13 ms·

United States Pirate Party

176 points by Radiojoe 5y ago

Radiojoe 5y ago
Our name might seem silly at first, but you should remember everyone has been labelled a pirate at some point in the last few decades. Movie studios and recording companies place their propaganda in front of us at every chance they get, they waste your time with warnings on DVDs you’ve legitimately purchased or movies you watch at the cinema. They’ve told us over and over that home taping on to cassettes would kill the radio, that recording a TV show on to the VCR would bring an end to free-to-air TV, or sharing an MP3 music song with a friend will cause the end of musicians’ careers. The list goes on but here’s the important point: at every turn, at every change in technology, the rights-holders always say the same thing: ‘no, we don’t want you doing that’. These rights-holders donate to our major political parties, they’ve lobbied for and changed our laws to protect their profits and their outdated distribution monopolies. They’ve had their hand in writing trade agreements and international law, all in a failing attempt to control how you access your culture online. This is how the Pirate movement began; as a reaction to the corrupt corporate, political, and rent-seeking encroachment on a free and open internet, and our democracy.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "Our name might seem silly at first" The original pirates were and are murderers, rapist and thiefs. Despite some romantication going on - this is what they are doing. So I always thought it is not a smart idea, to adopt the name, that was meant as criticism.
  - krapp 5y ago
    Most, romantic and heroic archetypes are murderers, rapists and thieves. Pirates, knights, samurai, cowboys are all romantic ideals and ugly realities. Heroes in antiquity like Hercules were portrayed little better - to be a hero was to be the most violent man in a violent world ruled by violent gods, and to this day modern heroes (including obviously superheroes) are almost always associated with aggression and violence. Americans often pride themselves on revolutionary ideals which spread chaos, pain and suffering throughout the world, to the point of looking down on countries stable enough not to have constant gun violence. We hold soldiers and police in far greater esteem than doctors and scholars. We write love letters to serial killers. We root for underdogs, villains and rebels by default. Let's be honest - it is a silly name, mostly because it seems childish and tone-deaf given more pressing modern political issues, but not because of any implied association with rape, pillage and plunder. If anything, that probably sells better in the US than elsewhere.
- EpicEng 5y ago
  So... you want to get into office based solely on media copyright issues and literally every other issue is "elect us and we'll figure it out!". Very hard to take seriously, good luck. And yes, your name is silly. You should change it; messaging matters and you start with your left foot forward.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    I think we need fewer package deals when it comes to politics. At least in the US, if you feel strongly about a single issue, you currently have to find the party that aligns with that view. But then when you vote for them, you also are voting for a great big basket of crazy that comes along for the ride, in the form of "that party's platform". I personally can't in good conscience vote for either of the Big-2 because of this baggage. It would be great to have candidate that just said "You know what, I'm going to for sure support this one particular issue, and abstain on the rest." I'd be up for that.
    - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
      There are a lot of legal and historical reasons for the two-party situation in the US. Nobody except the ruling class likes it, but the ruling class really really likes it. There have been a lot of efforts made to change it. This is one of multiple worst strategies I’ve ever seen.
      - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        There is exactly one reason for the two-party situation in the US. First past the post voting system. It causes any third party with non-trivial support to merge into one of the major parties to avoid splitting the vote with whichever one is most similar to them. Switch to range voting, STAR voting, approval voting, and it goes away. The incumbent parties don't have a lot of incentive to do that because tautologically the people currently in office are the people the existing system puts in office, so why would they want a different one? But even a lot of politicians are pretty jaded about the existing system. Get a couple third parties in there who are willing to turn a 51 vote majority into a 49 vote minority over this and you might get it through.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  Pretty much nobody really cares about these issues. I am aware of the history of Pirate parties in the Nordic countries but you are completely wasting your time with this in the US. You’d get a lot more attention by talking about free speech and social media regulation, but nothing like this will ever be anything but a hobby club.
  - Radiojoe 5y ago
    Maybe, but it is something we all feel is important, and should have at least one group talking about it. For too long have these laws avoided any scrutiny in the public eye through obscurity, intentional or not.
    - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
      Fwiw, socialists have a derogatory term for prioritizing immaterial political agendas like yours. We call it “library socialism.” Some try to wear the label on their sleeve, thinking it’s cute. Socialists, however, recognize that your agenda can only be realized by confronting the capitalist mode of production, which only enforces copyright and intellectual property law to temporarily mitigate the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. In other words, it is a systemic component of capitalism beyond a certain stage of development, and it cannot simply be opted out of.
- sometimeshuman 5y ago
  As a gainfully employed adult, it is hard to personally justify piracy of entertainment media. Now if this discussion was about open access to science, medical, and technical papers, many of which were funded by tax payer dollars, then you'd have my donor dollars. Otherwise you are championing an issue that is doubtfully on anyone's top 100 problems list.
  - danielrpa 5y ago
    I'm voter in the United States and this is on my top 100 problems list.
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Just because, as a gainfully employed adult, you can now afford it, doesn't mean it's right; doesn't mean the system isn't in need of fixing. It just means you're now able to ignore the problem.
  - Radiojoe 5y ago
    We often use popular mediums as a stepping stone to help discuss these more important pieces of media, make no mistake, open access to intellectual materials is our goal, alongside entertainment media, to a different degree.
  - 4gotunameagain 5y ago
    One justification could be that the percentage of the profit which lands to the original creator is often peanuts. We have an _enormous_ industry enforcing copyright laws which barely make sense, and imo that industry is parasitic
  - theplumber 5y ago
    What about DRM?
    - antifa 5y ago
      We can't stop here, we also need initiatives to promote open source.
- vmception 5y ago
  Have you considered running for office with one of the major parties? Its not very crowded in the house. You’ll have better luck there
- _8j50 5y ago
