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Ask HN: Why the $200 Overhead on Dell XPS Laptops with Linux?
I'm not complaining, I'm just genuinely curious. When speccing out an XPS 13 Developer Edition, switching the OS from Windows to Linux bumps the price up by $200. Is it subsidizing whatever work had to go into validating that the OS works as expected on that model?
- encryptluks2 5y agoOne thing to note is that using Arch I haven't had any issues with hardware on any computer I've tried, and usually you can find a comparable Acer or MSI with much better specs for significantly less. I usually don't see much benefit with purchasing overpriced hardware.
- nicolaslem 5y agoEvery laptop is a linux laptop if you stay away from nvidia and get last year's hardware.
- adgjlsfhk1 5y agohonestly since 20.04 ubuntu or so, nvidia works pretty well on linux (other than battery life on laptops which is still not good).
- aidenn0 5y agoIf all you need is a framebuffer, nvidia is fine. However I regularly run into 3d applications that either only run (either at all, or without significant artifacts) with nouveau or only run with the nvidia binary drivers. I reboot fairly regularly just to switch between the two.
- adgjlsfhk1 5y agohuh, that hasn't been my experience at all. I don't play a ton of demanding games, but pretty much everything I have played (on 1440p monitor, RTX 2060) is capable of hitting framecaps.
- aidenn0 5y agoMaybe my card is to old? 1050Ti
- adgjlsfhk1 5y agoI'd expect that to be pretty good at 1080p. No idea what's going wrong.
- aidenn0 5y ago1200p, but I don't run anything demanding. Some games lock-up with binary drivers, others crash nouveau and compositing window-managers have different artifiacts with either oen.
- encryptluks2 5y agoAgain, no issues on Arch. People running other distros may have issues due to slower package and kernel updates.
- Nilrem404 5y agobtw
- FearlessNebula 5y agoThe advantage with XPS is not the price, but the premium quality.
- bakoo 5y agoIn my opinion XPS is about size and to an extent performance, but not better (build) quality. In my experience both the Latitude and Precision series have had fewer hardware issues despite being more prevalent, where only part of the explanation is that XPS-es are used more often by people who also travel more.
- FearlessNebula 5y agoI think we have different definitions of build quality. When I said build quality I meant it as a premium Device feel: quality materials, good keyboard and trackpad, looks nice. From the context it sounds like your definition of build quality is reliability and durability, which I would be surprised to hear their business grade laptops are better at.
- pwg 5y agoMore than likely, because switching to Linux also drops all the "paid pre-installed windows software" (companies paying Dell to pre-install their software) then this jump in price would give a hint as to how much Dell receives in payment for pre-installing all those windows extras.
- acchow 5y agoWhat is the software that gets installed and what does it do? Do they actually show ads?
- jamesy0ung 5y agoAll of that junk like Norton/MCafee/Cyberlink/Shortcuts to websites. The Norton/MCafee crap gives you a 1 year 'complimentary' subscription. Many uneducated users will then go and resubscribe to that garbage AV.
- WhyCause 5y agoNot generally, no. Most of the time, it's software that goads you into a subscription after your 30-day trial, like anti-virus packages or HP's ink subscription.
- yellowapple 5y agoOr, for that matter, Microsoft Office.
- dpark 5y agoI think it’s mostly junk like mcafee antivirus. Not strictly an ad but it’ll eventually nag you for money at some point.
- dmajor2 5y agoNorton 360, which if memory serves has been a stalwart of the preinstall game now installs an opt-in Cryptominer. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-with-a-cryptominer/comment-page-1/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/01/norton-360-now-comes-wit...
- willcipriano 5y agoLinux might be rare enough that they only make Windows machines and then have someone pull one out of the box put Linux on it if requested.
- dzhiurgis 5y agoIt’s like why alcohol free beer costs almost same in NZ - because they have to take out alcohol!
- vanviegen 5y agoSure, but you wouldn't pay any alcohol taxes, and the alcohol that's taken out can be used elsewhere. So production costs really ought to be lower. Volume might be lower too though.
- vagrantJin 5y agoThat's why I find the power of ads and marketing truly fearsome. Why buy alcohol free alcoholic beverages?
