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With these kind of acquisitions, other companies are going to find it very hard to compete with Game Pass. I think we'll look back in 10 years and wonder why a
by agd 5y ago
With these kind of acquisitions, other companies are going to find it very hard to compete with Game Pass.
I think we'll look back in 10 years and wonder why antitrust regulators did nothing, but it may be too late by then.
- koheripbal 5y agoThere are so many gaming companies and platforms... An Anti trust case would be very hard to make.
- palijer 5y agoI looked around for a while, a d I can't actually find a list of any mergers that antitrust regulations actually prevented. I'm assuming some survivor bias is involved here and we don't hear about the ones that stopped early, but it seems that what I and most folks assume antitrust regulations do is different than what actually happens. I remember the Sirius/XM merge and how those were the only two players in the market, and it was wild to me how that was allowed to happen.
- coldpie 5y agoIt does happen, but it's pretty rare. One example that comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobile_USA_by_AT%26T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_purchase_of_T-Mobile...
- forkerenok 5y agoAnd another fairly recent one: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/business/visa-plaid-terminate-merger/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/business/visa-plaid-termi... (Visa + Plaid)
- NetBeck 5y agoThat failed merger's poison pill is the reason T-Mobile is the juggernaut it is today. The cash T-Mobile received allowed them to upgrade their network, and customers could roam free on AT&T's 1700MHz frequency. AT&T's threat assessment of T-Mobile was correct at the time.
- pessimizer 5y ago> AT&T's threat assessment of T-Mobile was correct at the time. I think that assessment was obvious to everyone at the time. The question is whether buying out competitors is good for the public. Of course, the cash was a penalty for not being able to pull off the merger; if the cash was critical for T-Mobile to become the threat it has been, the outcome is ironic.
- ece 5y agoI don't know what the breakup cash might have amounted to, but the AT&T roaming agreement was for 7 years, and it's only recently with n41/n71 that T-Mobile has done any better. The equivalent for this merger would be something like Minecraft and Bethesda games on the A-B launcher for 7 years. Huge giveaway by AT&T I think, as foolish as it might have been for them to think the merger would actually go through; having at-least 4 major carriers was policy at the time and still is (Dish's spectrum hoarding notwithstanding).
- mchesters 5y agoNvidia/Arm comes to mind as a recent acquisition prevented.
- laputan_machine 5y agoBecause of the UK's CMA. the US equivalent does not seem to care about preventing these giant mergers as much. https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/nvidia-slash-arm-merger-inquiry https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/nvidia-slash-arm-merger-inquiry
- chronogram 5y ago“Mergers: Commission opens in-depth investigation into proposed acquisition of Arm by NVIDIA” 27 October 2021 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_5624 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_... “FTC Sues to Block $40 Billion Semiconductor Chip Merger” 2 December 2021 https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2021/12/ftc-sues-block-40-billion-semiconductor-chip-merger https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2021/12/ftc-s...
- strulovich 5y agoMeta’s (Facebook) acquisition of Giphy got blocked by European regulators iirc.
- perbu 5y agoUK, I think. Still a weird decision. Of all the stuff Facebook bought they blocked Giphy. Not Whatsapp, Instagram, etc.
- Hamuko 5y agoI imagine that if Facebook tried to buy Whatsapp or Instagram toady, they would be facing a different kind of a regulatory environment. It feels like the world has only recently awakened to how Facebook just tries to buy out their competition.
- apocalyptic0n3 5y agoAT&T's acquisition of T-Mobile was aborted due to anti-trust complaints if I recall correctly. The original purchase of Rite Aid by Walgreens was aborted due to similar concerns, although that one ended in a revised partial acquisition anyway. The Staples acquisition of Office Depot/Office Max was stopped as well on anti-trust grounds. They also blocked a merger of Nasdaq and NYSE. Those are all since 2010. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few big ones too. They should definitely be blocking more, but they have stopped some.
- PascLeRasc 5y agoIntuit was blocked from buying Credit Karma Tax just recently. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-divestiture-credit-karma-tax-intuit-proceed-acquisition-credit https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-requires-d...