  Your link to check if there is a party in your state does not work, cuts off at new hampshire. Also, I agree with not being left/right wing but inability or unwillingness to commit to some belief or guiding principles that tells people how your policies might affect issues important to them is very bad. If I have an illegal immigrant family member, will you be hunting them down for deportation, after all they broke the law. Will you allow sharia law as an extension of people's right to practice their faith? will you reform immigration? If so, how? Will you end the visa lottery or amp it up? How about H1B and other skilled worker visas? I have colleagues that will have their entire lives impacted by that. Will you reform police and the military and if so how? Just funding? Will you, as a pirate actually restrict gun ownership, enact balanced reforms or leave things as is? I am not saying take a position on every issue now but I can't tell it apart from satire when you are not even hinting at what your principles are. Change for the sake if change is something juvenile people whose only goal is to self-aggrandize and give their own lives meaning at any cost. To me, you are actually a bit dangerous because you want to scoop up support fully knowing screaming change like Obama will help a lot. Do you have a sinister motive? No idea, all I know is people like this, college/young kids start small and actually revolt in many other countries, but in the end, either the military or some other power takes control. I like "piracy" and identify with what you are saying but idealism without principles and leadership is at best folly and at worst dangerous.
  - Radiojoe 5y ago
    Hi, though we are centered on a few topics, within our discord we have a platform committee which is hammering this out over time, though as we are a coalition of diverse individuals, this has not been fast or easy, as we prefer a sizable majority in our party before passing a platform proposal, feel free to join to get a better idea of our ideas outside the core!
- 34679 5y ago
  Don't forget scientific knowledge. https://sci-hub.se/ https://sci-hub.se/
  - Radiojoe 5y ago
    I <3 Sci hub
- pharmakom 5y ago
  if their attempts are "failing" why a pirate party?
- noduerme 5y ago
  I think point 5 - standing for individual rights over corporate rights - should be point one.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Their foremost goal should be to launch across-the-board primary challenges against all the congress-critters who have either endorsed or voted for IP-maximalist legislation in the past. This is how the Tea Party got its start, and now they rule the GOP. It works.
nomorecommas 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments? It's not what this site is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29943518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29943518.
  - nomorecommas 5y ago
    I'm okay with a ban if you don't want me here.
    - dang 5y ago
      I'd rather persuade you to use HN as intended!
      - nomorecommas 5y ago
jevoten 5y ago
> Platform: Putting People Before Corporations [..] Opening up Government [i.e. transparency] Every party makes similar promises. Instead, lead with what makes you different - your focus on IP law and digital rights. Perhaps even emphasize your flexibility or neutrality on other issues, so that your voting base isn't decimated by your positions on wedge issues.
- brightly-salty 5y ago
  I wouldn't call putting people before corporations and opening up government wedge issues; they're right in line with the Pirate Wheel[0] which leads to all pirate politics' positions on issues. I think these are excellent examples of what the US Pirate Party should focus on. [0]: https://falkvinge.net/pirate-wheel/ https://falkvinge.net/pirate-wheel/
  - jevoten 5y ago
    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply those were wedge issues. I agree they're in line with pirate party ideals, but they're also in-line with the (stated) ideals of nearly every other party. Featuring them so prominently is like a restaurant advertising that they prepare meals using, among others, water and heat.
    - brightly-salty 5y ago
      Really? I could see the other third parties like Green Party, American Solidarity Party, Libertarian Party, etc. having those issues on their platform. But Republicans and Democrats have shown time and time again that they value corporations over people and want the government to be more closed. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though
      - jevoten 5y ago
        You misunderstand me. That they don't practice those ideals doesn't stop them from including them in their party platforms. Parties can distinguish themselves in two ways: with promises, and with actions. Until they gain power, the pirate party can only distinguish itself with promises. And it can't do so if it promises the same things as every other party.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dane-pgp 5y ago
> Do you have a position on abortion, gun control, or gay marriage? How about the radical position of letting each state decide for itself? They could even have the party in each state decide its own position, rather than enforcing a one-size-fits-all policy centrally. Of course it's nice to think that there is one "right" answer to all those questions, and that the world would be better if we could just use the law to force other people to go along with what we want, but I think recent history has shown that just makes politics more dysfunctional and leaves everyone unhappy.
- mfcl 5y ago
  I would like to know why this is down voted.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    Probably because civil liberties shouldn't end at state lines.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      If only we could all agree what counts as a civil liberty (and who is entitled to them).
      - evrydayhustling 5y ago
        Whichever liberties you prefer, what makes a state line a better boundary than a federal one for choosing a policy?
        dane-pgp 5y ago
        What makes a federal/national one better than an international one, or an individual one, for that matter? I admit, it's not an easy question, and my suggestion isn't guaranteed to work, but if there is complete deadlock and extreme polarization (potentially leading to violent conflict) at the national level, it's at least plausible that delegating some of those policies to smaller, more politically homogeneous, units might reduce the tensions, and make it easier for people to vote with their feet if they are unhappy with the rules they live under.
mjevans 5y ago
The choose your state dropdown is lazy-populated, so the last half (everything after New Hampshire) fails to load under my default browsing configuration. A list of 50 states and some US territories should just be statically included.
- quickthrower2 5y ago
  Oh yeah its broken on iOS safari in that the later states are all “state”
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  Yeah, admittedly, our site is in a bit of disrepair right now, but we are trying to get up to snuff over time
bhhaskin 5y ago
Sorry, is this some kind of joke? If not, yikes. The site seems broken or disorganized. Nothing on who supposedly runs the party. One of there last posts is about the Patriot Act which isn't really a thing anymore.
- brightly-salty 5y ago
  The Patriot Act is still alive and well, it's simply dropped out of the public imagination. It's still harming people through excessive surveillance and the lack of privacy, which is one of the reasons we would work to repeal it if we were to gain power nationally.
TulliusCicero 5y ago
My understanding is that when pirate parties actually got some amount of power (by getting into the legislature) in other countries, things got weird, by nature of them having to establish policy positions on lots of stuff other than IP law. Like suddenly you need a position on green energy and foreign interventions and public teacher salaries and zoning and all the other things a regular party is gonna have to vote on. And this conflicted with how they got popularity and power, which was by being largely single issue.
- zajio1am 5y ago
  > And this conflicted with how they got popularity and power, which was by being largely single issue In Czechia (where a pirate party is currently a part of the government) it was IMHO quite the reverse - the Czech Pirate Party mostly gained popularity by accenting ordinary center-liberal political themes.
  - cuddlybacon 5y ago