- dzhiurgis 5y agoIt does taste nice and goes well with many foods. When Lithuania banned sales on Sunday after 3PM the sales of it skyrocketed. IIRC NZ grown 100% lately too. Many people choose it when they drive. I like my 9% IPA's but when I have to drive or there's bbq party middle of the day I'll go for low alcohol ones.
- sofixa 5y agoIf you like the taste but don't want the negative parts, or if you don't want alcohol but want to feel "included" ( e.g. muslims, recovering alcoholics or just people who don't like getting "buzzed").
- vagrantJin 5y agoIncluded? If you've made the choice to not drink, is the next logical step to buy a non-alcoholic alcoholic beverage? Seems a bit more than silly.
- heyitsguay 5y agoJust ran into this buying a laptop! I bought the Windows one, nuked it, and had Ubuntu installed in like 15 minutes :D
- fnands 5y agoYeah I was kinda wondering, what's their game plan here? Hope that people don't notice the price difference and DIY it? Might just be what someone else said, this is what Dell is not being paid to pre-install whatever
- belval 5y agoPrecisely, Dell does not care and knows that people using Linux mostly likely know how to install it, so why not get the $200 from McAfee?
- closeparen 5y agoIf you install it yourself then presumably Dell is not responsible for any compatibility/quality issues.
- gambiting 5y agoWhen you work at a big company and put a request in for a laptop with Linux, then IT will just order you that Linux version of it - no one cares that there's $200 to be saved there by reinstalling the OS. IT doesn't have the time nor the need to do that - they will just order the Linux version and be done.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y agoI'd think IT would be re-imaging the laptop from a common image before giving it to the user, so they'd still be better off getting the Windows laptop and wiping it.
- gambiting 5y agoMaybe, but you might be overestimating certain IT departments. At my wife's work everyone uses windows laptops, but her team needed Macs for some technical reason, so they all got brand new Macs that IT basically refused to support, they haven't been preconfigured or anything. I feel like if she asked for a Linux laptop they would just buy her one of these and that would be it. If it breaks then Dell can deal with it.
- 908B64B197 5y ago> Is it subsidizing whatever work had to go into validating that the OS works as expected on that model? I think you nailed it. Free as in freedom, not free beer.
- yumraj 5y agoIt is possible that it is strategic, to discourage customers from purchasing a Linux laptop. This could be for various reasons, such as: 1) Their production pipeline is optimized for windows, so Linux is a deviation requiring some manual intervention that costs extra. 2) Deals with Microsoft, wherein MS incentivizes them Dell based on some criteria, including but not limited to units sold. This is similar to car dealerships with quotas. 3) As others have noted, 3rd Party crapware deals for putting preinstalled crapware on Windows laptops. Fewer such opportunities exist for Linux laptops
- caditinpiscinam 5y agoOn the other hand, the fact that Dell offers a linux option is still helpful to users even if it's overpriced, since it signals that the hardware will likely be compatible if you go the self-install route. Then Dell gets to sell windows laptops to linux users with a wink and a nod and both parties benefit financially
- terinjokes 5y agoNote that Dell uses different hardware inside machines between the Windows and Linux SKUs for the same model (mostly: wifi and bluetooth, but occasionally other things).
- gwbas1c 5y agoMakes me wonder: If Dell sold a Linux laptop for cheaper, what would happen? Would a lot of people return it? Call up customer support confused?
- Irishsteve 5y agoPerhaps they need to pay extra for Linux IT people which they only cover if your original purchase is a Linux install (plus other reasons given in thread)
- zaidhaan 5y agoA bit off-topic, but if that's the case, then why don't you just buy the Windows version, then wipe the disk and install Linux on it. You effectively save yourself $200. Is there something I'm missing? Does selecting the developer version use different hardware that has better Linux support?
- PostThisTooFast 5y ago
- leetcrew 5y agothe kaby lake xps 13 linux skus had a different wifi card that was more reliable on linux (and arguably in general). could be some other subtle differences like that. to me it's easily worth $200 to not deal with those sorts of issues. also, I believe they sometimes don't offer the lowest tier windows hardware with linux at all.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y agoExcept that a wifi card costs $20.