- vl 5y agoAnd MS from buying Intuit
- LadyCailin 5y agoThank goodness, they don’t need any more power over people.
- wayoutthere 5y agoThey blocked Comcast from merging with Time Warner Cable. By “they” I’m referring to AT&T and Verizon (the two biggest telecom providers in the US), who were afraid of a third telecom provider establishing a national footprint and potentially challenging them across wireless and wireline. By preventing the merger through their immense political connections, they keep both Comcast and TWC as regional players who are much easier to monopolize. So even the antitrust that goes through usually only goes through because powerful (often monopolistic) forces want to block a merger, not because it’s what’s objectively best for competition.
- RC_ITR 5y agoIt's also worth noting the FTC (not just the Justice Department) can sue to block mergers on competitive grounds: see Visa <> Plaid from 2020.
- sofixa 5y agoIn the EU, Siemens and Alstom weren't allowed to merge their train divisions without significant divestment. Same for Daewoo and Hyundai shipbuilding just last week.
- umeshunni 5y agoVisa/Plaid very recently https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/visa-and-plaid-abandon-merger-after-antitrust-division-s-suit-block https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/visa-and-plaid-abandon-merger...
- cjf4 5y agoGE Honeywell was a huge one. https://www.rferl.org/a/1096891.html https://www.rferl.org/a/1096891.html
- dls2016 5y ago> I looked around for a while, a d I can't actually find a list of any mergers that antitrust regulations actually prevented. A lot has been written about the decline of antitrust enforcement in the US since 1970. https://hbr.org/2017/12/the-rise-fall-and-rebirth-of-the-u-s-antitrust-movement https://hbr.org/2017/12/the-rise-fall-and-rebirth-of-the-u-s...
- JohnJamesRambo 5y agoI think this is a huge source of a lot of the wealth inequality and just general dystopia we find ourselves living in. We need some sort of commoner lobbyist organization we can all be part of, the voting doesn't seem to be working very well. You have to literally pay the politicians.
- kthejoker2 5y agoHalliburton / Baker Hughes merger was preemptively cancelled due to regulation
- GeekyBear 5y ago> I looked around for a while, a d I can't actually find a list of any mergers that antitrust regulations actually prevented. Just today, the DOJ and FTC announced plans to toughen up on mergers and acquisitions. >The Federal Trade Commission and Department of Justice Antitrust Division kicked off a process to rewrite merger guidelines for businesses on Tuesday, signaling a tougher stance toward large deals. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/ftc-doj-seek-to-rewrite-merger-guidelines.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/ftc-doj-seek-to-rewrite-merg...
- fomine3 5y agoQualcomm and Broadcom
- tradertef 5y agoIt wasn't antitrust. It is more like "national security".
- Keyframe 5y agoNvidia/ARM doesn't look healthy anymore.
- 999900000999 5y agoAs a GamePass subscriber, I mildly disagree. Saw an indie game last night and felt like buying it. Steam Deck is Valve opening up an alternative to Microsoft land. Although I will admit I'm tempted to cancel my pre order since I'm worried it won't run well.
- izacus 5y agoI don't quite understand what you're trying to say here? If Microsoft starts subsidizing Game Pass games from their other businesses (like Amazon, Google and Apple do for their other services), it'll make the business model of actually selling games unviable by pure race to the bottom. As a result, you'll lose independent development and market diversity because everyone will need to beg Microsoft (and maybe Sony and Apple as other megacorps) for money scraps. This is very similar what actually happened in mobile games market - a race to the bottom that only left a few winners filled with exploitative anti-patterns that feed on peoples addiction to recoup their costs instead of selling the product. It'll of course be amazing for users - games will be cheap! And free! Just like views on YouTube are, where creators are getting more and more burned out fighting against the algorithm which decides how much they deserve to be paid.
- cloogshicer 5y agoI don't think it'll be amazing for users. The mobile market is just awful. It's almost impossible to find any good games that don't use these exploitative methods.