    It's hard to gain too much insight from Wikipedia, but it looks like it fills a niche that was empty. The Pirate Party of Canada used to be quite active on r/CanadaPolitics. Once they fleshed out their platform they ended up overlapping heavily with the NDP and Greens (particularly the Greens). I think many Pirate Parties have fallen into similar traps when they fleshed out their platform.
    - zajio1am 5y ago
      > It's hard to gain too much insight from Wikipedia, but it looks like it fills a niche that was empty. Yes, pretty much. There are Greens in Czechia but they are more left-progressive (compared to center-liberal pirates) and they are unacceptable for many because of their anti-nuclear position.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    ... and put the ideas about IP reform on the back burner, to my dismay.
mrkentutbabi 5y ago
> Do you have a position on abortion, gun control, or gay marriage? > Right now we are working on developing more comprehensive policies. > Are you left-wing or right-wing? > We think “left-wing” and “right-wing” aren’t very useful ways of seeing the world Although I generally agree, but man this gonna be wild...
betwixthewires 5y ago
I'm a fan of the party. For a good idea of what sort of ideas this spawns from, check out the founder's blog https://falkvinge.net/ https://falkvinge.net/ Basically imagine libertarians with a strong drive to consider practical matters over ideology. Individual liberties, but drop the ideology and do what works for people, and what the people want as a whole.
dabinat 5y ago
Not sure I agree with the abolition of patents. If it takes you a decade or more to invent something and then someone else can immediately copy and sell it, what incentive do you have to do all that work? I do agree that patents/copyright need reform and a reduced patent period could be beneficial, but I think complete abolition would backfire.
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  You're forgetting about the Overton window. If what you really want is e.g. abolition of software patents, what you want to do is to start off demanding abolition of all patents and then compromise at abolition of software patents. That's what the other side does.
- squarefoot 5y ago
  Patents, just like capitalism, aren't bad by themselves, but if left in the hands of powerful people/entities who can abuse and extend them at will for profits they become dangerous and cancerous, just like capitalism. The solution is probably in some form of strict control that prevents their abuse; very hard to realize if those abusing patents are the same people who dictate rules, or very close to them.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Look at how much open source has revolutionized the software industry. It teaches us a few lessons. First, that people invent for the joy of it regardless. And second, that innovation happens faster when unencumbered. Another good example is penicillin. Imagine where we would be with bacterial infections today without it entering the public domain from day 1. I understand the desire to own your work, and immediately arriving at the conclusion that patents are morally or ethically right, but fundamentally when you release some piece of information into the world, it is for all practical purposes no longer yours. Patents are an artificial protection for something that simply isn't true in practice, and it doesn't appear that it increases innovation at all, if your focus is the practical side of things.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gnopgnip 5y ago
What about compulsory licensing for music being expanded to cover tv and movies?
everyone 5y ago
I hate the pirate party name. Also the name of the pirate bay. "Piracy" was a term greedy corporations used PR to apply to sharing. Like sharing tapes and filesharing. They will say they took the term and made it their own but imo its still a victory for the PR fuckers.
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  Honestly, I see where you're coming from, but personally I think the connotation behind "pirates" (Treasure Island > Pirates of the Caribbean) has changed enough that the entire name has been flipped on its head, making it more of a virtue than a crutch, you know what I mean?
bb88 5y ago
What's their stance on web3? Cuz I'm against it.
flimflamm 5y ago
Finnish pirate party https://www.piraattipuolue.fi/ https://www.piraattipuolue.fi/
Thorentis 5y ago
Why would copyright last for 14 years, but then patents wouldn't exist? It makes perfect sense for inventors to have a short monopoly on their creations. Patent law should certainly be reformed so that patents need to be more specific, limited in scope, and so on.
galaxyLogic 5y ago
It is a good idea that people should get more active in politics but think about this statement from their web-site: "What is your goal? Our primary goal is to get elected into office. We believe in political change from the inside." The goal of these "pirates" is stated very clearly: To get power. Not to chance the society in a particular way or direction, but to get power to themselves (who else?). To get elected. Then what? Oh we'll think about that later but our current goal is to get elected.
- labster 5y ago
  So… no different from any other political party, then.
galaxyLogic 5y ago
I don't think it's a bad idea to say "We are neither left nor right", since "left" and "right" are not very clearly defined concepts, and most people have chosen their side on that dimension already . A better question for the FAQ would be: Are you pro-democracy, or pro-autocracy? How do you plan to promote your choice of democracy, or autocracy, in practice?
- _of 5y ago
  > A better question for the FAQ would be: Are you pro-democracy, or pro-autocracy? Or technocracy?
  - cdot2 5y ago
    Thats just a form of autocracy
- Gentil 5y ago
  This should be the last thought. People should be taught tolerance and be patient about ideas and thoughts that are against yours. The world is not black and white and this left and right thought process which is extremely binary is hurting us all in the long run. Just look at how politicians went about things in the olden times. Even when they disagreed on things, they were far far better than just raging against each other like they are doing now!
  - malloryerik 5y ago
    "It should be the last thought" may be acceptable when you're figuring out what you believe in, but surely not when you're running for office or forming a political organization.
    - Gentil 5y ago
      I would like to respectfully disagree. There are centre, centre-right and centre-left parties in Europe. If am not mistaken, Angela Merkel's party is centre-right. But even if it isn't, there are other types of parties than just Left and Right. Right and Left which are just two sides is way too narrow view of the world.
birdyrooster 5y ago
"We’re not driven by ideology, we just aim to do what works." So you are pragmatists?
einpoklum 5y ago
The USA is notorious - especially in recent decades - for discouraging parties other than the two large corporate-influenced ones (the Republican and Democratic parties): You have barriers to listing on the ballot; the state financing primaries of the two large parties; limited public funding, vs. lax regulation and effectively little limitation on commercial/corporate funding, for election campaigns; strong affiliation of the main media outlets with one or the other large parties; and not last and certainly not least: Many elections in the US are "first-past-the-post", with no proportional representation, which also tends to favor the largest parties. For this reason, the strategy of pirate parties in other world states - gaining a few parliamentary seats on a limited-focus platform (or centrism/third-way'ism + "pirate" principles) - is essentially invalid in the US. It is my opinion that this is "copycat politics"; and while I certainly support legalized file sharing, better privacy rights, limitation of intellectual property etc. - I believe this initiative would be better served either by forming a "third party coalition" with other movements/parties (e.g. Greens, Libertarians, People's Party if they actually start running people), or, and it pains me to say this, form caucuses within the one or both of the large parties. And I say this with the utmost respect for your efforts. --- PS - "No safe harbor for the enemies of liberty" <- bad choice of slogan, it reminds people of how the US drone-bombs people to death all over the world.
