17 ms·

I can't put this into words, much like the author of the account of Jesus healing the Leper. But I think he was onto something deeper than what a literal interp

I can't put this into words, much like the author of the account of Jesus healing the Leper. But I think he was onto something deeper than what a literal interpretation might suggest. There is something worth non 0 value of living in a society who accepts you despite being sick or 'dirty', and is willing to take the risk of having those who are tainted amongst them. I feel that's an attitude that comes from a place of strength not weakness. But being scared of the air is certainly not something Jesus would have been.

alexvoda 5y ago
Why would you be scared of anything when you are God? Fear of disease is a normal biological response present in many other animals. The fact that we manage to overcome this fear through social conditioning is laudable because in several cases, the fear is worse than the disease. But in this age, that should not be the approach we take, because we have a far better alternative available. We have a growing arsenal of tools to make use of the best approach: genocide against the diseases. We did it against small pox. We can do it again.
- gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
  The covid pandemic proved two things about our policy management, under both administrations in the US. First, regardless of what tools are in our arsenal, we the people, will only be allowed to use whatever tool those in power allow. Trump bashed vaccines. He pushed monoclonal antibodies. Biden won't allow the use of traditional vaccinations such as Covaxin. “We have enough vaccines, the best vaccines available, in the United States,” Fauci, the chief medical advisor to President Joe Biden, said in response to a question about Covaxin during his Thursday interview with Adrienne Bankert on NewsNation’s “Morning in America.” https://www.newsnationnow.com/health/coronavirus/vaccine/covaxin-india-covid-vaccine/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/health/coronavirus/vaccine/cov.... Many of those who refuse to be vaccinated do so because they don't trust the vaccine tech. Even if they are wrong in that mRNA is safe (the point of this post is not to debate that; please don't get caught up on that detail), we have a perfectly good weapon in Covixan, but we're not allowed to use it because the orthodox leading society won't allow us. This causes those in the unclean camp to take an already defense posture to new levels. Second, the general public is anti-science and pick their side no matter what. For example, we can't wipe out Covid like we did Polio or Smallpox for the simple scientific reason that Covid has animal reserves in which it may escape and mutate. Further we can't have adult conversations around policy. Under Trump any one discussing anything other that an absolutely open economy was vilified. Under Biden anyone saying that the evidence does not support individuals under 40, especially males, getting the double shot or boosted, is immediately going to be downvoted on whatever social media on which they comment. The fact that a male under 40 is 4x more likely to suffer heart damage from the shot than the disease, the fact that the same individual has little chance of hospitalization or death from the disease, the fact that those with mRNA vaccines still spread Delta at meaningful rate, the fact that Omicron rips through both populations are to be ignored because nuance is too much. It is too hard. The current orthodox view, regardless of the bent, of a particular social media rules the day. All others, the heterodox, are nothing more than a vector of disease, either of the mind as the right says or the body as the left says. As to the issue raised below about needing citation of heart damage, I suggest those that actually care, please watch videos from Vinay Prasad MD MPH, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUibd0E2kdF9N9e-EmIbUew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUibd0E2kdF9N9e-EmIbUew. He is not an anti-vaxer. To the claim about heart damage, see his analysis here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_ZVzrTeYk&t=601s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_ZVzrTeYk&t=601s. As to our ability to eradicate Covid, I don't think the science actually supports the view. https://www.quantamagazine.org/will-we-ever-eradicate-covid-19-20211130/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/will-we-ever-eradicate-covid-.... If we hold to the idea that we can eradicate it and that the only thing preventing us from doing so is the anti-vaxxers, we're going to get into a religious war where both side devalue the lives of their enemies. This is how rhetorical vitriol turns into physical violence. I hope we can steer clear of that. In general, the orthodox overestimate the chances of hospitalization relative to reality, https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimates-covid-hospitalization-risk.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat.... Since they are leading the policy charge, their warped view is making it all but impossible to discuss things rationally.
