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Everyone I know that is getting COVID-19 lately is vaccinated. Everyone I know that didn't get vaccinated hasn't even been sick.

pizza234 5y ago
The article starts with a statistic (as opposed to anecdote): > These findings demonstrate that such cases and hospitalizations have occurred in New York State, but at levels substantially lower than among unvaccinated people Of course, one could argue that New York State doesn't make a large scale statistic, but it's still far from being anecdata.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    Which studies?
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyearlyanalysisofcharacteristicsassociatedwiththeomicronvariantamongcovid19infectionsuk20december2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/coronavirus... "those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated"
      - mhh__ 5y ago
        And when was it censored? I note that it says "It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant." also. Does it mean more likely to get infected (given the same exposure) or more likely to be infected? The difference is quite important.
      - thanatosmin 5y ago
        “Note that this is the probability of an infection being Omicron given a person is infected, so it doesn’t tell us how likely a person is to test positive in the first place.”
      - manfredzab 5y ago
        You’re misinterpreting (unintentionally or otherwise) this statement. All this is saying is that P(Omicron variant | positive test AND 3x vaccine) > P(Omicron variant | positive test AND no vaccine). In no way this is implying P(Getting Omicron | 3x vaccine) > P(Getting Omicron | no vaccine).
      - jeffesp 5y ago
        You cut the sentence in the middle: "though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant." Which does not mean the unvaccinated are more likely to get omicron like you originally claimed. Just that if they are infected it is more likely to be omicron. Which means the vaccine is less effective against omicron than other variants, which we already know.
      - zach_miller 5y ago
        Feels like that’s more a statement about the efficacy of the vaccine against Delta vs Omicron. “…and test positive for COVID-19…” already narrows the groups down to only the positive cases, it’s not a statement about those groups’ relative sizes.
      - taeric 5y ago
        That... Is a different statement. It says that they are more likely to have a specific variant, given that they got infected. It did not say they are more likely to get infected. Right?
      - peteradio 5y ago
        When you are given priors you have to be very careful about what answer you are getting actually says. It says there are different viral profile in one group vs the other when we explicitly select for people with virus. Doesn't really tell us the detail involved of actually getting the virus.
      - donaldihunter 5y ago
        That para makes 2 more important points: "Vaccination status: those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant."
    - drno123 5y ago
      For example, check pages 30, 36 and 42 of the following report from Scotland: https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11089/22-01-12-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11089/22-01-12-covid...
      - drewg123 5y ago
        That's interesting. I wonder if most of the unvaccinated population has already been infected with an older variant of covid-19, and if that previous infection provides a more effective immune response than the vaccine for omicron?
        drno123 5y ago
        Either that, or vaccinated people are behaving as if they are fully protected and do not take care, while unvaccinated are more cautious. Recent data from Denmark shows the similr outcomes.
  - wand3r 5y ago
    Can you post one of these articles? What is the contention, people who are vaccinated are more likely to get omicron?
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      Here is the Pfizer-CEO board member approved truth ministry version: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicronvariant-breakthroughpro/fact-check-article-examining-the-probability-of-omicron-variant-breakthrough-cases-is-misinterpreted-online-idUSL1N2T81PO https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicronvariant-bre... Basically, statistics only matter when it shows what they want you to see, but when it says that triple vaxxed are 8% more likely to get Omicron than unvaxxed then you are drawing conclusions.
      - thanatosmin 5y ago
