10 ms·

Counterfeit KN95 respirators

122 points by mortenjorck 5y ago

fmajid 5y ago
KN95 is a Chinese certification. Given their cavalier culture of chabuduo, I’m surprised the reject rate isn’t higher. I only buy masks made in the EU, US, Canada, Japan or Korea for this reason.
satya71 5y ago
This is true and glad that CDC pointed it out. I guess an even bigger percentage of "N95" and "KN95" masks in India are fake.
BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
I wonder what percentage of those were "Sold by Amazon.com"
- rdtwo 5y ago
  Yeah don’t buy off amazon folks.
- 908087 5y ago
  Most of them, I would imagine. I've ordered KN95 masks from Amazon twice because I couldn't find them elsewhere and needed them for travel. The first time, the masks I received looked nothing like the masks advertised, and felt like they were made of tissue paper. The most recent time, the masks I received had clearly been opened before and poorly re-sealed into plastic bags.
  - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
    You're shadowbanned. I didn't look far enough into your past to see why, but you might want to email the mods and ask forgiveness.
    - 908087 5y ago
    - LordDragonfang 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, how did you know they were shadowbanned? The comment appears fine for me.
      - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
        You can tell by looking at their comment history with showdead enabled.
      - comex 5y ago
        Their post would have been labeled [dead] and only visible to users who have the showdead option enabled. It’s no longer dead, so BugsJustFindMe or someone else probably hit the “vouch” link on it.
JadeNB 5y ago
Any medical scam is despicable, but, probably just because I'm personally affected by these, they strike me as particularly loathsome.
hooo 5y ago
This is why when I lived in Korea we'd only buy KF94 made in Korea. KF94 made in China were also usually counterfit. It is crazy to me how everyone buys "KN95" in the US.
- ianai 5y ago
  Is there a good way to tell? Like at home.
  - orangepurple 5y ago
    Wild speculation but it might be possible if you had a calibrated hyperspectral camera, calibrated light source at a known distance and luminous flux level, and a database of known good masks. I mean the equipment "fits" "at home" (lol) I wonder if its possible to burn masks and analyze the spectrum of the light emitted by the burning masks. Might need a hyperspectral camera for that and it might not yield any useful information.
    - drjasonharrison 5y ago
      Knowing that the material is polyethylene doesn't tell you the mesh density or electrostatic charge.
  - drjasonharrison 5y ago
    Using a PM2.5 detector, a vacuum and a source of particles ( burning incense). You could probably rig. Something up. But without the right equipment you'd be guessing if your set up was measuring the correct thing.
- dustintrex 5y ago
  I hate to break this to you, but Chinese manufacturers can and do fake the "Made in X" labels as well.
cmckn 5y ago
It’s been really strange buying masks for the last couple years. I’ve been able to buy a brand I recognize (3M) from a retailer I trust (Home Depot) one time. Every other purchase has been a no-name supplier on Amazon or at a store. I eventually switched to just surgical masks from Costco, because I was never confident with the KN95’s I had. I would have thought I could walk into Target and buy some from a brand like J&J by now. I heard about Project N95 today, which seems legit: https://www.projectn95.org/ https://www.projectn95.org/
- tdeck 5y ago
  I typically buy Healmade KF94 masks. I believe there are counterfeits of those as well, but the Korean manufacturers seem to have more genuine capacity.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    The major brands of masks are 3M, Kimtech / Kimberly Clark, Moldex... among many many others. USA has plenty of masks at the $1/mask price point with full N95 rating. There are also a ton of small companies / startups who started manufacturing N95 masks seeing the opportunity for the pandemic. The main benefit of N95 is a strap that wraps all the way around the head (N95 American standard is higher quality and costs a bit more because of this strap). KN94 or whatever the Korean standard is has only ear-loops, so your ears get quite tired from all the stress over time.
    - twelve40 5y ago
      So if there is a 3M N95 mask on Amazon, how can you even check that it's not a fake one? Only shop from 3M? Well they are perpetually sold out. Next up (i did a quick search), are 3M N95 masks "Sold by Promax America". I've never heard of Promax America (they could be the most legit in the world), but how can I tell they don't sell fake 3M's?
keeganjw 5y ago
Two years into the pandemic, I've wondered why Amazon still allows counterfeit KN95 to be sold all over their site. It's really hard to verify that the masks you're buying actually have the rating they claim unless you buy from a trusted vendor that gets their masks directly from known good suppliers, sites like projectn95.org.