getcrunk 5y ago
This is gonna sound super random but one thing you can add to the political positions is prison reform(for profit, quotas, in jail cus can't post bail for non violent crimes) and fair sentencing. It's related cus pirates are subject to unfair penalties and if jail, our jails are pure evil
- brightly-salty 5y ago
  Yes, that's on our docket to add to the platform because many of us feel strongly on the topic. Thanks for bringing it up, you should join our platform comittee on the Discord![0] [0]: https://discord.gg/MrdnPxzrf2 https://discord.gg/MrdnPxzrf2
leashless 5y ago
I did a little work on Pirate Party politics in the UK about 10 years ago. One (unfortunately unsuccessful) approach we tried was to get Pirates to write short manifestos about what Pirate Politics really were. Here is one: https://web.archive.org/web/20140906172617/https://www.wired.com/2009/10/and-yet-another-pirate-manifesto/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140906172617/https://www.wired... (that one is mine)
TulliusCicero 5y ago
> Currently pharmaceutical companies spend only 15% of their revenue on new drug research. The remaining 85% is spent on activities such as marketing and profit taking. [Citation needed] I'd like to see a budget breakdown of what these companies spend on research, manufacturing, marketing, etc. At a glance, from looking at CBO pages, it looks like average R&D spend is actually more like in the 18-20% range, and that this isn't unusual for industries, which makes sense since they have other costs beyond R&D.
- speedcoder 5y ago
  Gee. How about a license to be able to live? Isn't that where it is at?
malloryerik 5y ago
With all of the deadly important issues in the US and the world today these folks have locked their compass on "the legalization of sharing movies, music and other art online"? Is this not satire? Perhaps these "pirates" should watch some illegally downloaded copies of "Don't Look Up." And their wisdom should be so plain to see that we trust them to come up with good decisions later for small details like the world outside of file sharing? "Aye, matey! I'll have me platforme on global warmin' just after I finishe a-pirate-watchin' this last season of 'ye Witcher!' and several other crucial arts, perhaps a-playin' some cracked games in which I'll learn about what's called the economies." I'm not trying to deny that intellectual property issues can be important, even extremely so. It's argued that Germany's rise was related to a lack of copyright[1], and we can think of patents on medicine and many other areas where copyright is crucial, even foundational. But please... [1] https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-law-the-real-reason-for-germany-s-industrial-expansion-a-710976.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-...
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > With all of the deadly important issues in the US and the world today Thanks, that was a perfect example of whataboutism. Why do you assume that IPR law is not an "important issue"? It's certainly important wrt. economic development, as you point out that Germany has benefited in the past from having looser IP restrictions. And a stronger economy helps us deal with all kinds of other issues, including climate change.
- speedcoder 5y ago
  So what is the inception of ownership?
  - malloryerik 5y ago
    You mean on what basis do we justify ownership and property? As far as I can see there's no strong intrinsic justification for private property, but rather it's subordinate to other values like justice and well-being. History is filled with various approaches to property, and at least in my point of view I have to consider it as something decided by politics and culture. Btw that doesn't mean that because you might disagree with your society's approach to property that it's morally defensible to steal, etc.
cuddlybacon 5y ago
> We think “left-wing” and “right-wing” aren’t very useful ways of seeing the world, and that they make a lot of people falsely believe that they disagree with each other. We’re not driven by ideology, we just aim to do what works. I don't think that great way of describing political positions, but they are at least _a_ way of describing political positions. If they are going to reject the terms, I'd prefer they at least answer the question in a better way instead of rejecting it. But... I do not think left and right trick people into falsely believing that they disagree with each other. Instead I see them as an acknowledgement that political positions tend to cluster. Add in an election system that tends towards two party rule, and left and right wing sorta makes sense. Everyone is driven by ideology. I think those that say they are above ideology don't really get why different ideologies are different. People's political positions are an expression of their core values. There have been a few books I've read that make the case for this. I think The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt does it best. One thing he discusses in that book is an ideology can represent a mix of values or be an expression of a single value. One bit of research he showed had people doing a test where they were told to answer as a person from a different ideology. He found those who belonged to single-value ideologies did worse. In particular it could be seen that these participants assumed people of other ideologies believed in the same one value but where just worse at achieving it. I bring this up, because I think it is going on here. For left and right to falsely believe they disagree with each other, they would have to be trying to achieve the same goal. The same values. I think the Party says this because they want this to be inclusive of people from other ideologies, and I think they earnestly want to achieve that. But I think that thinking about it this way will prevent them from being successful. With this mindset, I think they are most likely to end up with whichever ideology is biggest becoming absolutely dominate. Similar to what happened with Occupy Wall Street. I think they'd get better success on this goal if they learned why different ideologies are different, what the different values they are aiming for are, why the core Pirate Party positions align with those different sets of values, and for other issues try to pick positions that best serve multiple sets of values.
mark_l_watson 5y ago
Great, I am not down at all with our current two party system where both parties are controlled by Wall Street and other elites’ interests. Elites make lots of money killing people, the military industrial complex is the mother of all super lobbyists. After being a life long liberal Democrat who has donated a lot to people like Bernie and Tulsi Gabbard, last year I decided I that for my personal reasons I had to be in a political party that was clearly anti-war unless our country was directly attacked. I decided that the Green Party was too small so I ended up joining the Libertarian Party, some things I like and some I don’t, but clearly anti-war.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a more concrete position on things like gerrymandering and alternatives to FPtP voting schemes. Given the party's core value of government openness and greater citizen voice in government, it seems very odd to have only vagaries.
gk1256 5y ago
Liberty is not anarchism.
speedcoder 5y ago
Pirates actually helped in the Revolutionary War: https://www.historynet.com/pirates-of-the-revolution.htm https://www.historynet.com/pirates-of-the-revolution.htm . Many pirates considered themselves free and held that legitimate comity between 2 people can exist without 3rd party control such as the Crown.

