5 ms·

Seriously. That's insanely obviously metal on metal, which shouldn't be a sound you find in the brake system, especially under what's clearly mild low speed br

by Syonyk 5y ago

Seriously. That's insanely obviously metal on metal, which shouldn't be a sound you find in the brake system, especially under what's clearly mild low speed braking. The next obvious question: If multiple people think that's "normal for a performance Model 3," how many others are being delivered without brake pads?

cromka 5y ago
Yeah, on top of that, as someone pointed out in the comment section on the page linked: "See that green dot on the top of the right picture? That is an assembly inspection mark that someone put there at the factory to indicate the caliper was 100% correct and inspected. Guess that person is bad at their job."
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's two people bad at their job. Both the person that assembled it and the person that checked it. When you build a car you do it from very precisely controlled sets of inventory, there is no way that you could build a car and have leftover parts and not know which car they belonged to at any build step.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    > When you build a car you do it from very precisely controlled sets of inventory... You should do it from... Remember, Tesla's shtick for a while was to claim that the legacy automakers were dumb dinosaurs who didn't know code, and therefore Tesla would show them by building sonic velocity lights out dreadnaught factories where there weren't any tolerances at all, and... currently builds cars on a line that's basically indistinguishable from what everyone else uses. In throwing out everything the "dinosaurs" did, it's entirely possible they threw out a range of useful things as well like "The number of parts delivered equals the number of vehicles to be built."
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Fair enough, they might be building them from large chunks of stock. Still, that would be a monumentally stupid move, you could easily forget something even more crucial like that, for instance a circlip on the steering housing. That would be a real surprise, better hope you have paid for self driving if that ever happens ;)
      - cromka 5y ago
        > they might be building them from large chunks of stock. That's not how it works, though. Pretty much every single item in a car, except maybe for some screws (which would be identified by a batch number, though), has a unique S/N, and they know which car is built with which part, so that they know which owners to ask to a service center if there's a recall. It's not like they just tak a part from a pile and don't precisely track what they have left. Source: used to develop a MES for an automotive plant that manufactured brakes, airbags and seatbelts.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        If you will take some time to read up on Tesla you'll see that they have their own unique processes. What I describe is apparently how Tesla works, I'm aware that in normal car manufacturing plants that is not how it works.
        cromka 5y ago
        I would assume that bunch of these processes are mandated by the regulatory bodies – at least in EU. So while they may have some unique processes, it is unlikely that they can avoid the requirement for traceability.
aunty_helen 5y ago
I'm not sure about the performance model 3 and it's brake pads but you can get performance break pads that sound like that. Even ones that sqeak at low speed. Ferodo DS2500 if you want a set for yourself. Drive to the track, track and home again without issues.
- cromka 5y ago
  I just checked: https://youtu.be/-KNXvqmqNr0?t=30 https://youtu.be/-KNXvqmqNr0?t=30 To be honest, what I hear is a whistling sound, not metal on metal – that kind of sound that instantly sends shivers down your spine.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  That's because they're doing the same things to the rotor at low temperatures that a caliper does - just abrading away rotor material to slow the car. Track pads are great when hot, not so amazing when cold. Yes, I know there are plenty that claim to be able to do everything, but your rotor life will suffer. However, it's not something one should expect from a factory vehicle - and if you've installed higher performance track pads yourself, you should be able to determine if it's normal. Also, they'll sound the same from all four corners - this sound just came from one corner.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I ran DS2500s for years on my first STI. They would resonate and make a squeal, but it wasn't at all the same as metal-on-metal grinding from a worn out or missing brake pad. Also, I don't recommend DS2500s on a street car. They're intended to be a compromise pad that works on the street and the track both, but the performance is significantly worse when they're not heated up, so the first stop of the day on a cool morning can be surprising. Better to get real street pads and real track pads and swap them. It's super easy on fixed caliper brakes.
  - aunty_helen 5y ago
    I ran the DS2500s for a couple years before shopping around a bit to see what was out there. I settled on custom made pads using a Mintex material which pn escapes me now. I used some pretty decent brands and pads and found the Forodos were the only ones that I couldn't get to fade in the hills. Their friction coefficient starts at 50c so it's definitely not unreasonable like actual race pads that can start in the 125c+ range. I only ever found them a little suprising when they had been hot hot and then the next morning it would take a bit more of a press on the peddal to pull up and the stop lights. I still always had confidence that if I stood on it they would pull up in time. As for running propper race pads at the track, that's fine and I had the same brembos you would've but replacing the rotors I was using wasn't something I wanted to shell out for every few track days. The Forodos never had any fade issues on track and I have a picture with the back wheels almost lifting as I brake from speed cut.