        “Note that this is the probability of an infection being Omicron given a person is infected, so it doesn’t tell us how likely a person is to test positive in the first place.”
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - wand3r 5y ago
        I dont really appreciate the conspiratorial or political framing, but I will contend that these results seem to support your claim.
      - rubyfan 5y ago
        It’s ironic that the article is about people using the study to spread misinformation about the results of the study. Social media users are misrepresenting these findings (on Omicron’s apparent ability to breakthrough vaccine protection) by saying those vaccinated are more susceptible to infection overall.
      - ttfkam 5y ago
        Did you read the whole article you linked? It doesn't say the vaccinated get Covid more often than unvaccinated. (They don't.) It doesn't say the vaccinated get Omicron more than unvaccinated. (They don't.) It merely says the vaccinated are infected by Omicron more than other variants like Delta. That's it. In other words, the vaccines are quite effective against Delta, but due to mutation, Omicron can slip past immunity a little easier. The vast majority of folks in hospitals and the morgues from Covid (Alpha, Delta, or Omicron) nowadays are unvaccinated.
ChicagoDave 5y ago
"Everyone I know" is anecdotal and most people that use this language are outright lying. Trump is an expert at "They're saying things are bad" and of course some people believe this nonsense. "Everyone" and "They" are propaganda tools. Make a claim. Provide the evidence. Otherwise you're just one of the people that refuses to accept reality.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
  What a ridiculous comment. The OP is not "denying reality" if his experience is as he stated. On the contrary, he would be denying reality if he would believe his observations have to be wrong. It is not reasonable to ask for "evidence" for his observations, either, as that is impossible to provide. Not even the article posted here provides any evidence, you just chose to trust them as an institution. He did not write an article for publication, it is just a comment in an internet forum. It is absolutely OK to report personal experiences in that context.
- argvargc 5y ago
  Your criticism comes across as very close to what you're criticising. You've provided only your anecdotal evidence, whilst creating another "they" - "one of those people" - that you same-breath decry as the tool of propagandists.
jscheel 5y ago
Did you even read the article you posted below (since flagged, not by me)? It outlines the study's results, which very clearly say that the results only show that omicron is effective at evading vaccines, and do not indicate any increased susceptibility based on vaccine use. It describes its results as "a measure of how well Omicron evades the vaccines compared to Delta." It also states, "from our recent characteristics release, we also see that unvaccinated people overall are more likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant" (emphasis mine). Not to mention the test-hesitancy of the un-vaccinated population. You need to stop spreading misleading interpretations.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Did you read it? It shows that triple boosted had a higher rate of contracting Omicron than unvaxxed. Funny how if it said the opposite, even hypothetically, that they'd be screaming it far and wide as facts and using it for fact checking, but if it indicates the opposite, then we can't draw any conclusions.
  - jscheel 5y ago
    Yes I did, and you are still misinterpreting its results. Omicron is more prevalent because it’s the one with the most vaccine breakthrough potential. In a vaccinated individual, omicron is the variant with the highest probability to be present. In the unvaccinated population, you all variants are competing for same infection, and you have a higher overall risk of infection regardless of variant.
wand3r 5y ago
Did the downstream thread get flagged? I replied to this comment and I only see 3-4 replies now. I can still view my own comment in context but it isn’t appearing.
responsivity 5y ago
What can we conclude / what should we do based on this information?
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  We can conclude that information used for statistics is easily manipulated, and if it indicates something, even hypothetical, that supports vaccines then it is considered unquestionable fact that vaccines are the only solution, but if it indicates negatives about vaccines, then we shouldn't draw any conclusions.