176 points by Radiojoe 5y ago

Our name might seem silly at first, but you should remember everyone has been labelled a pirate at some point in the last few decades. Movie studios and recording companies place their propaganda in front of us at every chance they get, they waste your time with warnings on DVDs you’ve legitimately purchased or movies you watch at the cinema. They’ve told us over and over that home taping on to cassettes would kill the radio, that recording a TV show on to the VCR would bring an end to free-to-air TV, or sharing an MP3 music song with a friend will cause the end of musicians’ careers. The list goes on but here’s the important point: at every turn, at every change in technology, the rights-holders always say the same thing: ‘no, we don’t want you doing that’. These rights-holders donate to our major political parties, they’ve lobbied for and changed our laws to protect their profits and their outdated distribution monopolies. They’ve had their hand in writing trade agreements and international law, all in a failing attempt to control how you access your culture online. This is how the Pirate movement began; as a reaction to the corrupt corporate, political, and rent-seeking encroachment on a free and open internet, and our democracy.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Our name might seem silly at first" The original pirates were and are murderers, rapist and thiefs. Despite some romantication going on - this is what they are doing. So I always thought it is not a smart idea, to adopt the name, that was meant as criticism.
- krapp 5y ago
  Most, romantic and heroic archetypes are murderers, rapists and thieves. Pirates, knights, samurai, cowboys are all romantic ideals and ugly realities. Heroes in antiquity like Hercules were portrayed little better - to be a hero was to be the most violent man in a violent world ruled by violent gods, and to this day modern heroes (including obviously superheroes) are almost always associated with aggression and violence. Americans often pride themselves on revolutionary ideals which spread chaos, pain and suffering throughout the world, to the point of looking down on countries stable enough not to have constant gun violence. We hold soldiers and police in far greater esteem than doctors and scholars. We write love letters to serial killers. We root for underdogs, villains and rebels by default. Let's be honest - it is a silly name, mostly because it seems childish and tone-deaf given more pressing modern political issues, but not because of any implied association with rape, pillage and plunder. If anything, that probably sells better in the US than elsewhere.
EpicEng 5y ago
So... you want to get into office based solely on media copyright issues and literally every other issue is "elect us and we'll figure it out!". Very hard to take seriously, good luck. And yes, your name is silly. You should change it; messaging matters and you start with your left foot forward.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  I think we need fewer package deals when it comes to politics. At least in the US, if you feel strongly about a single issue, you currently have to find the party that aligns with that view. But then when you vote for them, you also are voting for a great big basket of crazy that comes along for the ride, in the form of "that party's platform". I personally can't in good conscience vote for either of the Big-2 because of this baggage. It would be great to have candidate that just said "You know what, I'm going to for sure support this one particular issue, and abstain on the rest." I'd be up for that.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    There are a lot of legal and historical reasons for the two-party situation in the US. Nobody except the ruling class likes it, but the ruling class really really likes it. There have been a lot of efforts made to change it. This is one of multiple worst strategies I’ve ever seen.
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      There is exactly one reason for the two-party situation in the US. First past the post voting system. It causes any third party with non-trivial support to merge into one of the major parties to avoid splitting the vote with whichever one is most similar to them. Switch to range voting, STAR voting, approval voting, and it goes away. The incumbent parties don't have a lot of incentive to do that because tautologically the people currently in office are the people the existing system puts in office, so why would they want a different one? But even a lot of politicians are pretty jaded about the existing system. Get a couple third parties in there who are willing to turn a 51 vote majority into a 49 vote minority over this and you might get it through.
nopenopenopeno 5y ago
Pretty much nobody really cares about these issues. I am aware of the history of Pirate parties in the Nordic countries but you are completely wasting your time with this in the US. You’d get a lot more attention by talking about free speech and social media regulation, but nothing like this will ever be anything but a hobby club.
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  Maybe, but it is something we all feel is important, and should have at least one group talking about it. For too long have these laws avoided any scrutiny in the public eye through obscurity, intentional or not.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    Fwiw, socialists have a derogatory term for prioritizing immaterial political agendas like yours. We call it “library socialism.” Some try to wear the label on their sleeve, thinking it’s cute. Socialists, however, recognize that your agenda can only be realized by confronting the capitalist mode of production, which only enforces copyright and intellectual property law to temporarily mitigate the tendency for the rate of profit to fall. In other words, it is a systemic component of capitalism beyond a certain stage of development, and it cannot simply be opted out of.
sometimeshuman 5y ago
As a gainfully employed adult, it is hard to personally justify piracy of entertainment media. Now if this discussion was about open access to science, medical, and technical papers, many of which were funded by tax payer dollars, then you'd have my donor dollars. Otherwise you are championing an issue that is doubtfully on anyone's top 100 problems list.
- danielrpa 5y ago
  I'm voter in the United States and this is on my top 100 problems list.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Just because, as a gainfully employed adult, you can now afford it, doesn't mean it's right; doesn't mean the system isn't in need of fixing. It just means you're now able to ignore the problem.
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  We often use popular mediums as a stepping stone to help discuss these more important pieces of media, make no mistake, open access to intellectual materials is our goal, alongside entertainment media, to a different degree.
- 4gotunameagain 5y ago
  One justification could be that the percentage of the profit which lands to the original creator is often peanuts. We have an _enormous_ industry enforcing copyright laws which barely make sense, and imo that industry is parasitic
- theplumber 5y ago
  What about DRM?
  - antifa 5y ago
    We can't stop here, we also need initiatives to promote open source.
vmception 5y ago
Have you considered running for office with one of the major parties? Its not very crowded in the house. You’ll have better luck there
_8j50 5y ago
Your link to check if there is a party in your state does not work, cuts off at new hampshire. Also, I agree with not being left/right wing but inability or unwillingness to commit to some belief or guiding principles that tells people how your policies might affect issues important to them is very bad. If I have an illegal immigrant family member, will you be hunting them down for deportation, after all they broke the law. Will you allow sharia law as an extension of people's right to practice their faith? will you reform immigration? If so, how? Will you end the visa lottery or amp it up? How about H1B and other skilled worker visas? I have colleagues that will have their entire lives impacted by that. Will you reform police and the military and if so how? Just funding? Will you, as a pirate actually restrict gun ownership, enact balanced reforms or leave things as is? I am not saying take a position on every issue now but I can't tell it apart from satire when you are not even hinting at what your principles are. Change for the sake if change is something juvenile people whose only goal is to self-aggrandize and give their own lives meaning at any cost. To me, you are actually a bit dangerous because you want to scoop up support fully knowing screaming change like Obama will help a lot. Do you have a sinister motive? No idea, all I know is people like this, college/young kids start small and actually revolt in many other countries, but in the end, either the military or some other power takes control. I like "piracy" and identify with what you are saying but idealism without principles and leadership is at best folly and at worst dangerous.
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  Hi, though we are centered on a few topics, within our discord we have a platform committee which is hammering this out over time, though as we are a coalition of diverse individuals, this has not been fast or easy, as we prefer a sizable majority in our party before passing a platform proposal, feel free to join to get a better idea of our ideas outside the core!
34679 5y ago
Don't forget scientific knowledge. https://sci-hub.se/ https://sci-hub.se/
- Radiojoe 5y ago
  I <3 Sci hub
pharmakom 5y ago
if their attempts are "failing" why a pirate party?
noduerme 5y ago
I think point 5 - standing for individual rights over corporate rights - should be point one.
zozbot234 5y ago
Their foremost goal should be to launch across-the-board primary challenges against all the congress-critters who have either endorsed or voted for IP-maximalist legislation in the past. This is how the Tea Party got its start, and now they rule the GOP. It works.

