6 ms·

Afaik the Antitrust law, from the third paragraph. Not American, but why is it suddenly being talked about? Is it being discussed for change right now?

MBCook 5y ago
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889903/democrats-targeted-advertising-facebook-google-surveillance https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889903/democrats-target... Bill was just announced today.
tombert 5y ago
Interesting. I've railed in the past about how much I hate advertising in any form, and the Snowden leaks made me hate the targeted ads even more. I'm somewhat of the opinion of "no one is immune to propaganda", at least not entirely. Ads serve effectively as propaganda for corporations, and sometimes literal propaganda towards politics. If Google cannot make a profit without creating a massive surveillance state, then I don't think they should be in business.
- judge2020 5y ago
  > If Google cannot make a profit without creating a massive surveillance state, then I don't think they should be in business. And yet many people don't want to pay for YT Premium. YouTube wouldn't exist if targeted ads didn't exist, and I imagine such a predicament isn't what most people envision. (and, if Google can't convert all viewers to paying customers, I don't see why another subscription-only social video platform would work either).
  - frabcus 5y ago
    Early on Google adverts were entirely targeted on search terms and made tons of money. It’s a myth that targeting users is needed - it makes more profit, and creates a moat for the ad market, but that’s all. DuckDuckGo shows this is the case.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      Google search ads are still entirely contextual - but YouTube likely doesn't have the same volume of advertisers to match how much niche content is out there.
  - MBCook 5y ago
    The bill as I understand it from reading an article or two still allows targeting based on content. So if you’re watching videos about car maintenance, they can put up ads for Pep Boys. They’re not banned from advertising totally. What they can’t do is put up ads for vacuum cleaners because you were searching for them on another site or emailed somebody about them.
  - fendy3002 5y ago
    Why nowadays people associated ads with targeted ads? Google can still show ads, just not surveillance-based info ads. I'm fine with them showing ads or even contextual (based on youtube content, blog content, etc) ads or targeted geography (based on ip address, which is already public) ads which don't need surveillance at all.
  - tombert 5y ago
    > And yet many people don't want to pay for YT Premium. YouTube wouldn't exist if targeted ads didn't exist. Is that actually true? Did pre-google YouTube have the level of targeted ads that we have right now? I would be incredibly surprised if the level of surveillance at that time was anywhere near what we have now. Granted, Youtube would almost certainly not be as profitable as it is right now, but I do think it would be possible. That said, I don't think you're wrong; things would be pretty different, but I also think this might lead to more competition in the video sharing space. As it stands right now, no one can compete with the market dominance of YouTube, particularly because of their insanely good recommendation system.
    - endisneigh 5y ago
      Pre Google YouTube was not a sustainable service nor was it nearly as big as it currently is. There isn't really any way to have a video streaming service that mainstream without ads.
      - tombert 5y ago
        I thought YouTube had ads before Google that just weren't hyper-targeted. Could be wrong on that. Even if I don't like them, I can live with contextual ads (e.g. I'm watching a video about video games and I see an ad for a Switch).
        judge2020 5y ago
        Google bought it in October 2006 [0] after it had ad concepts in August 2006 [1]. 0: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15196982 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15196982 1: https://sites.google.com/a/pressatgoogle.com/youtube5year/home/history-of-monetization-at-youtube https://sites.google.com/a/pressatgoogle.com/youtube5year/ho...
  - throwaway946513 5y ago
    YouTube wholly can exist without targeted ads. The internet and ads have existed long before YouTube, and all three can exist without tracking your life.

MBCook 5y ago

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889903/democrats-targeted-advertising-facebook-google-surveillance https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889903/democrats-target... Bill was just announced today.

tombert 5y ago

Interesting. I've railed in the past about how much I hate advertising in any form, and the Snowden leaks made me hate the targeted ads even more. I'm somewhat of the opinion of "no one is immune to propaganda", at least not entirely. Ads serve effectively as propaganda for corporations, and sometimes literal propaganda towards politics. If Google cannot make a profit without creating a massive surveillance state, then I don't think they should be in business.

judge2020 5y ago
> If Google cannot make a profit without creating a massive surveillance state, then I don't think they should be in business. And yet many people don't want to pay for YT Premium. YouTube wouldn't exist if targeted ads didn't exist, and I imagine such a predicament isn't what most people envision. (and, if Google can't convert all viewers to paying customers, I don't see why another subscription-only social video platform would work either).
- frabcus 5y ago
  Early on Google adverts were entirely targeted on search terms and made tons of money. It’s a myth that targeting users is needed - it makes more profit, and creates a moat for the ad market, but that’s all. DuckDuckGo shows this is the case.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Google search ads are still entirely contextual - but YouTube likely doesn't have the same volume of advertisers to match how much niche content is out there.
- MBCook 5y ago
  The bill as I understand it from reading an article or two still allows targeting based on content. So if you’re watching videos about car maintenance, they can put up ads for Pep Boys. They’re not banned from advertising totally. What they can’t do is put up ads for vacuum cleaners because you were searching for them on another site or emailed somebody about them.
- fendy3002 5y ago
  Why nowadays people associated ads with targeted ads? Google can still show ads, just not surveillance-based info ads. I'm fine with them showing ads or even contextual (based on youtube content, blog content, etc) ads or targeted geography (based on ip address, which is already public) ads which don't need surveillance at all.
- tombert 5y ago
  > And yet many people don't want to pay for YT Premium. YouTube wouldn't exist if targeted ads didn't exist. Is that actually true? Did pre-google YouTube have the level of targeted ads that we have right now? I would be incredibly surprised if the level of surveillance at that time was anywhere near what we have now. Granted, Youtube would almost certainly not be as profitable as it is right now, but I do think it would be possible. That said, I don't think you're wrong; things would be pretty different, but I also think this might lead to more competition in the video sharing space. As it stands right now, no one can compete with the market dominance of YouTube, particularly because of their insanely good recommendation system.
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    Pre Google YouTube was not a sustainable service nor was it nearly as big as it currently is. There isn't really any way to have a video streaming service that mainstream without ads.
    - tombert 5y ago
      I thought YouTube had ads before Google that just weren't hyper-targeted. Could be wrong on that. Even if I don't like them, I can live with contextual ads (e.g. I'm watching a video about video games and I see an ad for a Switch).
      - judge2020 5y ago
        Google bought it in October 2006 [0] after it had ad concepts in August 2006 [1]. 0: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15196982 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15196982 1: https://sites.google.com/a/pressatgoogle.com/youtube5year/home/history-of-monetization-at-youtube https://sites.google.com/a/pressatgoogle.com/youtube5year/ho...
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  YouTube wholly can exist without targeted ads. The internet and ads have existed long before YouTube, and all three can exist without tracking your life.