8 ms·

The SNESticle Liberation Project

275 points by farmerbb 5y ago

shortformblog 5y ago
This project was based on a discovery from a piece I wrote back in 2017, a backstory on the NESticle era of emulation. I essentially dug into a rumor about SNESticle appearing in an EA boxing game for the GameCube, and once I did, there it was. I wrote something about this reverse-engineering effort, including an interview with the developer who created this page: https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvkyb/programmer-uses-nsa-tool-to-liberate-legendary-super-nintendo-emulator-from-ea https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvkyb/programmer-uses-nsa-t... For those curious about how it runs, this video does a good job highlighting how it works in a variety of games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXQbWm2iMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXQbWm2iMg
- vmception 5y ago
  The real question is whether EA has a big ole target on it over this, depending on how the emulator works, or did legal coordinate with Nintendo over this for proper license Possible that it doesn't matter, but it is interesting and we'll never know
  - shortformblog 5y ago
    The Super Punch Out!! unlockable game was a promoted feature on the box of the GameCube version of Fight Night Round 2 and Little Mac was actually a character in the game, so that much isn’t a surprise. How the game was emulated, however, definitely was.
- vb6sp6 5y ago
  interesting info, thanks for posting. I spent a lot of time messing with NESticle back in the day.
geoah 5y ago
> Data mining revealed the strings "SNESticle" and "Copyright (c) 1997-2004 Icer Addis" (Addis being Sardu's real name) on the game disc. This raises a lot of questions, perhaps most importantly (and unanswerably): did he really have SNESticle ready to go back in 1997 and then chose to sit on it just to spite the people who were bugging him for it? Or is the 1997 date just a joke, to spite the very same people now? Or is the whole thing a joke? Who knows, ... Author of this emulator really sounds like a man with an insane amount of skills and an even larger grudge assuming he actually did either of the two things just out of spite. Got to respect his dedication either way.
- justinator 5y ago
  I mean: this is how you do it. Better than posioning a popular js library and just being an annoyance.
  - franga2000 5y ago
    Totally different motivations and goals, but also, the JS stuff was hilarious too. And more importantly, like with left-pad, if your software delivery pipeline is that fragile for mission-critical systems, you got what you deserved. Better learn your lesson from downtime now than leak a bunch of user data because the developer of is-uppercase.js lost a thumb drive with their github keys and somebody pushed a backdoor in a package update.
- anonbanker 5y ago
  He didn't make NESticle or Genecyst or Callus for anyone but himself. That much should've been obvious by the UI for each emulator. Obviously, he wanted to write a 65(C)816 and SPC700 emulator in 1997, so he did. Considering how badly his privacy was violated during the late 90's, it's not even a little surprising that he never released it.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    > Considering how badly his privacy was violated during the late 90's, it's not even a little surprising that he never released it. It seems people never learn: just look at the effort to find who Satoshy or _why_ are. This is not respectful: they gave you something cool and asked to be left alone. Their work is theirs and they generously shared it with you. Why do they believe they are owed anything else? Why can't some people take "please stop" for a response? Why do they keep trying their best to alienate the very people who accomplished miracles way beyond their capabilities? It seems self destructive in any way I take it, and driven only by spite/jealousy/beggar-chooser spirit.
jcpham2 5y ago
I played nesticle/snesitle/genecyst on my earlier Windows PCs and absolutely loved the emulation. The UI wasn’t the greatest but IIRC they were DOS 4g based and ran well under Windows.
mewse-hn 5y ago
The author of this page doesn't seem aware that the nesticle author's PC was hacked way back then, and the source code released against his will which led him to never release SNESticle.
- jolmberg 5y ago
  What makes you say that? I think I'm pretty aware of what went on back then. More than any healthy person should be really.
  - mewse-hn 5y ago
    The first sentence describes SNESticle as "much requested, much anticipated, much rumoured" but never released, and there's no mention of why.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      It links to an article that describes why in great detail, no real reason to do more than that.
- shanselman 5y ago
  https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle
YellowStuDregg 5y ago
Looks like the original author uploaded the source recently: https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle
- tasha0663 5y ago
  > You guys have way too much free time. I guess that's his response to the liberation project :)
  - jolmberg 5y ago
    That's awesome. I strongly refute that claim, though! :)
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  Love his comment in the github repo
- shortformblog 5y ago
  As someone who has spent a lot of time researching all this: That is wild.
- jolmberg 5y ago
  Wow. Did not expect!
- LeSaucy 5y ago
  The amount of inline assembly in this code is wild.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    well, it was authored for the PS2 and GameCube, I think. for those platforms I imagine you'd need to use assembly at least a little to get the desired performance.
    - Pxtl 5y ago
egypturnash 5y ago
I went a little ways down the rabbit hole with some of the links in this article and ended up looking at the trailer for "The Knobbly Crook", a very peculiar point-and-click game by the art half of Bloodlust Software. Who, after drifting away from the programming half, apparently ended up at a Canadian game team called "Strategy First", then as a level designer and writer at Ubisoft. It's free but Windows-only so I can't check it out. Looks pretty crazy. https://store.steampowered.com/app/378300/The_Knobbly_Crook/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/378300/The_Knobbly_Crook/
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  If you're on Linux, Steam has a pretty solid compatibility layer baked in (Proton, which they use on their Steam Decks and such). Just right click the game in your library, hit Properties, and then 'Force Compatibility'.
  - egypturnash 5y ago
    I’m a Mac girl :)
xahrepap 5y ago
NESticle has nearly as much nostalgia for me as plugging in the NES. There was this magical feeling at the time. I can play my favorite games on my computer? Don’t have to blow in the cartridge? Save states???
naikrovek 5y ago
excellent SNES emulators exist and are open source, including bsnes which is probably as good as is possible, and is certainly as good as is needed. it's 100% compatible. is "liberating" another emulator going to get anyone anything new?
- rincebrain 5y ago
  This was, once upon a time, a much anticipated piece of software, thought lost due to people's choices. For them, I imagine it's less about how good it is, and more about simply having access to it now.
  - naikrovek 5y ago
    That makes sense. I followed the emulator scene for a while and had never heard of this one until a recent article somewhere. Or maybe I just forgot about it? Either way, bsnes meets all of my needs. I have no nostalgia towards an emulator that I have never used previously, and I can count SNESticle among the emulators that I have never used.
wodenokoto 5y ago
So is it any good? This is the second article on SNESticle to reach the front page within the last few weeks and neither talks about whether the emulator is actually any good, only that it’s legendary.
- teh_klev 5y ago
  It was never released originally, so no-one really knows for sure. However the source code was only released ~5 days ago so I guess it's wait and see, or you could build it yourself to find out ;) https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle
hnlmorg 5y ago
I have so many fond memories of running Genecyst on college machines when I should have been working. At the time it felt like a super power running software that emulated an entire games console on a computer that could barely run Windows 95. And those games ran well too. I don't recall seeing any slowdown on Sonic The Hedgehog. It was actually Genecyst that lead me to Windows software development (before then I was mainly focused on older micro computers, DOS and a little bit of web development if I was bored). But I wanted a way to hide my gaming activities on college machines so wrote some Windows software to hide Genecyst from the task bare, "boss screens" and such like. This lead me onto Win32 APIs and a whole other rabbit hole of fun and nefarious projects that would have likely lead to a criminal record if it happened today. But it was a great learning experience and lead to the reputable career I have today.

