6 ms·

Microsoft is not building the future of gaming, they're buying it. Seeing a bunch of excellent third-party cross-platform games become xbox-exclusive is really

by awill 5y ago

Microsoft is not building the future of gaming, they're buying it. Seeing a bunch of excellent third-party cross-platform games become xbox-exclusive is really sad for gamers. Microsoft has not been making money on xbox. They're not investing money made with xbox. They're using Office/Windows/Azure funds to boost Xbox, and it's not a fair fight. Sony and Nintendo don't have that kind of money. I get Sony has acquired studios too, but by comparison they seem carefully planned. They're usually studios already making (mostly) playstation exclusives (e.g. devs of Returnal, Spider-Man and Dark Souls).

taf2 5y ago
I don’t know age of empires 4 seems pretty good to me…
lopis 5y ago
I'm still surprised that to this day Minecraft Java was allowed to survive (albeit just so slightly behind Minecraft Bedrock, but still with some extra features).
- erwincoumans 5y ago
  Here my kids prefers the Java edition, for its mods.
  - torginus 5y ago
    It's crazy to think that the no.1 best selling video game of all time (by copies sold) derives a large part of it's values from the free work of volunteers.
    - redisman 5y ago
      Meh that’s how things worked in the 90s and the 2000s. Counter strike was a mod as were many other household names
  - Spivak 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't know many people who are playing bedrock because of the spotty mod support and the weird redstone differences making complicated designs harder for no user-visible reason -- I'm sure the code is nicer.
    - beart 5y ago
      My kids play bedrock because it's cross platform (mostly) and they can play on the switch, PC, tablets, etc. I wish they could use the Java version to do that, because bedrock is awful in a lot of ways. Microsoft seems entirely focused on merchandising, paid DLC, and driving users toward their paid server offerings. The game itself feels like it has been largely in maintenance mode for a long time, other than the recent caverns update. It blows my mind when I think about how much money Minecraft must be worth, and how big MS is. Compare that to an indie game like Terraria, Stardew Valley, or Factorio and the difference in quality is night and day.
Server6 5y ago
Sony spent 20+ years building up and planning their 1st party studios. Microsoft could do that too, but it would take 20 more years. They don't have the time for that and acquisition is really their only option. I don't like it either, but that's the reality of it.
- benlumen 5y ago
  It's not like Microsoft couldn't have done that from the start. They were the software company, after all, so they probably should have done. They're both over 20 years into the game, now.
  - jayd16 5y ago
    MS HAS owned and operated game studios for 20 years. This acquisition doesn't fundamentally change how MS approaches game development.
    - benlumen 5y ago
      You're right - but when you look at the list of Playstation exclusives vs Xbox exclusives, you'd hardly know it. A lot of people buy Playstations because there's nothing of interest on Xbox that they can't have.
  - AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
    Didn't it come out recently that they tried to buy Sega 20 years ago, when they were just getting into the business with the XBOX? EDIT: They tried to buy Nintendo, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672443
- awill 5y ago
  Agree. If I were in charge at MS, I might have done this too. I can't blame them. But I imagine Sony execs are struggling to comprehend what's going on. They've done so much right in the last few years. They've built some of the best studios in the world. They've delivered the best exclusive AAA content. Just in the last few years: The Last of us Part 2, Ghosts of Tsushima, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted.... And despite that, they still might not come out on top. Life isn't fair :). >> Sony spent 20+ years building up and planning their 1st party studios. Microsoft could do that too, but it would take 20 more years. Ironically, the Xbox (OG) was released 20 years ago.
benlumen 5y ago
> Microsoft has not been making money on xbox. They're not investing money made with xbox. They're using Office/Windows/Azure funds to boost Xbox, and it's not a fair fight. Sony and Nintendo don't have that kind of money. Torn on this. On the one hand I completely agree. I doubt there'll be any anti-trust action, first because that doesn't seem to be a thing anymore and second because I can't imagine the American authorities getting in the way of Microsoft's competition with what are, at the end of the day, Japanese companies. As a gamer who's loved Activision's franchises since childhood, they've run them all into the ground and if Microsoft can do better with them then let them try. Side thought - maybe Nintendo and Sony will finally join forces to compete, as they almost did in the 90s.
- peanuty1 5y ago
  Xbox and Nintendo actually joined forces recently to make cross-play happen.
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    Of what?
    - baud147258 5y ago
      I've found an older list in that article: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-xbox-one-and-nintendo-switch-cross-play https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-xbox-one-and-nintendo... Notably: Rocket League, Minecraft, Fortnight, Apex Legend, Overwatch
      - ghostly_s 5y ago
        Those are all games that implemented their own cross-play, no assistance from Nintendo.
- amyjess 5y ago
  The purpose of antitrust law is to prevent monopolies, not to prevent industry consolidation. Consolidation is fine in the eyes of the law, but monopolistic behavior isn't. No antitrust action will be taken because even after all these acquisitions, Microsoft still competes with Take-Two, EA, Nintendo, Square Enix, Sony, Tencent, etc., plus a vast number of smaller players (Paradox, Sega, the sixteen gazillion indie developers on Steam...).
raxxorrax 5y ago
Also the tactic to use scandals for a drop in market cap before acquisition is quite common in IT. Last year they were valued for 30bn more. Activision/Blizzard certainly had a big sales tag on their forehead.
- NavinF 5y ago
  > Last year they were valued for 30bn more On what day? Looks like they dropped from 70bn last year same time to ~50bn at the start of the year and then sold for 69bn.
mdoms 5y ago
