4 ms·

Sounds basically like a grant program, not UBI. However, slapping the phrase UBI on your program while it’s trendy is a genius way to “rebrand” something most

Sounds basically like a grant program, not UBI. However, slapping the phrase UBI on your program while it’s trendy is a genius way to “rebrand” something most governments already do. Politicians are the best marketers.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>Politicians are the best marketers. There's statutes and case law that make it unwise for real marketers to make claims the way politicians do.
goblin89 5y ago
A few times in the past 3–5 years I came across Europeans who would travel and do stuff like photography or filmmaking while being compensated by the government. I was told that those are programs where basically all you need is to be an unemployed artist. (Some of those people would also do remote software consulting or such, although I think that was bending the rules slightly.) For a country that wants to start a similar program, mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic—make people comfortable with the term that could later be expanded to involve actual UBI with less controversy.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  > For a country that wants to start a similar program, mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic—make people comfortable with the term that could later be expanded to involve actual UBI with less controversy. Or water it dowm so that people can't ask for actual UBI.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic Note that the Irish government, which already has a bunch of other artists' grants and supports, is _not_ calling it "universal". That's a (mostly foreign) media thing.
  - goblin89 5y ago
    I see. Makes my comment rather meaningless. > which already has a bunch of other artists' grants and supports I imagine most governments do it to some degree, but the question is how straightforward those grants are to get by someone who legitimately warrants one. Is there a lot of bureaucracy to get through in Ireland? do you often meet creatives receiving such a grant? traveling on it abroad?
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      So the big one is that earnings from art up to 50k are tax exempt, and that's very easy to get, of course.
      - goblin89 5y ago
        IMO exempting from tax is qualitatively different from just giving an artist money to live off of, which is what surprised me in those French/Swiss programs. One must either already be successful and business-savvy enough to earn money from one’s art or have a job/a sponsor, which defeats the point to some degree. I’m aware governments offer grants where they sponsor art, but from what I know the requirements and amounts of paperwork make it not really interesting to someone without established fame or connections.
        rsynnott 5y ago
        There are also grants (see https://www.artscouncil.ie/available-funding/ https://www.artscouncil.ie/available-funding/ for instance, and local authorities and things have their own), but this thing seems like an interesting addition, and far less complex to administer.
cabalamat 5y ago
> Politicians are the best marketers They are certainly accomplished liars.
- andriesm 5y ago
  The only redeeming feature for me is that the scope is so limited... to some number of artists... because an unbounded program would just be an incentive for all unemployed people to lie about being artists... By limiting the numbers means you have to have a crtierion whereby people are accepted. Another program I like is apparently India pays chess. grand masters a bit of a living stipend so they can focus on their chess? I think such things can be better uses of money than the typical wasteful expenditure of government programs... in this case the money goes to people most likely to use it in good ways or people who have shown merit. To become a chess GM is exceptional. Just like being a serious artist as a lifestyle.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

>Politicians are the best marketers. There's statutes and case law that make it unwise for real marketers to make claims the way politicians do.

goblin89 5y ago

A few times in the past 3–5 years I came across Europeans who would travel and do stuff like photography or filmmaking while being compensated by the government. I was told that those are programs where basically all you need is to be an unemployed artist. (Some of those people would also do remote software consulting or such, although I think that was bending the rules slightly.) For a country that wants to start a similar program, mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic—make people comfortable with the term that could later be expanded to involve actual UBI with less controversy.

guerrilla 5y ago
> For a country that wants to start a similar program, mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic—make people comfortable with the term that could later be expanded to involve actual UBI with less controversy. Or water it dowm so that people can't ask for actual UBI.
rsynnott 5y ago
> mislabeling it (because of course it is not actually universal) as “UBI” could be strategic Note that the Irish government, which already has a bunch of other artists' grants and supports, is _not_ calling it "universal". That's a (mostly foreign) media thing.
- goblin89 5y ago
  I see. Makes my comment rather meaningless. > which already has a bunch of other artists' grants and supports I imagine most governments do it to some degree, but the question is how straightforward those grants are to get by someone who legitimately warrants one. Is there a lot of bureaucracy to get through in Ireland? do you often meet creatives receiving such a grant? traveling on it abroad?
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    So the big one is that earnings from art up to 50k are tax exempt, and that's very easy to get, of course.
    - goblin89 5y ago
      IMO exempting from tax is qualitatively different from just giving an artist money to live off of, which is what surprised me in those French/Swiss programs. One must either already be successful and business-savvy enough to earn money from one’s art or have a job/a sponsor, which defeats the point to some degree. I’m aware governments offer grants where they sponsor art, but from what I know the requirements and amounts of paperwork make it not really interesting to someone without established fame or connections.
      - rsynnott 5y ago
        There are also grants (see https://www.artscouncil.ie/available-funding/ https://www.artscouncil.ie/available-funding/ for instance, and local authorities and things have their own), but this thing seems like an interesting addition, and far less complex to administer.

cabalamat 5y ago

> Politicians are the best marketers They are certainly accomplished liars.

andriesm 5y ago
The only redeeming feature for me is that the scope is so limited... to some number of artists... because an unbounded program would just be an incentive for all unemployed people to lie about being artists... By limiting the numbers means you have to have a crtierion whereby people are accepted. Another program I like is apparently India pays chess. grand masters a bit of a living stipend so they can focus on their chess? I think such things can be better uses of money than the typical wasteful expenditure of government programs... in this case the money goes to people most likely to use it in good ways or people who have shown merit. To become a chess GM is exceptional. Just like being a serious artist as a lifestyle.