  - t-writescode 5y ago
    It’s worth adding that Operation WarpSpeed *also* helped get the rna vaccines faster. So Trump, with all his garbage spoken policy, behind the scenes was attempting to speed up vaccine research; and later, once either it wasn’t his pride as supreme commander on the line, or when he realized his speaking was where all the harm came from (with regard to covid), he changed his speaking and is now explicitly promoting the vaccines.
    - namelessoracle 5y ago
      This is odd and some modern newspeak to me. Trump was pro vaccine and went on about how they would get vaccines out at record time while he was being actively mocked by medical doctors that could never happen. And you had Biden and his admin saying they would be hesitant to take the vaccine. It wasn't until the companies waited until right after the election (almost immediately, and the timing set off all kinds of alarm bells for a lot of people) to announce the vaccine was ready that the narrative flipped, and even then I dont seem to recall Trump personally being skeptical of the vaccines. Do you have a link to that?
      - t-writescode 5y ago
        He never outright said that the vaccine wasn't a good idea, but he was against lockdowns and generally reduced the concern about the virus. A large part of the president's job is delivering messages to the public; and, overall, Trump's message is "nothing to fear" - which was accurate in the sense that he was throwing resources at getting a fix, but HORRIBLY INACCURATE when it comes to the personal efforts people could do to protect everyone. There's a reason that Red States didn't lock down as much and had higher case rates per capita, in general, and still do. The 12 disinformationists may have the most to blame about the anti-vaccine statuses; but the president didn't do any favors.
        namelessoracle 5y ago
        This is alot of words to repeat what i said. He never came out against vaccines and even supported them recently (to right wing ire). He clearly views their existence as a credit to him and will likely campaign on that point in 2024.
betterunix2 5y ago
Except that Jesus taught his disciples not to wash their hands before eating -- a basic hygenic practice that people of his time certainly understood. However valuable his moral teachings may have been, Jesus is not exactly an authority on preventing disease spread... (Also, the story of Jesus and the leper may have been nothing more than an attempt to talk about Jesus' miraculous powers.)
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > not to wash their hands before eating if you dont have soap rinsing your hands with water that could be contaminated by a myriad of bacteria may not be the best course of action. Even in the modern world of less-developed countries, most gastrointestinal infections come from (unclean) water, not food.
  - cainxinth 5y ago
    Soap was invented in 2800 BC
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      And you would be surprised that it was not routinely available everywhere, anytime, in antiquity. Mass consumption of soap is a very, very recent thing.
      - cainxinth 5y ago
        First hit from Google for “Did they use soap in biblical times?”: >”Soap became hugely popular throughout the Roman Empire, around 100 BC to 400 AD. When the ruins of Pompeii were excavated, an entire soap factory was discovered in the rubble.”
  - JetAlone 5y ago
    You can wash your hands if you think it is wise to, but don't make it a matter of spiritual, ritual cleanliness that you place trust in the performance of above God as the pharisees did. As you say, God can make the water a worse poison to you. Honour your father and mother. Be just to your neighbor. Trust God above man and cultivate a loving relationship with both. The modern day godless neo-pharisees will of course, as always, ask questions and make remarks that are trite, intended to discredit people's faith, or trip heartfelt believers into contradiction. They want to maintain the social order they're scared of having overturned by a just man willing to make a real sacrifice going against its grain in a sorely needed fashion. They don't understand, so be it.
dTal 5y ago
"Scared of the air" is a phrase I've only heard covid deniers use. Most people understand that in fact we're scared of the deadly viruses floating in the air, which are a real thing that one should be scared of, and framing it to sound absurd like that is dishonest.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  It's even possible to be concerned about things like losing your sense of smell without that concern justifying the label "scared". Putting on sunscreen, not because I dislike the discomfort associated with sunburn but because I am scared of the Daystar.

