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>he was tracking the movement data of the boss to avoid him whenever possible. Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal len

>he was tracking the movement data of the boss to avoid him whenever possible. Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal lengths (that can backfire against you) to track him, instead of using same skills legally to finding a better job. I just don't get, something doesn't feel right about this being the true reason. To me it looks more like he wanted a covert backdoor in the company network for IP-theft, black-mail or other such data exfiltration purposes. If only he knew that in a year he could avoid his boss all the time thanks to covid-WFH.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal lengths (that can backfire against you) to track him, instead of using same skills legally to finding a better job. I’ve mentored a lot of juniors. It’s not uncommon for young people, especially those with less developed social skills, to have an undeserved fear of their boss or anyone else with authority. It’s common with young people who have debilitating anxiety and a tendency toward rumination. They think that as long as they avoid the authority figure, they can avoid any negative social interactions (which are largely imagined). It’s possible that the boss was bad, of course, but I kind of doubt it given that his response to this situation was to let the person off easy.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >I’ve mentored a lot of juniors. It’s not uncommon for young people, especially those with less developed social skills. Sure, but even as a junior employee, we're still talking about mature adults here, not kindergarten kiddies, who can vote, pay taxes and are held accountable for their actions in front of the law, so they should be aware that deliberately backdooring their employer so that they can surveillance their boss, not only most likely violates their employment contract they signed and can have serious legal backlash against then both from the company and from the person who's privacy they were trying to break. >It’s common with young people who have debilitating anxiety and a tendency toward rumination. Yeah, I get that, but how is this in excuse for hacking your employer/boss? Why not seek therapy from professionals for that and try to either quit toxic workplaces or report abusive bosses and find a workplace that accommodates your personality and emotional type, not try to hack and backdoor your employer's network to keep tabs on your boss. There is no workplace in the world and no work colleagues that will tolerate you hacking their network and invading their privacy because you have anxiety and a tendency toward rumination.
  - nickelcitymario 5y ago
    > Why not seek therapy from professionals No disagreement here, but to answer your question: If someone is struggling with social anxiety, they actually have to somehow overcome their anxiety enough to seek that help. It can be a real catch-22. (Not a justification for this person's actions by any means. Just explaining motivation.)
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > Sure, but even as a junior employee, we're still talking about mature adults here It’s a wider range than you’d think. Juniors range from seasoned employees who have had various jobs over the years to completely green employees who have never had to work a day in their lives. The latter group can allow a lot of people to avoid dealing with their problems and maturing for a long time. > Yeah, I get that, but how is this in excuse for hacking your employer/boss? It’s not, and I never said it was. I was only replying to the insistence that the boss must be a terrible person. This behavior is never acceptable.
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Doesn't anxiety tend to not make you want to sprinkle boxes of malware in network closets? Like, I would be absolutely terrified to even accidentally overhear someone talking about this and possibly be dragged into it that way.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    The author of this piece didn't work at the company. It sounds like the company wasn't really full of technical people. The perpetrator probably thought they were so much smarter than everyone else that they'd never be caught.
    - LennyHenrysNuts 5y ago
      I think this is probably a fair assessment.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  That, or the person found leverage.
- Sunspark 5y ago
  I think it depends on the company. Larger corporations like banks tend to have management types who are sociopaths or giant egos who only care about making themselves look good to their own boss. They expect their reports to work unpaid overtime and don't recognize their efforts.
rheophile 5y ago
what if this guy is just a hell of an introvert who is more comfortable rigging something like this up than with interacting with this boss. If this kid was in his early 20s I'd probably slap his wrist and impress on him the dangers of screwing with the company network closet. If he is an adult he really ought to know better
- spac 5y ago
  just came here to say that while I understand the sentiment, people in their 20s can vote, and should be considered adults, not kids.
  - AlecSchueler 5y ago
    Legally that's true but I think you know as well as anyone that people don't just suddenly mature on the day of their 18th birthday.
    - cgriswald 5y ago
      I wonder what effect treating legal adults as children has on their maturity trajectory.
      - travisjungroth 5y ago
        It’s super complex. There are cases where the person “gets it” and just getting caught is enough to cause growth. Accountability in the form of punishment may be a waste of time or even harmful to growth because the experience is too painful to integrate. On the other hand, someone who is always let off the hook may never develop a true sense of responsibility and things only get worse. There’s no single factor to tell what’s the right thing to do all the time. But within the theme of this thread, I strongly doubt the optimum solution is “full punishment in every case for everyone the moment they cross the age of majority.”
      - exhilaration 5y ago
        There's a book about this: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/188495670X https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscoverin...