pizza234 5y ago

The article starts with a statistic (as opposed to anecdote): > These findings demonstrate that such cases and hospitalizations have occurred in New York State, but at levels substantially lower than among unvaccinated people Of course, one could argue that New York State doesn't make a large scale statistic, but it's still far from being anecdata.

encryptluks2 5y ago
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Which studies?
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyearlyanalysisofcharacteristicsassociatedwiththeomicronvariantamongcovid19infectionsuk20december2021 https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/coronavirus... "those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated"
    - mhh__ 5y ago
      And when was it censored? I note that it says "It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant." also. Does it mean more likely to get infected (given the same exposure) or more likely to be infected? The difference is quite important.
    - thanatosmin 5y ago
      “Note that this is the probability of an infection being Omicron given a person is infected, so it doesn’t tell us how likely a person is to test positive in the first place.”
    - manfredzab 5y ago
      You’re misinterpreting (unintentionally or otherwise) this statement. All this is saying is that P(Omicron variant | positive test AND 3x vaccine) > P(Omicron variant | positive test AND no vaccine). In no way this is implying P(Getting Omicron | 3x vaccine) > P(Getting Omicron | no vaccine).
    - jeffesp 5y ago
      You cut the sentence in the middle: "though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant." Which does not mean the unvaccinated are more likely to get omicron like you originally claimed. Just that if they are infected it is more likely to be omicron. Which means the vaccine is less effective against omicron than other variants, which we already know.
    - zach_miller 5y ago
      Feels like that’s more a statement about the efficacy of the vaccine against Delta vs Omicron. “…and test positive for COVID-19…” already narrows the groups down to only the positive cases, it’s not a statement about those groups’ relative sizes.
    - taeric 5y ago
      That... Is a different statement. It says that they are more likely to have a specific variant, given that they got infected. It did not say they are more likely to get infected. Right?
    - peteradio 5y ago
      When you are given priors you have to be very careful about what answer you are getting actually says. It says there are different viral profile in one group vs the other when we explicitly select for people with virus. Doesn't really tell us the detail involved of actually getting the virus.
    - donaldihunter 5y ago
      That para makes 2 more important points: "Vaccination status: those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant."
  - drno123 5y ago
    For example, check pages 30, 36 and 42 of the following report from Scotland: https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11089/22-01-12-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11089/22-01-12-covid...
    - drewg123 5y ago
      That's interesting. I wonder if most of the unvaccinated population has already been infected with an older variant of covid-19, and if that previous infection provides a more effective immune response than the vaccine for omicron?
      - drno123 5y ago
        Either that, or vaccinated people are behaving as if they are fully protected and do not take care, while unvaccinated are more cautious. Recent data from Denmark shows the similr outcomes.
- wand3r 5y ago
  Can you post one of these articles? What is the contention, people who are vaccinated are more likely to get omicron?
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Here is the Pfizer-CEO board member approved truth ministry version: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicronvariant-breakthroughpro/fact-check-article-examining-the-probability-of-omicron-variant-breakthrough-cases-is-misinterpreted-online-idUSL1N2T81PO https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicronvariant-bre... Basically, statistics only matter when it shows what they want you to see, but when it says that triple vaxxed are 8% more likely to get Omicron than unvaxxed then you are drawing conclusions.
    - thanatosmin 5y ago
      “Note that this is the probability of an infection being Omicron given a person is infected, so it doesn’t tell us how likely a person is to test positive in the first place.”
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - wand3r 5y ago
      I dont really appreciate the conspiratorial or political framing, but I will contend that these results seem to support your claim.
    - rubyfan 5y ago
      It’s ironic that the article is about people using the study to spread misinformation about the results of the study. Social media users are misrepresenting these findings (on Omicron’s apparent ability to breakthrough vaccine protection) by saying those vaccinated are more susceptible to infection overall.
    - ttfkam 5y ago
      Did you read the whole article you linked? It doesn't say the vaccinated get Covid more often than unvaccinated. (They don't.) It doesn't say the vaccinated get Omicron more than unvaccinated. (They don't.) It merely says the vaccinated are infected by Omicron more than other variants like Delta. That's it. In other words, the vaccines are quite effective against Delta, but due to mutation, Omicron can slip past immunity a little easier. The vast majority of folks in hospitals and the morgues from Covid (Alpha, Delta, or Omicron) nowadays are unvaccinated.

ChicagoDave 5y ago

"Everyone I know" is anecdotal and most people that use this language are outright lying. Trump is an expert at "They're saying things are bad" and of course some people believe this nonsense. "Everyone" and "They" are propaganda tools. Make a claim. Provide the evidence. Otherwise you're just one of the people that refuses to accept reality.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
What a ridiculous comment. The OP is not "denying reality" if his experience is as he stated. On the contrary, he would be denying reality if he would believe his observations have to be wrong. It is not reasonable to ask for "evidence" for his observations, either, as that is impossible to provide. Not even the article posted here provides any evidence, you just chose to trust them as an institution. He did not write an article for publication, it is just a comment in an internet forum. It is absolutely OK to report personal experiences in that context.
argvargc 5y ago
Your criticism comes across as very close to what you're criticising. You've provided only your anecdotal evidence, whilst creating another "they" - "one of those people" - that you same-breath decry as the tool of propagandists.

jscheel 5y ago

Did you even read the article you posted below (since flagged, not by me)? It outlines the study's results, which very clearly say that the results only show that omicron is effective at evading vaccines, and do not indicate any increased susceptibility based on vaccine use. It describes its results as "a measure of how well Omicron evades the vaccines compared to Delta." It also states, "from our recent characteristics release, we also see that unvaccinated people overall are more likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant" (emphasis mine). Not to mention the test-hesitancy of the un-vaccinated population. You need to stop spreading misleading interpretations.

encryptluks2 5y ago
Did you read it? It shows that triple boosted had a higher rate of contracting Omicron than unvaxxed. Funny how if it said the opposite, even hypothetically, that they'd be screaming it far and wide as facts and using it for fact checking, but if it indicates the opposite, then we can't draw any conclusions.
- jscheel 5y ago
  Yes I did, and you are still misinterpreting its results. Omicron is more prevalent because it’s the one with the most vaccine breakthrough potential. In a vaccinated individual, omicron is the variant with the highest probability to be present. In the unvaccinated population, you all variants are competing for same infection, and you have a higher overall risk of infection regardless of variant.

wand3r 5y ago

Did the downstream thread get flagged? I replied to this comment and I only see 3-4 replies now. I can still view my own comment in context but it isn’t appearing.

responsivity 5y ago

What can we conclude / what should we do based on this information?

encryptluks2 5y ago
We can conclude that information used for statistics is easily manipulated, and if it indicates something, even hypothetical, that supports vaccines then it is considered unquestionable fact that vaccines are the only solution, but if it indicates negatives about vaccines, then we shouldn't draw any conclusions.