- izacus 5y agoYeah, I should really add "At least in the beginning" part - those systems are very great at the start as they try to siphon as much use as possible and trap them into the walled garden.
- cloogshicer 5y agoAgreed. It's a very deceptive business practice.
- YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y agoAt this rate it's going to be Tencent vs Microsoft and if I have to choose I pick Microsoft.
- Ekaros 5y agoOn gaming side the Microsoft from big players actually producing games seem the least bad option. Lot less bullshit in general than likes of Ubisoft and EA or Activision.
- anaganisk 5y ago
- viktorcode 5y agoThere's a difference though. Tencent doesn't dictate its studios how to conduct business. Microsoft on the other hand made Bethesda leave PlayStation, which negatively impacts their revenue, but plays into the hand of Microsoft.
- Lio 5y ago> Tencent doesn't dictate its studios how to conduct business. Isn't that exactly what Tencent are well known for doing?[1] > According to the designer, Riot managers had provided a PowerPoint presentation that she assumed Tencent had made for them, although she didn’t know for sure. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/15/china-video-game-censorship-tencent-netease-blizzard https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/15/china-video-gam...
- schmorptron 5y agoThis quote doesn't fit the context here. In the article, it states this was about entering the chinese market, not about how to design their game.
- RyEgswuCsn 5y agoQuite the contrary: > The deal still leaves Riot with a largely independent remit, however, with CEO Brandon Beck telling press that Tencent see Riot more as investment partners than as a fully-owned subsidiary. > "Riot is going to remain completely independent. There are no redundancies, no layoffs, no synergy fishing, no leadership change," Beck told Gamasutra. "Nothing is going to change other than they're dramatically increasing their holding in the company. They see this more as an investment in a partner. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-02-07-tencent-acquires-riot-games-for-around-USD400-million https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2011-02-07-tencent-ac... I remember reading somewhere that Tencent has the reputation of not interfering with the game studios it had acquired.
- encryptluks2 5y agoGame Pass has major issues still. No integrated backup mechanism; only 3 changes to your home PC per year... Imagine reinstalling more than 3 times to find out that you can no longer play offline; absolutely horrible download speeds... Compared to Steam which maxes out bandwidth; and the interface for Xbox Game Pass on PC is terrible.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago> absolutely horrible download speeds... Compared to Steam which maxes out bandwidth Yeah, I've noticed that. I don't know why they do that, it's annoying. If I can download a game in a half hour I'd like it in a half hour, not next Tuesday, please.
- MrDresden 5y agoI wonder if this is due to MS hosting their content at fewer datacenters and thus needing to balance the data flow to each user better. Valve has boxes hosted at many ISPs around the world and so each location could have lower usage numbers, thus less need to throttle. Pure speculation though.
- fomine3 5y agoValve's CDN (In my recent case, Akamai or Limelight) achieves fastest download speed I've ever used. I wonder why they do aggressively, and other don't.
- jimbob45 5y agoBlizzard is dead weight compared to the incredible profitability of Skylanders + CoD. I'd be willing to bet Blizzard gets spun off within a year.
- SkeuomorphicBee 5y agoBlizzard had a very big and dedicated fan base, the launch of a Blizzard game used to be one of the biggest gaming events of a year, their IPs are (were) loved by huge numbers. Current management did squander most of that good will in the last few years (mainly optimizing their new games for addictiveness instead of designing for fun), but I don't think it is too late, if under new management Blizzard pulls a 180 and goes back to make good games with the old IPs, fans will come back in droves.
- nottorp 5y ago> if under new management Blizzard pulls a 180 and goes back to make good games with the old IPs, fans will come back in droves. With who? Most names known for the titles of good old Blizzard are long gone. Possibly even retired.
- oblio 5y agoNobody's irreplaceable if the will to do it is really there.
- johanneskanybal 5y agoRight but if nothing about what made it good from the start is left what advantage would they have compared to any other assembled team? Games get replaced by the next new great thing at a rapid pace, there's no moat. So really don't get the idea of paying premium for a studio that Used to make great games.