> Seeing a bunch of excellent third-party cross-platform games become xbox-exclusive is really sad for gamers What are you talking about? Microsoft is embracing PC and cross play more than ever.
- skohan 5y ago
  They will be MS exclusive. It's fine if you're a windows gamer, but this is bad news for anyone who plays games on Playstation, Linux/Steam/Proton, or Nintendo platforms. It also really should be the target of anti-trust action if that was a thing anymore. It's going to be a reality fairly soon that anyone who wants to play all the latest AAA titles will have to own at least two gaming devices. That's not only annoying from a consumer perspective, but it's counter-productive from the perspective of how much redundant hardware it means in the midst of a chip shortage.
  - doikor 5y ago
    > but this is bad news for anyone who plays games on Playstation, Linux/Steam/Proton, or Nintendo platforms. Microsoft has been releasing their PC games on Steam the same day they do on their own store for a few years now.
    - awill 5y ago
      I'm hopeful this continues. I'm sure it's deliberate to make GamePass seem like a killer deal. Hey, it worked for Netflix. Spend $100 on a dvd boxset of your favourite TV series, or stream it all for $10/mo
    - skohan 5y ago
      Do you really expect them to continue this practice if they own a dominant share of exclusive new games? With Minecraft they did the opposite: they made bedrock a windows exclusive, and required going through the MS storefront to access it. MS's track record seems to be only to be pro-consumer so long as it helps their bottom line.
  - awill 5y ago
no_wizard 5y ago
Doesn't Sony have an insurance / financial business subsidizing their operations[0]? Not to mention a movie studio that rakes in the cash, especially since riding the backs of Disney with Marvel[1] The interesting one here for me has always been Nintendo, they are a still a pure gamers play, and have managed to thrive in a world of shifting sands, sometimes bucking entire trends in the industry with success, like going all in on the Nintendo Switch form factor (a lot of the industry people thought mobile gaming consoles were dead in the water) I think there's a lot of competition in this space still, and while I don't like consolidation either, its also hard to say Activision Blizzard is a well managed company at this point [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its-not-electronics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bre... [1]: https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-sony-most-profitable-film-projection/ https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-sony-most-profita...
- edgyquant 5y ago
  While Sony is a medium sized corporation its revenue is 10% that of Microsoft.
k12sosse 5y ago
Microsoft didn't invent (video game) platform exclusivity, they merely have perfected it. Thank Sony and rockstar games or Activision, ironically, for this, going all the way back to.. GTA San Andreas, or Tony Hawk franchise.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Any economic statement can be turned around and stated in the reverse way. Maybe it's the gamers who are unwilling to pay enough for games, so the only companies that can afford to make games are console vendors?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
screye 5y ago
Microsoft just purchased a bunch of has-been IPs that still have great amount of nostalgia. When Zenimax was acquired, it was coming off a couple of failed fallout games, a meh ESO and delayed Elder scrolls 6. Similarly, Activision-Blizzard has been in the midst of COD and Overwatch losing their gaming monopoly to Fortnite, Blizzard failing to create a good game for about 5 years and the big workplace lawsuit. It feels like Microsoft is taking on the challenge of reviving these companies back to being the powerhouses of old. In that sense it is a big challenge and not as simple as just buying the future of gaming. If they wanted to do that, they'd probably try to buy Naughty Dog or Fortnite. It's like acquiring Fiat Chrysler or General motors. Still big names, but clearly not the 'brands of the decade'. You wouldn't buy them to form a monopoly. You'd buy them to revive the brand.
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  >Microsoft just purchased a bunch of has-been IPs that still have great amount of nostalgia The #1 and #2 titles of 2021 are has-beens? And they also had the #1 and #2 of 2020. https://venturebeat.com/2022/01/18/npd-the-top-20-best-selling-games-of-2021-in-the-u-s/ https://venturebeat.com/2022/01/18/npd-the-top-20-best-selli... https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/npd-reveals-the-best-selling-games-of-2020-in-the-u-s/ https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/npd-reveals-the-best-sell...
  - screye 5y ago
    Call of duty makes most of its income through sales. So, the revenue seems a lot higher than it actually is. Relatively speaking COD sales have stagnated for a decade [1] while the gaming industry has exploded. In terms of revenue, Fortnite and PUBG eclipse COD's annual revenue [2], while having lower development costs. COD is admittedly not a has been, but it is like a top athlete in the twilight of their career. Still performing at the top, but no more #1 and the trends aren't looking great. [1] https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty [2] https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_video_games https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_vid...
shadowgovt 5y ago
Honestly, there are so many games these days, I no longer notice when something goes exclusive. I hear Horizon: Zero Dawn was great. Didn't play it. Didn't pick it up when it stopped being an exclusive because it was no longer new by the time it hit PC. My dance card is so full of Steam Early Access that I don't even have time for exclusives these days.
torbital 5y ago
sounds like AWS funding everything else Amazon does that isn't profitable, this isn't a new strategy
octodog 5y ago
> Microsoft has not been making money on xbox. They're not investing money made with xbox. Source on this? They have said in the past that they lose money on xbox unit sales but are very profitable from software/game sales. As far as I know there is no public information to suggest otherwise. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/448650/microsoft-the-xbox-division-is-profitable-and-a-high-growth-business/ https://www.vgchartz.com/article/448650/microsoft-the-xbox-d...

