -administered and -funded private pension system, created by the Railroad Retirement Act (1935, same year as social security). In modern specifics, it's basically Social Security by another name. https://www.rrb.gov/Resources/LegalInformation/PartitionofRRA/The_RRA https://www.rrb.gov/Resources/LegalInformation/PartitionofRR... It's easy to forget how central rail was to this country for a century+ (and still today, if more behind the scenes).

by ethbr0 5y ago

chris11 5y ago

> From experience inside a major retail chain at the national level, this is the story of retail theft in general. I thought it was common at some places, like Target, to track but not report shoplifting until it qualified for a felony. Then once the shoplifter had stolen enough to be charged for a felony they were prosecuted.

pkaeding 5y ago
Years ago, I worked for a regional discount retail chain, in the Loss Prevention department (my job was installing cameras and other low-voltage systems). The focus of LP there (and probably at most retail places) was internal theft. They would try to discourage shoplifting, but employees stealing represented much bigger losses. I remember hearing one of the guys reviewing video tape saying that they were tallying up a bunch of thefts (in this case, the subject was a cashier, and he was pretending to ring up items for his friends and family, but not really scanning it). The kid was 17, going to turn 18 in a couple weeks. The guy reviewing the tape joked about how the tally would be $1000 shortly after his birthday, when he would be an adult: "Happy birthday, you're under arrest for grand larceny". It was sickening. I enjoyed my job, and I didn't mind if criminals were caught and prosecuted, but the attitude that led to jokes like that didn't sit well with me.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  > employees stealing represented much bigger losses This is why the Walmart "greeters" have their backs to the door and insist on evaluating your property after purchase to sniff out rogue cashiers helping a friend slip by with unpaid goods.
- ethbr0 5y ago
  To parent comment and yours, I think it's that the work vs results only merited pursuing it if it were a higher charge. There were enough organized theft rings that it kept loss prevention busy, without doing reams of paperwork for misdemeanor theft. And yes, internal theft is a huge issue. Because retail salaries usually don't compare favorably with the kickback you could get out of running a return scam, etc. As to the kid and the joke, I'd like to think it's black humor. You can only wade in the squalor of people repeatedly and constantly making shitty moral decisions for so long before you start seeing all people like that. And at that point, all you can do is joke. I mean, what, best case you alert the kid you're onto him. And then what? Better than even odds he tries again anyway.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > It was sickening. I enjoyed my job, and I didn't mind if criminals were caught and prosecuted, but the attitude that led to jokes like that didn't sit well with me. Sounds more like dark humor. If one had a job like that for too long, watching people get off scott free much of the time, I’m sure more than a little bit of dark humor would develop.

fmajid 5y ago

In this case the problem is not law enforcement, but the DA's office that refuses to prosecute property crimes for ideological reasons.

lesuorac 5y ago
Whatever reason the DAs have to not prosecute these crimes, it's not the Special Directive 20-07 [1] called out in the letter [2]. UP is very clear that there is "armed robbery" which would count as a felony while the Special Directive 20-07 only deals with lowering "misdemeanor convictions". [1]: https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRECTIVE-20-07.pdf https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/SPECIAL-DIRE... [2] > UP and our goods movement partners strongly urge you to reconsider the policies detailed in Special Directive 20-07
- beerandt 5y ago
  20-07 includes non prosecution for trespassing, which seems to be the only crime the DA is willing to either charge or plea out in the majority of these cases. Presumably because of its inclusion in the directive.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
It might not even be for DA ideological reasons, but due to court/jail resources being limited. California, in particular, has been sanctioned multiple times for jail and prison overcrowding. The solution that doesn’t involve throwing more money at the problem (prosecute less) then leads to these kinds of problems.
- fmajid 5y ago
  That is California's problem to resolve, not LA County's or its DA's.

volkl48 5y ago

Just to note, while I'm sure the relationship may still be strained - it's a different situation to any other one I can think of. -------- The railroads are a special case as they are legally authorized to have their own police forces, and do. While they're privately employed, they have the same powers as a typical cop (or more). They can get warrants, run investigations, and can make arrests anywhere in CA if the case involves the railroad. They are not semi-powerless private security. They do not need "a real cop" to make an arrest or do the police work. (although they certainly do typically work with local authorities).

ethbr0 5y ago
Neat! And makes sense, given railroad property is by nature multi-jurisdictional. Among other rail oddities, when looking into a rail industry job, it turns out rail employees have the only federally -administered and -funded private pension system, created by the Railroad Retirement Act (1935, same year as social security). In modern specifics, it's basically Social Security by another name. https://www.rrb.gov/Resources/LegalInformation/PartitionofRRA/The_RRA https://www.rrb.gov/Resources/LegalInformation/PartitionofRR... It's easy to forget how central rail was to this country for a century+ (and still today, if more behind the scenes).