- anthonypasq 5y agoskylanders hasnt been thing for years lol
- danity 5y agoVery true, just like when Google bought DoubleClick. I couldn't believe that went through.
- neogodless 5y ago> other companies are going to find it very hard to compete with Game Pass I haven't really ever used it. I used to buy everything Blizzard made (OK that's an exaggeration, but I was all about WarCraft/StarCraft/Diablo...). Before Steam, I bought lots of games on disk. Now I buy most things on Steam. And I haven't bought anything Blizzard since Diablo III. Why wouldn't Steam continue to be competitive against Game Pass? (I'm just one person, but among the people I know that play PC games, I don't hear about Game Pass much. One person mentioned he's on a 14 day $1 trial - that was the extent of it.)
- krageon 5y ago> Why wouldn't Steam continue to be competitive against Game Pass? Game pass is significantly cheaper, unless you buy very few games on steam (and/or only buy them on deep, deep sale. Which doesn't really exist anymore in any meaningful way).
- neogodless 5y agoAh yes I don't buy a ton of games, and I see sales all the time for Steam, like seeing $40 games for $10.
- agar 5y agoSo imagine deciding to spend $10 on that game, then realizing it's on GamePass. You now can choose wither to spend that same $10 to have access to 150+ games (including that one that's on sale), or just that game. Sure, that $10 gets you only 1 month, but will you buy a different $10 game next month? Will you play this game for more than a month? Pretty soon the GamePass ROI becomes difficult to ignore. (This coming from someone that doesn't have GamePass but is very impressed by the business model and value proposition around it).
- Hamuko 5y agoI'd still rather own my games than rent it out, especially since I know that there's also a constant stream of games leaving Game Pass. This month, Game Pass subscribers will lose access to Cyber Shadow (launched January 2021), Nowhere Prophet (launched July 2020), Prison Architect (launched January 2021) and Xeno Crisis (launched August 2020). I'm also having trouble believing that Game Pass will remain $10 for long. At some point Microsoft will want to start recouping its investments and it's gonna start hiking prices. I personally got pretty tired of the constant Netflix price updates and I'd rather not do the same to my video game collection. I didn't actually have a gaming PC between January 2014 and March 2021, and it was actually pretty nice to install Steam and see all of the games that I bought between 2006 and 2014 still waiting for me in my library.
- paulpan 5y agoIt'll depend on the perspective. For the gaming industry, this seems to push Microsoft into 3rd place (by size) behind Sony and Tencent. So hardly a monopoly and akin to T-Mobile's acquisition of Sprint a few years ago. It makes Microsoft much more competitive against Sony and even Nintendo since it'll likely bolster their 1P offerings in the future. But if Microsoft uses their ownership to favor their own game subscription services (aka GamePass) as well as platforms (aka Windows 11, Xbox console), then certainly that'll be monopolistic behavior. Interesting to note that they're probably #1-#2 in either of those sub-industries. It's possible to end up with an "Internet Explorer-esque" antitrust scenario if Microsoft removes or heavily discourages Activision and Bethesda from making their titles cross-platform.
- redisman 5y agoNintendo and Sony are small potatoes compared to MSFT in 2022. 70B and 150B market cap against a 2.27T one. Japanese tech companies are happy to stay in their niche. But now Microsoft has an incomprehensible advantage in available capital. Apart from the Japanese government blocking the sale they could just buy them
- lrem 5y agoWhoah, why is Sony group valued so low? They do a lot of things... Their P/E is half of Microsoft. But they're bleeding money, so something is amiss there.
- Forgeties79 5y agoYou’re not wrong, but Microsoft has also never successfully out sold their consoles (well...except wii-u, but that’s not much of an achievement). That might change now of course, but it’s not like they are solidly number one. They’re actually last of the big three.
- sharkjacobs 5y ago> if Microsoft removes or heavily discourages Activision and Bethesda from making their titles cross-platform. I'm pretty sure that Starfield is announced to be a Windows/Xbox exclusive already.