by awill 5y ago

taf2 5y ago

I don’t know age of empires 4 seems pretty good to me…

lopis 5y ago

I'm still surprised that to this day Minecraft Java was allowed to survive (albeit just so slightly behind Minecraft Bedrock, but still with some extra features).

erwincoumans 5y ago
Here my kids prefers the Java edition, for its mods.
- torginus 5y ago
  It's crazy to think that the no.1 best selling video game of all time (by copies sold) derives a large part of it's values from the free work of volunteers.
  - redisman 5y ago
    Meh that’s how things worked in the 90s and the 2000s. Counter strike was a mod as were many other household names
- Spivak 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't know many people who are playing bedrock because of the spotty mod support and the weird redstone differences making complicated designs harder for no user-visible reason -- I'm sure the code is nicer.
  - beart 5y ago
    My kids play bedrock because it's cross platform (mostly) and they can play on the switch, PC, tablets, etc. I wish they could use the Java version to do that, because bedrock is awful in a lot of ways. Microsoft seems entirely focused on merchandising, paid DLC, and driving users toward their paid server offerings. The game itself feels like it has been largely in maintenance mode for a long time, other than the recent caverns update. It blows my mind when I think about how much money Minecraft must be worth, and how big MS is. Compare that to an indie game like Terraria, Stardew Valley, or Factorio and the difference in quality is night and day.

