5 ms·

I was resoundingly in the 'induction hobs are crap' camp until this NYE when we found ourselves staying away in the countryside in a place with a basic plug-in

I was resoundingly in the 'induction hobs are crap' camp until this NYE when we found ourselves staying away in the countryside in a place with a basic plug-in induction hob. I sighed and presumed my Absolutely Necessary morning tea would take until the heat death of the universe to boil, but nup, it was done in significantly less time than it takes me at home, when using gas. If a crappy plug-in hob can boil water that quickly, it can cook that quickly too. Next move I'm getting that sorted out - no more gas! (Mind you, companies are beginning trials here in the UK mixing Hydrogen with the gas supply, so there's a part of me that still wonders at the future benefit/end to end efficiency).

kibwen 5y ago
> there's a part of me that still wonders at the future benefit/end to end efficiency The future is in completely abandoning residential gas infrastructure, which will have immense benefits in allowing us to stop maintaining and expanding millions and millions of miles of leaky underground pipes. No amount of tweaking the mixture will change the fact that electricity is broadly useful for everything, and that gas is only useful for a small number of things that are quickly being overtaken by electricity. Hell, if we had devices that could instantly summon sufficient quantities of water from thin air, I'd get rid of my water hookup, too, even though water lines aren't nearly as bad for the atmosphere as gas lines are.
- detritus 5y ago
  Of course, but I'm more thinking about near to mid term, where a heck of a lot of domestic heating and cooking infrastructure has been built upon the assumption of gas, so is an incumbent sunk cost. All new builds and renovations should be encouraged to deploy full-electric. - ed: Sorry, I should've specified - I meant 'in the UK' for the large amount of existing gas infrastructure.
- yourapostasy 5y ago
  > The future is in completely abandoning residential gas infrastructure... Gas tankless water heaters are still sometimes a cost-efficient per-therm choice if you are already plumbed for gas [1] [2]. I've yet to find a calculator that figures the TCO (including costs that are externalized today, like pipe losses to the environment) between tankless water heaters using natural gas, propane, resistive electric, induction electric, and heat pump versions of those types, though. There are many different situations, so what is overall systemically efficient in one situation will not be suitable for another. It would come as little surprise to most HN readers that I have a number of very expensive resistive air heaters that we call computers laying around for my work, so in my particular situation, a heat pump water heater works extremely well. However, I'm still unsure of the TCO after all the maintenance and repair is accounted for over the decades I will own the heat pump as it is undeniably more complex than more common water heaters. So I will give a nod to resistive water heaters as a likely good TCO choice in most situations after all costs are said and done [3]. [1] https://www.ruud.com/products/water-heaters/tankless-water-heaters/energy_calculator/ https://www.ruud.com/products/water-heaters/tankless-water-h... [2] https://www.waterheaterleakinginfo.com/gas-vs-electric/ https://www.waterheaterleakinginfo.com/gas-vs-electric/ [3] https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-induction-heating-more-efficient-than-resistance-heating-for-a-water-heater.982621/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-induction-heating-m...
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Heat pump water heating works with surprisingly low temperatures. For example, if your basement naturally approaches 45-50 degrees from the walls, that's plenty to keep a 50-80 gallon tank heated without drawing heat from the rest of the house in the winter. During the other seasons, any incidental cooling is of course a benefit.
Sharlin 5y ago
But… Why did you think induction hobs were slow? It's almost their whole point that they're fast! Now, admittedly I'm speaking as someone who has never used a gas cooktop, and accustomed to coil-plate or glass-ceramic cooktops (gas hobs are very rare around here), and I guess anything is fast compared to a coil-plate, but still.
- detritus 5y ago
  My experience with these goes back decades, and my experience - outdated as it clearly is - was not positive.

kibwen 5y ago

> there's a part of me that still wonders at the future benefit/end to end efficiency The future is in completely abandoning residential gas infrastructure, which will have immense benefits in allowing us to stop maintaining and expanding millions and millions of miles of leaky underground pipes. No amount of tweaking the mixture will change the fact that electricity is broadly useful for everything, and that gas is only useful for a small number of things that are quickly being overtaken by electricity. Hell, if we had devices that could instantly summon sufficient quantities of water from thin air, I'd get rid of my water hookup, too, even though water lines aren't nearly as bad for the atmosphere as gas lines are.

detritus 5y ago
Of course, but I'm more thinking about near to mid term, where a heck of a lot of domestic heating and cooking infrastructure has been built upon the assumption of gas, so is an incumbent sunk cost. All new builds and renovations should be encouraged to deploy full-electric. - ed: Sorry, I should've specified - I meant 'in the UK' for the large amount of existing gas infrastructure.
yourapostasy 5y ago
> The future is in completely abandoning residential gas infrastructure... Gas tankless water heaters are still sometimes a cost-efficient per-therm choice if you are already plumbed for gas [1] [2]. I've yet to find a calculator that figures the TCO (including costs that are externalized today, like pipe losses to the environment) between tankless water heaters using natural gas, propane, resistive electric, induction electric, and heat pump versions of those types, though. There are many different situations, so what is overall systemically efficient in one situation will not be suitable for another. It would come as little surprise to most HN readers that I have a number of very expensive resistive air heaters that we call computers laying around for my work, so in my particular situation, a heat pump water heater works extremely well. However, I'm still unsure of the TCO after all the maintenance and repair is accounted for over the decades I will own the heat pump as it is undeniably more complex than more common water heaters. So I will give a nod to resistive water heaters as a likely good TCO choice in most situations after all costs are said and done [3]. [1] https://www.ruud.com/products/water-heaters/tankless-water-heaters/energy_calculator/ https://www.ruud.com/products/water-heaters/tankless-water-h... [2] https://www.waterheaterleakinginfo.com/gas-vs-electric/ https://www.waterheaterleakinginfo.com/gas-vs-electric/ [3] https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-induction-heating-more-efficient-than-resistance-heating-for-a-water-heater.982621/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-induction-heating-m...
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Heat pump water heating works with surprisingly low temperatures. For example, if your basement naturally approaches 45-50 degrees from the walls, that's plenty to keep a 50-80 gallon tank heated without drawing heat from the rest of the house in the winter. During the other seasons, any incidental cooling is of course a benefit.

Sharlin 5y ago

But… Why did you think induction hobs were slow? It's almost their whole point that they're fast! Now, admittedly I'm speaking as someone who has never used a gas cooktop, and accustomed to coil-plate or glass-ceramic cooktops (gas hobs are very rare around here), and I guess anything is fast compared to a coil-plate, but still.

detritus 5y ago
My experience with these goes back decades, and my experience - outdated as it clearly is - was not positive.