- JAlexoid 5y agoNot really. It's only an issue if this negatively. affects the competitive market. And since games are a creative market - there's hardly any reason to fear that Microsoft can restrict access to new players. This is not like a utility, that could technically force something on you. One company can buy all of game developers/publishers and still not make a dent in competitiveness of the games market.
- 0xedd 5y agoWrong. Here's a hypothetical scenario: Kids' PCs are windows. Microsoft has Game Store installed by default. Pop ups about the latest Fortnite NextGen, installed by default. More addictive than gambling but hella legal. Easy scenario, no regulations. Market is heavily skewed and MS has a big win in the gambling for kids industry.
- thfuran 5y agoI'm already wondering why these trillion dollar companies are allowed to make pretty much any acquisitions at all, let alone ones pretty clearly aimed at vertical integration.
- nvarsj 5y agoWe're way past the point where government is meant to be a check on unchecked capitalism. Mega monolith corps are the now and future.
- mise_en_place 5y agoIt makes sense they’d acquire Activision now, especially after Intel and AMD are bootlicking them and implementing Pluton. Essentially any new or even existing titles will not be able to be pirated with Pluton enabled.
- 0xedd 5y agoSo, more proprietary hardware which now only MS controls, only they can update and audit. According to security researchers, is not physical tamper proof. Tackles niche security issue while the number one vector of attack, comprising 80% of them, is social engineering and not kernel modifications. And, according to you, eliminate piracy which not only doesn't hurt the gaming industry but has also become redundant with multiplayer only titles dominating said industry. Nah, it's just a play to gain more monopoly into PCs and what runs on them. Today, it's a nightmare to get something signed for MS. God forbid you need to sign drivers. With them moving the goal post every now and then, broken APIs, broken SDKs and support SLA of infinity, pluton is a forced dependency. Pluton is a pure business move with zero customer value. The greatest threat, last year, in security was supply chain attacks. And this tries to "solve" kernel modifications? End users have nothing to gain.
- mise_en_place 5y agoYep you’re correct, it reminds me of old Microsoft doing sneaky things to attain monopoly status and kill competition. Hopefully ARM will not implement Pluton but I have a suspicion they will too if nvidia acquisition fails
- AlwaysRock 5y agoGamepass will be the netflix of game... rental? Sharing? Streaming? Whatever you want to call Gamepass. I'm surprised it didnt happen sooner.
- ren_engineer 5y agomy question is whether Microsoft was fanning the flames of all the controversy surrounding Activision recently and how much that dropped the acquisition price.
- bduerst 5y agoYou could say the same thing about Disney, Netflix, HBO, Apple TV, Amazon prime, etc. The thing about subscriptions is that consumers tend to buy multiple.
- dmead 5y agothe government will look the other way if there is a competitor to tencent.
- _notathrowaway 5y agoHonestly, why should any regulator bother with this? It's video games, it is clearly not any kind of essential infrastructure/software.
- calf 5y agoNot that regulators might care but game software shapes how young people conceive of software and IP issues. A company notorious for manipulating IP buying out a massive game company means entire generations of children and families will be exposed to this software as a service model of IP consumption.
- oblio 5y agoAt this point both Google and Apple have more end users than Microsoft. Their "software as a service model of IP consumption" didn't seem to bother many regulators so far.
- calf 5y agoSure but I'm really pointing out that children play games and that's a prime age to manipulate people's political expectations of the world. Like what toys and cartoons do. In contrast to the workplace software of Google or whatever subscription young people today might be willing to pay to use Apple's hardware.
- 0xedd 5y agoSo, only food, water, electricity and housing should be overseen by regulators? Besides, with so many games out right seeking to get kids addicted, let's at least have some trade regulations. It's not like parents can ignore them.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoIt's still a market that affects a lot of people's lives. I think it's good for them to stop these huge mergers. Let the small to midsize companies fight it out, but we've had enough of these huge and getting huger tech companies strangling out competition and innovation.