275 points by farmerbb 5y ago

This project was based on a discovery from a piece I wrote back in 2017, a backstory on the NESticle era of emulation. I essentially dug into a rumor about SNESticle appearing in an EA boxing game for the GameCube, and once I did, there it was. I wrote something about this reverse-engineering effort, including an interview with the developer who created this page: https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvkyb/programmer-uses-nsa-tool-to-liberate-legendary-super-nintendo-emulator-from-ea https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvkyb/programmer-uses-nsa-t... For those curious about how it runs, this video does a good job highlighting how it works in a variety of games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXQbWm2iMg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fXQbWm2iMg

vmception 5y ago
The real question is whether EA has a big ole target on it over this, depending on how the emulator works, or did legal coordinate with Nintendo over this for proper license Possible that it doesn't matter, but it is interesting and we'll never know
- shortformblog 5y ago
  The Super Punch Out!! unlockable game was a promoted feature on the box of the GameCube version of Fight Night Round 2 and Little Mac was actually a character in the game, so that much isn’t a surprise. How the game was emulated, however, definitely was.
vb6sp6 5y ago
interesting info, thanks for posting. I spent a lot of time messing with NESticle back in the day.

geoah 5y ago

> Data mining revealed the strings "SNESticle" and "Copyright (c) 1997-2004 Icer Addis" (Addis being Sardu's real name) on the game disc. This raises a lot of questions, perhaps most importantly (and unanswerably): did he really have SNESticle ready to go back in 1997 and then chose to sit on it just to spite the people who were bugging him for it? Or is the 1997 date just a joke, to spite the very same people now? Or is the whole thing a joke? Who knows, ... Author of this emulator really sounds like a man with an insane amount of skills and an even larger grudge assuming he actually did either of the two things just out of spite. Got to respect his dedication either way.