ortusdux 5y ago
They sell laser trip-wires that act as usb keyboards and can hide windows, lock your computer, or run scripts. https://www.tindie.com/products/dekuNukem/daytripper-hide-my-windows-laser-tripwire/ https://www.tindie.com/products/dekuNukem/daytripper-hide-my...
bigiain 5y ago
> Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal lengths (that can backfire against you) to track him, instead of using same skills legally to finding a better job. I once worked at a place where one of the founders would too often get the shits with someone or some team, and become a micro managing asshole for a few weeks. I wrote a python script to run on the wifi router to monitor for MAC addresses connecting and disconnecting, ostensibly this was to publish a webpage with a "Is manager X in the building?" dashboard. Which also just happened to have filterable notification subscriptions and a Slack integration. Pretty soon, everybody he was micromanaging ended up getting 90 seconds or so notice of him arriving, as his phone connected to the wifi while he walked in from the car park. The other managers and PMs all loved the dashboard, and I got a bonus for it at performance review time.
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  How did that founder feel about it? And what did the employees do with the information? Leave the building?
  - bigiain 5y ago
    Not sure the micro managing founder ever found out people were using it to alert when he arrived. His asshole tendencies extended beyond micromanaging staff, and he ended up in a fight with the other two founders that resulted in him leaving the country with a warrant for his arrest of fraud charges within about a year. People in his firing line would mostly use it to make sure that they were at their desk and had Jira open while waiting for something to compile, instead of HN or Reddit… The managers-in-the-building website dashboard stayed running for at least several years after that, when I left, and it was still in regular use. People liked being able to do things like go “Hey, we’ve got the PM, Account Manager, and the CEO all in the office right now, let’s grab the tech lead security guys, and set up a 3 minute corridor meeting to make this decision.”
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  That's pretty cool and funny too, but AFAIK, tracking people at work without their explicit consent is illegal in most of the EU even before GDPR.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal lengths (that can backfire against you) to track him, instead of using same skills legally to finding a better job. I’ve mentored a lot of juniors. It’s not uncommon for young people, especially those with less developed social skills, to have an undeserved fear of their boss or anyone else with authority. It’s common with young people who have debilitating anxiety and a tendency toward rumination. They think that as long as they avoid the authority figure, they can avoid any negative social interactions (which are largely imagined). It’s possible that the boss was bad, of course, but I kind of doubt it given that his response to this situation was to let the person off easy.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>I’ve mentored a lot of juniors. It’s not uncommon for young people, especially those with less developed social skills. Sure, but even as a junior employee, we're still talking about mature adults here, not kindergarten kiddies, who can vote, pay taxes and are held accountable for their actions in front of the law, so they should be aware that deliberately backdooring their employer so that they can surveillance their boss, not only most likely violates their employment contract they signed and can have serious legal backlash against then both from the company and from the person who's privacy they were trying to break. >It’s common with young people who have debilitating anxiety and a tendency toward rumination. Yeah, I get that, but how is this in excuse for hacking your employer/boss? Why not seek therapy from professionals for that and try to either quit toxic workplaces or report abusive bosses and find a workplace that accommodates your personality and emotional type, not try to hack and backdoor your employer's network to keep tabs on your boss. There is no workplace in the world and no work colleagues that will tolerate you hacking their network and invading their privacy because you have anxiety and a tendency toward rumination.
- nickelcitymario 5y ago
  > Why not seek therapy from professionals No disagreement here, but to answer your question: If someone is struggling with social anxiety, they actually have to somehow overcome their anxiety enough to seek that help. It can be a real catch-22. (Not a justification for this person's actions by any means. Just explaining motivation.)
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Sure, but even as a junior employee, we're still talking about mature adults here It’s a wider range than you’d think. Juniors range from seasoned employees who have had various jobs over the years to completely green employees who have never had to work a day in their lives. The latter group can allow a lot of people to avoid dealing with their problems and maturing for a long time. > Yeah, I get that, but how is this in excuse for hacking your employer/boss? It’s not, and I never said it was. I was only replying to the insistence that the boss must be a terrible person. This behavior is never acceptable.
eternityforest 5y ago
Doesn't anxiety tend to not make you want to sprinkle boxes of malware in network closets? Like, I would be absolutely terrified to even accidentally overhear someone talking about this and possibly be dragged into it that way.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  The author of this piece didn't work at the company. It sounds like the company wasn't really full of technical people. The perpetrator probably thought they were so much smarter than everyone else that they'd never be caught.
  - LennyHenrysNuts 5y ago
    I think this is probably a fair assessment.
eurasiantiger 5y ago
That, or the person found leverage.
Sunspark 5y ago
I think it depends on the company. Larger corporations like banks tend to have management types who are sociopaths or giant egos who only care about making themselves look good to their own boss. They expect their reports to work unpaid overtime and don't recognize their efforts.