- zaidhaan 5y agoExactly. I feel like the costs of swapping out such components for better ones likely wouldn't exceed $200. Maybe pwg is right and the discounted price with Windows is due to the paid pre-installed software. But that still leaves the customer with complete freedom to install something else on it.
- avianlyric 5y agoDepends how much you value your time, and how many laptops you’re buying. Some people want their laptop to work out of the box, and will happily pay $200 to ensure they get a HW/SW combo that’s been validated to work together by the manufacturer. If you’re a company buying 10+ laptops, paying an extra $200 per laptop is probably cheaper than the faff of separately finding and acquiring wifi cards, then finding the time to swap them all.
- Thoreandan 5y agorelevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_of_Microsoft_Windows https://marc.merlins.org/linux/refundday/ https://marc.merlins.org/linux/refundday/
- jabyess 5y agoThis is surprising to me because it wasn't that long ago (~3-4 years) that I bought an XPS developer edition and it was $100 cheaper than the windows version. At the time, I assumed that was just the cost of the windows license.
- random_dork1 5y agoSame here
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tomxor 5y agoI will go to great lengths to avoid funding Microsoft or Apple even if it costs me money. That and It's a way for me to signal interest in Linux support to a hardware vendor (whatever that's worth).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Kon-Peki 5y agoOn the Dell website, you can check out their workstations and see some of the price differences. For example, choose the Precision line. Then for any computer that has a "show all choices" when it lists the operating system, choose the customize option and you can see the prices for all the OS options they give. I randomly chose an i5 desktop and from Windows 10 Pro switching to Ubuntu 20.04 reduces the price by $75, but switching to Red Hat increases the price by $70.
- globalise83 5y agoBecause you are more likely to be a professional software engineer with a whopping salary and lower price sensitivity :) Or am I too cynical about our dear colleagues in marketing?
- bunabhucan 5y agoCould it just be that Linux Dell XPS buyers are less price sensitive? There's and underlying assumption in the question that increased Dell pricing is justified by increased Dell expenditure.
- asteroidp 5y agoAnd the fingerprint scanner won't even work and power management will be last class
- Vixel 5y agoDell is in bed with Microsoft and needs to do everything they can to make you think twice about your OS
- rickstanley 5y agoAnd also, why not change the Windows button symbol?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- marius_k 5y agoIt is because linux is superior!
- simonblack 5y agoJust take advantage of the Windows-environment subsidies. Save yourself a few bucks. Buy the system with the Windows OS. Back up the OS to a USB thumb drive and store it away carefully. You may need that to reinstall Windows if you want to sell the machine off a year or two later. Wipe the hard drive completely by installing a new partition table. Install your own favorite Linux distro. Almost invariably, the Linux distro that could come with that machine, is a distro that you wouldn't normally use.
- sagarm 5y agoI was able to install Windows onto a laptop that had been running Ubuntu only for years without any trouble using just a Windows installer USB. You don't need to save the original image, especially given it's full of crapware.
- bunabhucan 5y agoCould it just be that Linux Dell XPS buyers are less price sensitive? There's an underlying assumption in the question that increased Dell pricing is justified by increased Dell expenditure.
- wesapien 5y agoAny differences in hardware between the normal and developer editon? Could you just wipe the Windows and install Linux over.
- NorwegianDude 5y agoIf you read what the page and price says you'll see that there is a couple of offers available now that reduced the windows price with ~260 USD. "Price Includes $250 off through Dell Small Business. Special Offer"
- somenewaccount1 5y agoMy guess is they know Linux loyalists or newbs will just say ok and pay the money. The rest of the users get it with windows and load their own. It's just kind of a stupidity tax, because they can. I doubt it's because they have to any extra cost to their process.
- barton808 5y agoAll, this is a glitch and not intended (as you would expect our Linux based systems are less expensive than our comparable Windows configurations). The team is working to correct this. Thanks for flagging it! Barton George, Dell
- MikeBVaughn 5y agoThank you for the info; I appreciate the transparency!
- barton808 5y agoand I appreciate the heads up :)