by Syonyk 5y ago

cromka 5y ago

Yeah, on top of that, as someone pointed out in the comment section on the page linked: "See that green dot on the top of the right picture? That is an assembly inspection mark that someone put there at the factory to indicate the caliper was 100% correct and inspected. Guess that person is bad at their job."

jacquesm 5y ago
That's two people bad at their job. Both the person that assembled it and the person that checked it. When you build a car you do it from very precisely controlled sets of inventory, there is no way that you could build a car and have leftover parts and not know which car they belonged to at any build step.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > When you build a car you do it from very precisely controlled sets of inventory... You should do it from... Remember, Tesla's shtick for a while was to claim that the legacy automakers were dumb dinosaurs who didn't know code, and therefore Tesla would show them by building sonic velocity lights out dreadnaught factories where there weren't any tolerances at all, and... currently builds cars on a line that's basically indistinguishable from what everyone else uses. In throwing out everything the "dinosaurs" did, it's entirely possible they threw out a range of useful things as well like "The number of parts delivered equals the number of vehicles to be built."
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Fair enough, they might be building them from large chunks of stock. Still, that would be a monumentally stupid move, you could easily forget something even more crucial like that, for instance a circlip on the steering housing. That would be a real surprise, better hope you have paid for self driving if that ever happens ;)
    - cromka 5y ago
      > they might be building them from large chunks of stock. That's not how it works, though. Pretty much every single item in a car, except maybe for some screws (which would be identified by a batch number, though), has a unique S/N, and they know which car is built with which part, so that they know which owners to ask to a service center if there's a recall. It's not like they just tak a part from a pile and don't precisely track what they have left. Source: used to develop a MES for an automotive plant that manufactured brakes, airbags and seatbelts.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        If you will take some time to read up on Tesla you'll see that they have their own unique processes. What I describe is apparently how Tesla works, I'm aware that in normal car manufacturing plants that is not how it works.
        cromka 5y ago
        I would assume that bunch of these processes are mandated by the regulatory bodies – at least in EU. So while they may have some unique processes, it is unlikely that they can avoid the requirement for traceability.

aunty_helen 5y ago

I'm not sure about the performance model 3 and it's brake pads but you can get performance break pads that sound like that. Even ones that sqeak at low speed. Ferodo DS2500 if you want a set for yourself. Drive to the track, track and home again without issues.

cromka 5y ago
I just checked: https://youtu.be/-KNXvqmqNr0?t=30 https://youtu.be/-KNXvqmqNr0?t=30 To be honest, what I hear is a whistling sound, not metal on metal – that kind of sound that instantly sends shivers down your spine.
Syonyk 5y ago
That's because they're doing the same things to the rotor at low temperatures that a caliper does - just abrading away rotor material to slow the car. Track pads are great when hot, not so amazing when cold. Yes, I know there are plenty that claim to be able to do everything, but your rotor life will suffer. However, it's not something one should expect from a factory vehicle - and if you've installed higher performance track pads yourself, you should be able to determine if it's normal. Also, they'll sound the same from all four corners - this sound just came from one corner.
rootusrootus 5y ago
I ran DS2500s for years on my first STI. They would resonate and make a squeal, but it wasn't at all the same as metal-on-metal grinding from a worn out or missing brake pad. Also, I don't recommend DS2500s on a street car. They're intended to be a compromise pad that works on the street and the track both, but the performance is significantly worse when they're not heated up, so the first stop of the day on a cool morning can be surprising. Better to get real street pads and real track pads and swap them. It's super easy on fixed caliper brakes.
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  I ran the DS2500s for a couple years before shopping around a bit to see what was out there. I settled on custom made pads using a Mintex material which pn escapes me now. I used some pretty decent brands and pads and found the Forodos were the only ones that I couldn't get to fade in the hills. Their friction coefficient starts at 50c so it's definitely not unreasonable like actual race pads that can start in the 125c+ range. I only ever found them a little suprising when they had been hot hot and then the next morning it would take a bit more of a press on the peddal to pull up and the stop lights. I still always had confidence that if I stood on it they would pull up in time. As for running propper race pads at the track, that's fine and I had the same brembos you would've but replacing the rotors I was using wasn't something I wanted to shell out for every few track days. The Forodos never had any fade issues on track and I have a picture with the back wheels almost lifting as I brake from speed cut.