nomorecommas 5y ago

dang 5y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments? It's not what this site is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29943518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29943518.
- nomorecommas 5y ago
  I'm okay with a ban if you don't want me here.
  - dang 5y ago
    I'd rather persuade you to use HN as intended!
    - nomorecommas 5y ago

jevoten 5y ago

> Platform: Putting People Before Corporations [..] Opening up Government [i.e. transparency] Every party makes similar promises. Instead, lead with what makes you different - your focus on IP law and digital rights. Perhaps even emphasize your flexibility or neutrality on other issues, so that your voting base isn't decimated by your positions on wedge issues.

brightly-salty 5y ago
I wouldn't call putting people before corporations and opening up government wedge issues; they're right in line with the Pirate Wheel[0] which leads to all pirate politics' positions on issues. I think these are excellent examples of what the US Pirate Party should focus on. [0]: https://falkvinge.net/pirate-wheel/ https://falkvinge.net/pirate-wheel/
- jevoten 5y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply those were wedge issues. I agree they're in line with pirate party ideals, but they're also in-line with the (stated) ideals of nearly every other party. Featuring them so prominently is like a restaurant advertising that they prepare meals using, among others, water and heat.
  - brightly-salty 5y ago
    Really? I could see the other third parties like Green Party, American Solidarity Party, Libertarian Party, etc. having those issues on their platform. But Republicans and Democrats have shown time and time again that they value corporations over people and want the government to be more closed. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though
    - jevoten 5y ago
      You misunderstand me. That they don't practice those ideals doesn't stop them from including them in their party platforms. Parties can distinguish themselves in two ways: with promises, and with actions. Until they gain power, the pirate party can only distinguish itself with promises. And it can't do so if it promises the same things as every other party.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dane-pgp 5y ago

> Do you have a position on abortion, gun control, or gay marriage? How about the radical position of letting each state decide for itself? They could even have the party in each state decide its own position, rather than enforcing a one-size-fits-all policy centrally. Of course it's nice to think that there is one "right" answer to all those questions, and that the world would be better if we could just use the law to force other people to go along with what we want, but I think recent history has shown that just makes politics more dysfunctional and leaves everyone unhappy.

mfcl 5y ago
I would like to know why this is down voted.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Probably because civil liberties shouldn't end at state lines.
  - dane-pgp 5y ago
    If only we could all agree what counts as a civil liberty (and who is entitled to them).
    - evrydayhustling 5y ago
      Whichever liberties you prefer, what makes a state line a better boundary than a federal one for choosing a policy?
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        What makes a federal/national one better than an international one, or an individual one, for that matter? I admit, it's not an easy question, and my suggestion isn't guaranteed to work, but if there is complete deadlock and extreme polarization (potentially leading to violent conflict) at the national level, it's at least plausible that delegating some of those policies to smaller, more politically homogeneous, units might reduce the tensions, and make it easier for people to vote with their feet if they are unhappy with the rules they live under.

mjevans 5y ago

The choose your state dropdown is lazy-populated, so the last half (everything after New Hampshire) fails to load under my default browsing configuration. A list of 50 states and some US territories should just be statically included.

quickthrower2 5y ago
Oh yeah its broken on iOS safari in that the later states are all “state”
Radiojoe 5y ago
Yeah, admittedly, our site is in a bit of disrepair right now, but we are trying to get up to snuff over time

bhhaskin 5y ago

Sorry, is this some kind of joke? If not, yikes. The site seems broken or disorganized. Nothing on who supposedly runs the party. One of there last posts is about the Patriot Act which isn't really a thing anymore.

brightly-salty 5y ago
The Patriot Act is still alive and well, it's simply dropped out of the public imagination. It's still harming people through excessive surveillance and the lack of privacy, which is one of the reasons we would work to repeal it if we were to gain power nationally.

TulliusCicero 5y ago

My understanding is that when pirate parties actually got some amount of power (by getting into the legislature) in other countries, things got weird, by nature of them having to establish policy positions on lots of stuff other than IP law. Like suddenly you need a position on green energy and foreign interventions and public teacher salaries and zoning and all the other things a regular party is gonna have to vote on. And this conflicted with how they got popularity and power, which was by being largely single issue.

zajio1am 5y ago
> And this conflicted with how they got popularity and power, which was by being largely single issue In Czechia (where a pirate party is currently a part of the government) it was IMHO quite the reverse - the Czech Pirate Party mostly gained popularity by accenting ordinary center-liberal political themes.
- cuddlybacon 5y ago
  It's hard to gain too much insight from Wikipedia, but it looks like it fills a niche that was empty. The Pirate Party of Canada used to be quite active on r/CanadaPolitics. Once they fleshed out their platform they ended up overlapping heavily with the NDP and Greens (particularly the Greens). I think many Pirate Parties have fallen into similar traps when they fleshed out their platform.
  - zajio1am 5y ago
    > It's hard to gain too much insight from Wikipedia, but it looks like it fills a niche that was empty. Yes, pretty much. There are Greens in Czechia but they are more left-progressive (compared to center-liberal pirates) and they are unacceptable for many because of their anti-nuclear position.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  ... and put the ideas about IP reform on the back burner, to my dismay.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago

> Do you have a position on abortion, gun control, or gay marriage? > Right now we are working on developing more comprehensive policies. > Are you left-wing or right-wing? > We think “left-wing” and “right-wing” aren’t very useful ways of seeing the world Although I generally agree, but man this gonna be wild...

betwixthewires 5y ago

I'm a fan of the party. For a good idea of what sort of ideas this spawns from, check out the founder's blog https://falkvinge.net/ https://falkvinge.net/ Basically imagine libertarians with a strong drive to consider practical matters over ideology. Individual liberties, but drop the ideology and do what works for people, and what the people want as a whole.

dabinat 5y ago

Not sure I agree with the abolition of patents. If it takes you a decade or more to invent something and then someone else can immediately copy and sell it, what incentive do you have to do all that work? I do agree that patents/copyright need reform and a reduced patent period could be beneficial, but I think complete abolition would backfire.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago
You're forgetting about the Overton window. If what you really want is e.g. abolition of software patents, what you want to do is to start off demanding abolition of all patents and then compromise at abolition of software patents. That's what the other side does.
squarefoot 5y ago
Patents, just like capitalism, aren't bad by themselves, but if left in the hands of powerful people/entities who can abuse and extend them at will for profits they become dangerous and cancerous, just like capitalism. The solution is probably in some form of strict control that prevents their abuse; very hard to realize if those abusing patents are the same people who dictate rules, or very close to them.
betwixthewires 5y ago
Look at how much open source has revolutionized the software industry. It teaches us a few lessons. First, that people invent for the joy of it regardless. And second, that innovation happens faster when unencumbered. Another good example is penicillin. Imagine where we would be with bacterial infections today without it entering the public domain from day 1. I understand the desire to own your work, and immediately arriving at the conclusion that patents are morally or ethically right, but fundamentally when you release some piece of information into the world, it is for all practical purposes no longer yours. Patents are an artificial protection for something that simply isn't true in practice, and it doesn't appear that it increases innovation at all, if your focus is the practical side of things.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gnopgnip 5y ago

What about compulsory licensing for music being expanded to cover tv and movies?

everyone 5y ago

I hate the pirate party name. Also the name of the pirate bay. "Piracy" was a term greedy corporations used PR to apply to sharing. Like sharing tapes and filesharing. They will say they took the term and made it their own but imo its still a victory for the PR fuckers.

Radiojoe 5y ago
Honestly, I see where you're coming from, but personally I think the connotation behind "pirates" (Treasure Island > Pirates of the Caribbean) has changed enough that the entire name has been flipped on its head, making it more of a virtue than a crutch, you know what I mean?

bb88 5y ago

What's their stance on web3? Cuz I'm against it.

flimflamm 5y ago

Finnish pirate party https://www.piraattipuolue.fi/ https://www.piraattipuolue.fi/

Thorentis 5y ago

Why would copyright last for 14 years, but then patents wouldn't exist? It makes perfect sense for inventors to have a short monopoly on their creations. Patent law should certainly be reformed so that patents need to be more specific, limited in scope, and so on.

galaxyLogic 5y ago

It is a good idea that people should get more active in politics but think about this statement from their web-site: "What is your goal? Our primary goal is to get elected into office. We believe in political change from the inside." The goal of these "pirates" is stated very clearly: To get power. Not to chance the society in a particular way or direction, but to get power to themselves (who else?). To get elected. Then what? Oh we'll think about that later but our current goal is to get elected.

labster 5y ago
So… no different from any other political party, then.

galaxyLogic 5y ago

I don't think it's a bad idea to say "We are neither left nor right", since "left" and "right" are not very clearly defined concepts, and most people have chosen their side on that dimension already . A better question for the FAQ would be: Are you pro-democracy, or pro-autocracy? How do you plan to promote your choice of democracy, or autocracy, in practice?

_of 5y ago
> A better question for the FAQ would be: Are you pro-democracy, or pro-autocracy? Or technocracy?
- cdot2 5y ago
  Thats just a form of autocracy
Gentil 5y ago
This should be the last thought. People should be taught tolerance and be patient about ideas and thoughts that are against yours. The world is not black and white and this left and right thought process which is extremely binary is hurting us all in the long run. Just look at how politicians went about things in the olden times. Even when they disagreed on things, they were far far better than just raging against each other like they are doing now!
- malloryerik 5y ago
  "It should be the last thought" may be acceptable when you're figuring out what you believe in, but surely not when you're running for office or forming a political organization.
  - Gentil 5y ago
    I would like to respectfully disagree. There are centre, centre-right and centre-left parties in Europe. If am not mistaken, Angela Merkel's party is centre-right. But even if it isn't, there are other types of parties than just Left and Right. Right and Left which are just two sides is way too narrow view of the world.

birdyrooster 5y ago

"We’re not driven by ideology, we just aim to do what works." So you are pragmatists?

einpoklum 5y ago

The USA is notorious - especially in recent decades - for discouraging parties other than the two large corporate-influenced ones (the Republican and Democratic parties): You have barriers to listing on the ballot; the state financing primaries of the two large parties; limited public funding, vs. lax regulation and effectively little limitation on commercial/corporate funding, for election campaigns; strong affiliation of the main media outlets with one or the other large parties; and not last and certainly not least: Many elections in the US are "first-past-the-post", with no proportional representation, which also tends to favor the largest parties. For this reason, the strategy of pirate parties in other world states - gaining a few parliamentary seats on a limited-focus platform (or centrism/third-way'ism + "pirate" principles) - is essentially invalid in the US. It is my opinion that this is "copycat politics"; and while I certainly support legalized file sharing, better privacy rights, limitation of intellectual property etc. - I believe this initiative would be better served either by forming a "third party coalition" with other movements/parties (e.g. Greens, Libertarians, People's Party if they actually start running people), or, and it pains me to say this, form caucuses within the one or both of the large parties. And I say this with the utmost respect for your efforts. --- PS - "No safe harbor for the enemies of liberty" <- bad choice of slogan, it reminds people of how the US drone-bombs people to death all over the world.