justinator 5y ago
I mean: this is how you do it. Better than posioning a popular js library and just being an annoyance.
- franga2000 5y ago
  Totally different motivations and goals, but also, the JS stuff was hilarious too. And more importantly, like with left-pad, if your software delivery pipeline is that fragile for mission-critical systems, you got what you deserved. Better learn your lesson from downtime now than leak a bunch of user data because the developer of is-uppercase.js lost a thumb drive with their github keys and somebody pushed a backdoor in a package update.
anonbanker 5y ago
He didn't make NESticle or Genecyst or Callus for anyone but himself. That much should've been obvious by the UI for each emulator. Obviously, he wanted to write a 65(C)816 and SPC700 emulator in 1997, so he did. Considering how badly his privacy was violated during the late 90's, it's not even a little surprising that he never released it.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Considering how badly his privacy was violated during the late 90's, it's not even a little surprising that he never released it. It seems people never learn: just look at the effort to find who Satoshy or _why_ are. This is not respectful: they gave you something cool and asked to be left alone. Their work is theirs and they generously shared it with you. Why do they believe they are owed anything else? Why can't some people take "please stop" for a response? Why do they keep trying their best to alienate the very people who accomplished miracles way beyond their capabilities? It seems self destructive in any way I take it, and driven only by spite/jealousy/beggar-chooser spirit.

jcpham2 5y ago

I played nesticle/snesitle/genecyst on my earlier Windows PCs and absolutely loved the emulation. The UI wasn’t the greatest but IIRC they were DOS 4g based and ran well under Windows.

mewse-hn 5y ago

The author of this page doesn't seem aware that the nesticle author's PC was hacked way back then, and the source code released against his will which led him to never release SNESticle.

jolmberg 5y ago
What makes you say that? I think I'm pretty aware of what went on back then. More than any healthy person should be really.
- mewse-hn 5y ago
  The first sentence describes SNESticle as "much requested, much anticipated, much rumoured" but never released, and there's no mention of why.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    It links to an article that describes why in great detail, no real reason to do more than that.
shanselman 5y ago
https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle

YellowStuDregg 5y ago

Looks like the original author uploaded the source recently: https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle

tasha0663 5y ago
> You guys have way too much free time. I guess that's his response to the liberation project :)
- jolmberg 5y ago
  That's awesome. I strongly refute that claim, though! :)
fxtentacle 5y ago
Love his comment in the github repo
shortformblog 5y ago
As someone who has spent a lot of time researching all this: That is wild.
jolmberg 5y ago
Wow. Did not expect!
LeSaucy 5y ago
The amount of inline assembly in this code is wild.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  well, it was authored for the PS2 and GameCube, I think. for those platforms I imagine you'd need to use assembly at least a little to get the desired performance.
  - Pxtl 5y ago

egypturnash 5y ago

I went a little ways down the rabbit hole with some of the links in this article and ended up looking at the trailer for "The Knobbly Crook", a very peculiar point-and-click game by the art half of Bloodlust Software. Who, after drifting away from the programming half, apparently ended up at a Canadian game team called "Strategy First", then as a level designer and writer at Ubisoft. It's free but Windows-only so I can't check it out. Looks pretty crazy. https://store.steampowered.com/app/378300/The_Knobbly_Crook/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/378300/The_Knobbly_Crook/

WaxProlix 5y ago
If you're on Linux, Steam has a pretty solid compatibility layer baked in (Proton, which they use on their Steam Decks and such). Just right click the game in your library, hit Properties, and then 'Force Compatibility'.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  I’m a Mac girl :)

xahrepap 5y ago

NESticle has nearly as much nostalgia for me as plugging in the NES. There was this magical feeling at the time. I can play my favorite games on my computer? Don’t have to blow in the cartridge? Save states???

naikrovek 5y ago

excellent SNES emulators exist and are open source, including bsnes which is probably as good as is possible, and is certainly as good as is needed. it's 100% compatible. is "liberating" another emulator going to get anyone anything new?

rincebrain 5y ago
This was, once upon a time, a much anticipated piece of software, thought lost due to people's choices. For them, I imagine it's less about how good it is, and more about simply having access to it now.
- naikrovek 5y ago
  That makes sense. I followed the emulator scene for a while and had never heard of this one until a recent article somewhere. Or maybe I just forgot about it? Either way, bsnes meets all of my needs. I have no nostalgia towards an emulator that I have never used previously, and I can count SNESticle among the emulators that I have never used.

wodenokoto 5y ago

So is it any good? This is the second article on SNESticle to reach the front page within the last few weeks and neither talks about whether the emulator is actually any good, only that it’s legendary.

teh_klev 5y ago
It was never released originally, so no-one really knows for sure. However the source code was only released ~5 days ago so I guess it's wait and see, or you could build it yourself to find out ;) https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle https://github.com/iaddis/SNESticle

hnlmorg 5y ago

I have so many fond memories of running Genecyst on college machines when I should have been working. At the time it felt like a super power running software that emulated an entire games console on a computer that could barely run Windows 95. And those games ran well too. I don't recall seeing any slowdown on Sonic The Hedgehog. It was actually Genecyst that lead me to Windows software development (before then I was mainly focused on older micro computers, DOS and a little bit of web development if I was bored). But I wanted a way to hide my gaming activities on college machines so wrote some Windows software to hide Genecyst from the task bare, "boss screens" and such like. This lead me onto Win32 APIs and a whole other rabbit hole of fun and nefarious projects that would have likely lead to a criminal record if it happened today. But it was a great learning experience and lead to the reputable career I have today.