alexvoda 5y ago

Why would you be scared of anything when you are God? Fear of disease is a normal biological response present in many other animals. The fact that we manage to overcome this fear through social conditioning is laudable because in several cases, the fear is worse than the disease. But in this age, that should not be the approach we take, because we have a far better alternative available. We have a growing arsenal of tools to make use of the best approach: genocide against the diseases. We did it against small pox. We can do it again.

gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
The covid pandemic proved two things about our policy management, under both administrations in the US. First, regardless of what tools are in our arsenal, we the people, will only be allowed to use whatever tool those in power allow. Trump bashed vaccines. He pushed monoclonal antibodies. Biden won't allow the use of traditional vaccinations such as Covaxin. “We have enough vaccines, the best vaccines available, in the United States,” Fauci, the chief medical advisor to President Joe Biden, said in response to a question about Covaxin during his Thursday interview with Adrienne Bankert on NewsNation’s “Morning in America.” https://www.newsnationnow.com/health/coronavirus/vaccine/covaxin-india-covid-vaccine/ https://www.newsnationnow.com/health/coronavirus/vaccine/cov.... Many of those who refuse to be vaccinated do so because they don't trust the vaccine tech. Even if they are wrong in that mRNA is safe (the point of this post is not to debate that; please don't get caught up on that detail), we have a perfectly good weapon in Covixan, but we're not allowed to use it because the orthodox leading society won't allow us. This causes those in the unclean camp to take an already defense posture to new levels. Second, the general public is anti-science and pick their side no matter what. For example, we can't wipe out Covid like we did Polio or Smallpox for the simple scientific reason that Covid has animal reserves in which it may escape and mutate. Further we can't have adult conversations around policy. Under Trump any one discussing anything other that an absolutely open economy was vilified. Under Biden anyone saying that the evidence does not support individuals under 40, especially males, getting the double shot or boosted, is immediately going to be downvoted on whatever social media on which they comment. The fact that a male under 40 is 4x more likely to suffer heart damage from the shot than the disease, the fact that the same individual has little chance of hospitalization or death from the disease, the fact that those with mRNA vaccines still spread Delta at meaningful rate, the fact that Omicron rips through both populations are to be ignored because nuance is too much. It is too hard. The current orthodox view, regardless of the bent, of a particular social media rules the day. All others, the heterodox, are nothing more than a vector of disease, either of the mind as the right says or the body as the left says. As to the issue raised below about needing citation of heart damage, I suggest those that actually care, please watch videos from Vinay Prasad MD MPH, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUibd0E2kdF9N9e-EmIbUew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUibd0E2kdF9N9e-EmIbUew. He is not an anti-vaxer. To the claim about heart damage, see his analysis here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_ZVzrTeYk&t=601s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR_ZVzrTeYk&t=601s. As to our ability to eradicate Covid, I don't think the science actually supports the view. https://www.quantamagazine.org/will-we-ever-eradicate-covid-19-20211130/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/will-we-ever-eradicate-covid-.... If we hold to the idea that we can eradicate it and that the only thing preventing us from doing so is the anti-vaxxers, we're going to get into a religious war where both side devalue the lives of their enemies. This is how rhetorical vitriol turns into physical violence. I hope we can steer clear of that. In general, the orthodox overestimate the chances of hospitalization relative to reality, https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimates-covid-hospitalization-risk.aspx https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat.... Since they are leading the policy charge, their warped view is making it all but impossible to discuss things rationally.
- t-writescode 5y ago
  It’s worth adding that Operation WarpSpeed *also* helped get the rna vaccines faster. So Trump, with all his garbage spoken policy, behind the scenes was attempting to speed up vaccine research; and later, once either it wasn’t his pride as supreme commander on the line, or when he realized his speaking was where all the harm came from (with regard to covid), he changed his speaking and is now explicitly promoting the vaccines.
  - namelessoracle 5y ago
    This is odd and some modern newspeak to me. Trump was pro vaccine and went on about how they would get vaccines out at record time while he was being actively mocked by medical doctors that could never happen. And you had Biden and his admin saying they would be hesitant to take the vaccine. It wasn't until the companies waited until right after the election (almost immediately, and the timing set off all kinds of alarm bells for a lot of people) to announce the vaccine was ready that the narrative flipped, and even then I dont seem to recall Trump personally being skeptical of the vaccines. Do you have a link to that?
    - t-writescode 5y ago
      He never outright said that the vaccine wasn't a good idea, but he was against lockdowns and generally reduced the concern about the virus. A large part of the president's job is delivering messages to the public; and, overall, Trump's message is "nothing to fear" - which was accurate in the sense that he was throwing resources at getting a fix, but HORRIBLY INACCURATE when it comes to the personal efforts people could do to protect everyone. There's a reason that Red States didn't lock down as much and had higher case rates per capita, in general, and still do. The 12 disinformationists may have the most to blame about the anti-vaccine statuses; but the president didn't do any favors.
      - namelessoracle 5y ago
        This is alot of words to repeat what i said. He never came out against vaccines and even supported them recently (to right wing ire). He clearly views their existence as a credit to him and will likely campaign on that point in 2024.

betterunix2 5y ago

Except that Jesus taught his disciples not to wash their hands before eating -- a basic hygenic practice that people of his time certainly understood. However valuable his moral teachings may have been, Jesus is not exactly an authority on preventing disease spread... (Also, the story of Jesus and the leper may have been nothing more than an attempt to talk about Jesus' miraculous powers.)

ekianjo 5y ago
> not to wash their hands before eating if you dont have soap rinsing your hands with water that could be contaminated by a myriad of bacteria may not be the best course of action. Even in the modern world of less-developed countries, most gastrointestinal infections come from (unclean) water, not food.
- cainxinth 5y ago
  Soap was invented in 2800 BC
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    And you would be surprised that it was not routinely available everywhere, anytime, in antiquity. Mass consumption of soap is a very, very recent thing.
    - cainxinth 5y ago
      First hit from Google for “Did they use soap in biblical times?”: >”Soap became hugely popular throughout the Roman Empire, around 100 BC to 400 AD. When the ruins of Pompeii were excavated, an entire soap factory was discovered in the rubble.”
- JetAlone 5y ago
  You can wash your hands if you think it is wise to, but don't make it a matter of spiritual, ritual cleanliness that you place trust in the performance of above God as the pharisees did. As you say, God can make the water a worse poison to you. Honour your father and mother. Be just to your neighbor. Trust God above man and cultivate a loving relationship with both. The modern day godless neo-pharisees will of course, as always, ask questions and make remarks that are trite, intended to discredit people's faith, or trip heartfelt believers into contradiction. They want to maintain the social order they're scared of having overturned by a just man willing to make a real sacrifice going against its grain in a sorely needed fashion. They don't understand, so be it.

dTal 5y ago

"Scared of the air" is a phrase I've only heard covid deniers use. Most people understand that in fact we're scared of the deadly viruses floating in the air, which are a real thing that one should be scared of, and framing it to sound absurd like that is dishonest.

maxerickson 5y ago
It's even possible to be concerned about things like losing your sense of smell without that concern justifying the label "scared". Putting on sunscreen, not because I dislike the discomfort associated with sunburn but because I am scared of the Daystar.