4 ms·

ASML has 4750 suppliers. The supply chain in the chip world is probably the most complex system in existence. Both astounding and frightening.

by mgfist 5y ago

riffraff 5y ago
> the most complex system in existence And by definition, anything that uses a chip will depend on this, I think? Cars, airplanes, game consoles, mobile phones... Heck, we have chips in pregnancy pee sticks these days. So, I think all supply chains for "modern" things are insanely complex and effectively incomprehensible. And this is not new, see the classic "I, Pencil"[0]. > Since only God can make a tree, I insist that only God could make me. Man can no more direct these millions of know-hows to bring me into being than he can put molecules together to create a tree. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil
- knolan 5y ago
  I presume you’re referencing this? https://twitter.com/foone/status/1302820468819288066?s=21 https://twitter.com/foone/status/1302820468819288066?s=21
  - ralfd 5y ago
    Almost. This was first: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24371703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24371703
- kossTKR 5y ago
  It would be highly interesting to see a "tree of suppliers" for a single product - including how many people each part relied on, history etc. I would imagine a smartphone for example having an unimaginably large diagram.
  - philistine 5y ago
    Who makes the acid used to bleach the recycled cardboard for the box? Seriously if you include the box, a phone touches so much of our economy it’s astounding.
  - techdragon 5y ago
    Outside of specific fields/circumstances and/or a generous interpretation of just what counts as part of the supply chain, it’s basically impossible. The moment even the simplest items, like surplus vegetables grown and harvested by a slightly above subsistence level farmer on traditionally owned land, get carried in a truck, or even a bicycle, your supply chain explodes into a vast interconnected web of circular links. Which trucks trucked the parts to make the trucks to truck the parts to make the trucks that trucked the parts to make the trucks that… and so on.
- N1H1L 5y ago
  The complexity of modern supply chains is in my opinion the strongest case for government regulations and against a lot of libertarian economic ideas. It is impossible for the end-consumer, and even a lot of producers to know the provenance of every component in the supply chain. Even if every American consumer is against the destruction of rainforests, connecting the dots to palm oil cultivation and understanding the scale of ubiquity of palm oil in supermarket products is impossible. The only way out of this is government regulations.
gocartStatue 5y ago
I think that Eli Goldratt would not agree with you; number of connections does not determine the complexity of the system, it can be less complicated than system with smaller amount of connections. I believe these suppliers are pretty specialized, and that among those 4k+ there are "backup" ones too. Disclosure: I know nothing about chip making :)

ASML has 4750 suppliers. The supply chain in the chip world is probably the most complex system in existence. Both astounding and frightening.

by mgfist 5y ago

ASML has 4750 suppliers. The supply chain in the chip world is probably the most complex system in existence. Both astounding and frightening.

riffraff 5y ago

> the most complex system in existence And by definition, anything that uses a chip will depend on this, I think? Cars, airplanes, game consoles, mobile phones... Heck, we have chips in pregnancy pee sticks these days. So, I think all supply chains for "modern" things are insanely complex and effectively incomprehensible. And this is not new, see the classic "I, Pencil"[0]. > Since only God can make a tree, I insist that only God could make me. Man can no more direct these millions of know-hows to bring me into being than he can put molecules together to create a tree. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil

knolan 5y ago
I presume you’re referencing this? https://twitter.com/foone/status/1302820468819288066?s=21 https://twitter.com/foone/status/1302820468819288066?s=21
- ralfd 5y ago
  Almost. This was first: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24371703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24371703
kossTKR 5y ago
It would be highly interesting to see a "tree of suppliers" for a single product - including how many people each part relied on, history etc. I would imagine a smartphone for example having an unimaginably large diagram.
- philistine 5y ago
  Who makes the acid used to bleach the recycled cardboard for the box? Seriously if you include the box, a phone touches so much of our economy it’s astounding.
- techdragon 5y ago
  Outside of specific fields/circumstances and/or a generous interpretation of just what counts as part of the supply chain, it’s basically impossible. The moment even the simplest items, like surplus vegetables grown and harvested by a slightly above subsistence level farmer on traditionally owned land, get carried in a truck, or even a bicycle, your supply chain explodes into a vast interconnected web of circular links. Which trucks trucked the parts to make the trucks to truck the parts to make the trucks that trucked the parts to make the trucks that… and so on.
N1H1L 5y ago
The complexity of modern supply chains is in my opinion the strongest case for government regulations and against a lot of libertarian economic ideas. It is impossible for the end-consumer, and even a lot of producers to know the provenance of every component in the supply chain. Even if every American consumer is against the destruction of rainforests, connecting the dots to palm oil cultivation and understanding the scale of ubiquity of palm oil in supermarket products is impossible. The only way out of this is government regulations.

gocartStatue 5y ago

I think that Eli Goldratt would not agree with you; number of connections does not determine the complexity of the system, it can be less complicated than system with smaller amount of connections. I believe these suppliers are pretty specialized, and that among those 4k+ there are "backup" ones too. Disclosure: I know nothing about chip making :)