Server6 5y ago

Sony spent 20+ years building up and planning their 1st party studios. Microsoft could do that too, but it would take 20 more years. They don't have the time for that and acquisition is really their only option. I don't like it either, but that's the reality of it.

benlumen 5y ago
It's not like Microsoft couldn't have done that from the start. They were the software company, after all, so they probably should have done. They're both over 20 years into the game, now.
- jayd16 5y ago
  MS HAS owned and operated game studios for 20 years. This acquisition doesn't fundamentally change how MS approaches game development.
  - benlumen 5y ago
    You're right - but when you look at the list of Playstation exclusives vs Xbox exclusives, you'd hardly know it. A lot of people buy Playstations because there's nothing of interest on Xbox that they can't have.
- AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
  Didn't it come out recently that they tried to buy Sega 20 years ago, when they were just getting into the business with the XBOX? EDIT: They tried to buy Nintendo, too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25672443
awill 5y ago
Agree. If I were in charge at MS, I might have done this too. I can't blame them. But I imagine Sony execs are struggling to comprehend what's going on. They've done so much right in the last few years. They've built some of the best studios in the world. They've delivered the best exclusive AAA content. Just in the last few years: The Last of us Part 2, Ghosts of Tsushima, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Uncharted.... And despite that, they still might not come out on top. Life isn't fair :). >> Sony spent 20+ years building up and planning their 1st party studios. Microsoft could do that too, but it would take 20 more years. Ironically, the Xbox (OG) was released 20 years ago.

benlumen 5y ago

> Microsoft has not been making money on xbox. They're not investing money made with xbox. They're using Office/Windows/Azure funds to boost Xbox, and it's not a fair fight. Sony and Nintendo don't have that kind of money. Torn on this. On the one hand I completely agree. I doubt there'll be any anti-trust action, first because that doesn't seem to be a thing anymore and second because I can't imagine the American authorities getting in the way of Microsoft's competition with what are, at the end of the day, Japanese companies. As a gamer who's loved Activision's franchises since childhood, they've run them all into the ground and if Microsoft can do better with them then let them try. Side thought - maybe Nintendo and Sony will finally join forces to compete, as they almost did in the 90s.

peanuty1 5y ago
Xbox and Nintendo actually joined forces recently to make cross-play happen.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  Of what?
  - baud147258 5y ago
    I've found an older list in that article: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-xbox-one-and-nintendo-switch-cross-play https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-xbox-one-and-nintendo... Notably: Rocket League, Minecraft, Fortnight, Apex Legend, Overwatch
    - ghostly_s 5y ago
      Those are all games that implemented their own cross-play, no assistance from Nintendo.
amyjess 5y ago
The purpose of antitrust law is to prevent monopolies, not to prevent industry consolidation. Consolidation is fine in the eyes of the law, but monopolistic behavior isn't. No antitrust action will be taken because even after all these acquisitions, Microsoft still competes with Take-Two, EA, Nintendo, Square Enix, Sony, Tencent, etc., plus a vast number of smaller players (Paradox, Sega, the sixteen gazillion indie developers on Steam...).

raxxorrax 5y ago

Also the tactic to use scandals for a drop in market cap before acquisition is quite common in IT. Last year they were valued for 30bn more. Activision/Blizzard certainly had a big sales tag on their forehead.

NavinF 5y ago
> Last year they were valued for 30bn more On what day? Looks like they dropped from 70bn last year same time to ~50bn at the start of the year and then sold for 69bn.

mdoms 5y ago

> Seeing a bunch of excellent third-party cross-platform games become xbox-exclusive is really sad for gamers What are you talking about? Microsoft is embracing PC and cross play more than ever.

skohan 5y ago
They will be MS exclusive. It's fine if you're a windows gamer, but this is bad news for anyone who plays games on Playstation, Linux/Steam/Proton, or Nintendo platforms. It also really should be the target of anti-trust action if that was a thing anymore. It's going to be a reality fairly soon that anyone who wants to play all the latest AAA titles will have to own at least two gaming devices. That's not only annoying from a consumer perspective, but it's counter-productive from the perspective of how much redundant hardware it means in the midst of a chip shortage.
- doikor 5y ago
  > but this is bad news for anyone who plays games on Playstation, Linux/Steam/Proton, or Nintendo platforms. Microsoft has been releasing their PC games on Steam the same day they do on their own store for a few years now.
  - awill 5y ago
    I'm hopeful this continues. I'm sure it's deliberate to make GamePass seem like a killer deal. Hey, it worked for Netflix. Spend $100 on a dvd boxset of your favourite TV series, or stream it all for $10/mo
  - skohan 5y ago
    Do you really expect them to continue this practice if they own a dominant share of exclusive new games? With Minecraft they did the opposite: they made bedrock a windows exclusive, and required going through the MS storefront to access it. MS's track record seems to be only to be pro-consumer so long as it helps their bottom line.
- awill 5y ago