rheophile 5y ago

what if this guy is just a hell of an introvert who is more comfortable rigging something like this up than with interacting with this boss. If this kid was in his early 20s I'd probably slap his wrist and impress on him the dangers of screwing with the company network closet. If he is an adult he really ought to know better

spac 5y ago
just came here to say that while I understand the sentiment, people in their 20s can vote, and should be considered adults, not kids.
- AlecSchueler 5y ago
  Legally that's true but I think you know as well as anyone that people don't just suddenly mature on the day of their 18th birthday.
  - cgriswald 5y ago
    I wonder what effect treating legal adults as children has on their maturity trajectory.
    - travisjungroth 5y ago
      It’s super complex. There are cases where the person “gets it” and just getting caught is enough to cause growth. Accountability in the form of punishment may be a waste of time or even harmful to growth because the experience is too painful to integrate. On the other hand, someone who is always let off the hook may never develop a true sense of responsibility and things only get worse. There’s no single factor to tell what’s the right thing to do all the time. But within the theme of this thread, I strongly doubt the optimum solution is “full punishment in every case for everyone the moment they cross the age of majority.”
    - exhilaration 5y ago
      There's a book about this: https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/188495670X https://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscoverin...

ortusdux 5y ago

They sell laser trip-wires that act as usb keyboards and can hide windows, lock your computer, or run scripts. https://www.tindie.com/products/dekuNukem/daytripper-hide-my-windows-laser-tripwire/ https://www.tindie.com/products/dekuNukem/daytripper-hide-my...

bigiain 5y ago

> Wow, imagine hating your boss so much you go to so much creative and illegal lengths (that can backfire against you) to track him, instead of using same skills legally to finding a better job. I once worked at a place where one of the founders would too often get the shits with someone or some team, and become a micro managing asshole for a few weeks. I wrote a python script to run on the wifi router to monitor for MAC addresses connecting and disconnecting, ostensibly this was to publish a webpage with a "Is manager X in the building?" dashboard. Which also just happened to have filterable notification subscriptions and a Slack integration. Pretty soon, everybody he was micromanaging ended up getting 90 seconds or so notice of him arriving, as his phone connected to the wifi while he walked in from the car park. The other managers and PMs all loved the dashboard, and I got a bonus for it at performance review time.

andrei_says_ 5y ago
How did that founder feel about it? And what did the employees do with the information? Leave the building?
- bigiain 5y ago
  Not sure the micro managing founder ever found out people were using it to alert when he arrived. His asshole tendencies extended beyond micromanaging staff, and he ended up in a fight with the other two founders that resulted in him leaving the country with a warrant for his arrest of fraud charges within about a year. People in his firing line would mostly use it to make sure that they were at their desk and had Jira open while waiting for something to compile, instead of HN or Reddit… The managers-in-the-building website dashboard stayed running for at least several years after that, when I left, and it was still in regular use. People liked being able to do things like go “Hey, we’ve got the PM, Account Manager, and the CEO all in the office right now, let’s grab the tech lead security guys, and set up a 3 minute corridor meeting to make this decision.”
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
That's pretty cool and funny too, but AFAIK, tracking people at work without their explicit consent is illegal in most of the EU even before GDPR.