getcrunk 5y ago

This is gonna sound super random but one thing you can add to the political positions is prison reform(for profit, quotas, in jail cus can't post bail for non violent crimes) and fair sentencing. It's related cus pirates are subject to unfair penalties and if jail, our jails are pure evil

brightly-salty 5y ago
Yes, that's on our docket to add to the platform because many of us feel strongly on the topic. Thanks for bringing it up, you should join our platform comittee on the Discord![0] [0]: https://discord.gg/MrdnPxzrf2 https://discord.gg/MrdnPxzrf2

leashless 5y ago

I did a little work on Pirate Party politics in the UK about 10 years ago. One (unfortunately unsuccessful) approach we tried was to get Pirates to write short manifestos about what Pirate Politics really were. Here is one: https://web.archive.org/web/20140906172617/https://www.wired.com/2009/10/and-yet-another-pirate-manifesto/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140906172617/https://www.wired... (that one is mine)

TulliusCicero 5y ago

> Currently pharmaceutical companies spend only 15% of their revenue on new drug research. The remaining 85% is spent on activities such as marketing and profit taking. [Citation needed] I'd like to see a budget breakdown of what these companies spend on research, manufacturing, marketing, etc. At a glance, from looking at CBO pages, it looks like average R&D spend is actually more like in the 18-20% range, and that this isn't unusual for industries, which makes sense since they have other costs beyond R&D.

speedcoder 5y ago
Gee. How about a license to be able to live? Isn't that where it is at?

malloryerik 5y ago

With all of the deadly important issues in the US and the world today these folks have locked their compass on "the legalization of sharing movies, music and other art online"? Is this not satire? Perhaps these "pirates" should watch some illegally downloaded copies of "Don't Look Up." And their wisdom should be so plain to see that we trust them to come up with good decisions later for small details like the world outside of file sharing? "Aye, matey! I'll have me platforme on global warmin' just after I finishe a-pirate-watchin' this last season of 'ye Witcher!' and several other crucial arts, perhaps a-playin' some cracked games in which I'll learn about what's called the economies." I'm not trying to deny that intellectual property issues can be important, even extremely so. It's argued that Germany's rise was related to a lack of copyright[1], and we can think of patents on medicine and many other areas where copyright is crucial, even foundational. But please... [1] https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-law-the-real-reason-for-germany-s-industrial-expansion-a-710976.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/no-copyright-...

zozbot234 5y ago
> With all of the deadly important issues in the US and the world today Thanks, that was a perfect example of whataboutism. Why do you assume that IPR law is not an "important issue"? It's certainly important wrt. economic development, as you point out that Germany has benefited in the past from having looser IP restrictions. And a stronger economy helps us deal with all kinds of other issues, including climate change.
speedcoder 5y ago
So what is the inception of ownership?
- malloryerik 5y ago
  You mean on what basis do we justify ownership and property? As far as I can see there's no strong intrinsic justification for private property, but rather it's subordinate to other values like justice and well-being. History is filled with various approaches to property, and at least in my point of view I have to consider it as something decided by politics and culture. Btw that doesn't mean that because you might disagree with your society's approach to property that it's morally defensible to steal, etc.

cuddlybacon 5y ago

> We think “left-wing” and “right-wing” aren’t very useful ways of seeing the world, and that they make a lot of people falsely believe that they disagree with each other. We’re not driven by ideology, we just aim to do what works. I don't think that great way of describing political positions, but they are at least _a_ way of describing political positions. If they are going to reject the terms, I'd prefer they at least answer the question in a better way instead of rejecting it. But... I do not think left and right trick people into falsely believing that they disagree with each other. Instead I see them as an acknowledgement that political positions tend to cluster. Add in an election system that tends towards two party rule, and left and right wing sorta makes sense. Everyone is driven by ideology. I think those that say they are above ideology don't really get why different ideologies are different. People's political positions are an expression of their core values. There have been a few books I've read that make the case for this. I think The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt does it best. One thing he discusses in that book is an ideology can represent a mix of values or be an expression of a single value. One bit of research he showed had people doing a test where they were told to answer as a person from a different ideology. He found those who belonged to single-value ideologies did worse. In particular it could be seen that these participants assumed people of other ideologies believed in the same one value but where just worse at achieving it. I bring this up, because I think it is going on here. For left and right to falsely believe they disagree with each other, they would have to be trying to achieve the same goal. The same values. I think the Party says this because they want this to be inclusive of people from other ideologies, and I think they earnestly want to achieve that. But I think that thinking about it this way will prevent them from being successful. With this mindset, I think they are most likely to end up with whichever ideology is biggest becoming absolutely dominate. Similar to what happened with Occupy Wall Street. I think they'd get better success on this goal if they learned why different ideologies are different, what the different values they are aiming for are, why the core Pirate Party positions align with those different sets of values, and for other issues try to pick positions that best serve multiple sets of values.

mark_l_watson 5y ago

Great, I am not down at all with our current two party system where both parties are controlled by Wall Street and other elites’ interests. Elites make lots of money killing people, the military industrial complex is the mother of all super lobbyists. After being a life long liberal Democrat who has donated a lot to people like Bernie and Tulsi Gabbard, last year I decided I that for my personal reasons I had to be in a political party that was clearly anti-war unless our country was directly attacked. I decided that the Green Party was too small so I ended up joining the Libertarian Party, some things I like and some I don’t, but clearly anti-war.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

I'm surprised there doesn't seem to be a more concrete position on things like gerrymandering and alternatives to FPtP voting schemes. Given the party's core value of government openness and greater citizen voice in government, it seems very odd to have only vagaries.

gk1256 5y ago

Liberty is not anarchism.

speedcoder 5y ago

Pirates actually helped in the Revolutionary War: https://www.historynet.com/pirates-of-the-revolution.htm https://www.historynet.com/pirates-of-the-revolution.htm . Many pirates considered themselves free and held that legitimate comity between 2 people can exist without 3rd party control such as the Crown.