no_wizard 5y ago

Doesn't Sony have an insurance / financial business subsidizing their operations[0]? Not to mention a movie studio that rakes in the cash, especially since riding the backs of Disney with Marvel[1] The interesting one here for me has always been Nintendo, they are a still a pure gamers play, and have managed to thrive in a world of shifting sands, sometimes bucking entire trends in the industry with success, like going all in on the Nintendo Switch form factor (a lot of the industry people thought mobile gaming consoles were dead in the water) I think there's a lot of competition in this space still, and while I don't like consolidation either, its also hard to say Activision Blizzard is a well managed company at this point [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its-not-electronics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bre... [1]: https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-sony-most-profitable-film-projection/ https://www.cbr.com/spider-man-no-way-home-sony-most-profita...

edgyquant 5y ago
While Sony is a medium sized corporation its revenue is 10% that of Microsoft.

k12sosse 5y ago

Microsoft didn't invent (video game) platform exclusivity, they merely have perfected it. Thank Sony and rockstar games or Activision, ironically, for this, going all the way back to.. GTA San Andreas, or Tony Hawk franchise.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Any economic statement can be turned around and stated in the reverse way. Maybe it's the gamers who are unwilling to pay enough for games, so the only companies that can afford to make games are console vendors?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

screye 5y ago

Microsoft just purchased a bunch of has-been IPs that still have great amount of nostalgia. When Zenimax was acquired, it was coming off a couple of failed fallout games, a meh ESO and delayed Elder scrolls 6. Similarly, Activision-Blizzard has been in the midst of COD and Overwatch losing their gaming monopoly to Fortnite, Blizzard failing to create a good game for about 5 years and the big workplace lawsuit. It feels like Microsoft is taking on the challenge of reviving these companies back to being the powerhouses of old. In that sense it is a big challenge and not as simple as just buying the future of gaming. If they wanted to do that, they'd probably try to buy Naughty Dog or Fortnite. It's like acquiring Fiat Chrysler or General motors. Still big names, but clearly not the 'brands of the decade'. You wouldn't buy them to form a monopoly. You'd buy them to revive the brand.

WillPostForFood 5y ago
>Microsoft just purchased a bunch of has-been IPs that still have great amount of nostalgia The #1 and #2 titles of 2021 are has-beens? And they also had the #1 and #2 of 2020. https://venturebeat.com/2022/01/18/npd-the-top-20-best-selling-games-of-2021-in-the-u-s/ https://venturebeat.com/2022/01/18/npd-the-top-20-best-selli... https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/npd-reveals-the-best-selling-games-of-2020-in-the-u-s/ https://venturebeat.com/2021/01/15/npd-reveals-the-best-sell...
- screye 5y ago
  Call of duty makes most of its income through sales. So, the revenue seems a lot higher than it actually is. Relatively speaking COD sales have stagnated for a decade [1] while the gaming industry has exploded. In terms of revenue, Fortnite and PUBG eclipse COD's annual revenue [2], while having lower development costs. COD is admittedly not a has been, but it is like a top athlete in the twilight of their career. Still performing at the top, but no more #1 and the trends aren't looking great. [1] https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Call_of_Duty [2] https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_video_games https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_vid...

shadowgovt 5y ago

Honestly, there are so many games these days, I no longer notice when something goes exclusive. I hear Horizon: Zero Dawn was great. Didn't play it. Didn't pick it up when it stopped being an exclusive because it was no longer new by the time it hit PC. My dance card is so full of Steam Early Access that I don't even have time for exclusives these days.

torbital 5y ago

sounds like AWS funding everything else Amazon does that isn't profitable, this isn't a new strategy

octodog 5y ago

> Microsoft has not been making money on xbox. They're not investing money made with xbox. Source on this? They have said in the past that they lose money on xbox unit sales but are very profitable from software/game sales. As far as I know there is no public information to suggest otherwise. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/448650/microsoft-the-xbox-division-is-profitable-and-a-high-growth-business/ https://www.vgchartz.com/article/448650/microsoft-the-xbox-d...