- khuey 5y ago
  Amazon has had a big counterfeit problem for years. And they commingle their inventory so that there's no way for a customer to even buy from a "reputable" seller. I don't think anything short of regulator cracking down hard is going to make them care.
  - TaylorAlexander 5y ago
    I can only imagine they actually like the counterfeit products as they must represent a fair portion of their sales. If they didn’t like them I feel they could come up with a supply chain tracing system for reputable sellers. The problem has existed for so long I don’t believe they’re trying to stop it.
- nrdgrrrl 5y ago
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Amazon’s a flea market, and flea markets operate so cheaply by neither vetting sellers, nor inspecting goods, nor taking any responsibility for sales outcomes. Amazon will do everything in its power to avoid those duties because their retail profit model is to dodge human responsibilities such as those for labor savings. Buying from a “fulfilled by Amazon” trusted vendor won’t necessarily help either, because Amazon also bins all products with a given UPC into a single bucket, no matter who the seller is.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    On the upside, Amazon is normally pretty happy to accept returns. They have set the bar so high in how easy it is to return just about everything.
npunt 5y ago
This is both a high enough number and an important enough issue that it feels like Amazon should just outright prohibit the sale of KN95s, or that regulations should fall on Amazon to police it. I'm sure other stores that have third party marketplaces like Walmart and Home Depot, or sites like eBay also contribute to this issue, but we all know it's likely mostly an Amazon problem.
- fabianhjr 5y ago
  > Amazon should just outright prohibit the sale of KN95s Amazon allows and profits from counterfeits in a lot of products, not just KN95s. Amazon should be held liable for not taking due care in ensuring personal protection equipment is not up to the certifications they sell them as.
buttholesurfer 5y ago
[dead]
stevehind 5y ago
Great illustration of the US’ low state capacity. Whether that’s borne of lack or will or lack of ability starts to not matter at some point…
geofft 5y ago
FYI Grainger has N95s (not KN95s) in stock, is unlikely to have the systemic counterfeiting problems Amazon does, and in my experience delivers quickly: https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/respiratory-protection/disposable-respirators-masks/general-purpose-disposable-respirators-dust-masks?attrs=Exhalation+Valve%7CNo&filters=attrs,shopItemsBy&shopItemsBy=In+Stock+Now&gwwRemoveElement=true https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/respiratory-protect... Price vary, but they run about $2 a mask give or take a bit. You can generally reuse them for a while, assuming you don't work in a hospital - the usual reason to dispose of them is if pathogens are on them, but if you're only using it for protection against covid, the virus dies quickly when outside a host. I don't go out a whole lot because I work from home so I usually use one mask for at least a week, often several weeks. If you're going out frequently, I've seen a recommendation to rotate through a couple of active masks, giving the virus a few days to die off.
- prpl 5y ago
  I bought 3M Aura masks at home depot today in Bay Area and there was a ton of them.
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  I thought hitting the N95 spec relied on static charges on the non-woven fibers which are otherwise too coarse. Are they more effective than cloth even after that dissipates (within a day)?
  - geofft 5y ago
    Interesting, I did not know this. I'm now curious! https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02550-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02550-8 is a brief Nature post from Peter Tsai, who invented this electrostatic filter. In it he says that the charge are "permanent," and adds: > They wanted to sterilize the masks for reuse without damaging them or destroying the electrostatic charge. I knew that heat would not alter the charge, but that alcohol would erase it. The N95DECON project says that masks can be reused if stored at room temperature and do not lose efficiency: https://www.n95decon.org/publications#time https://www.n95decon.org/publications#time I see some studies that find that various decontamination methods (high heat, various disinfectants) can cause the charge to dissipate, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ - but I'm not advocating doing any of those, I'm just advocating leaving it hanging on a hook by your door when you get home. And, interestingly, those studies show that while filtration may drop below 95%, it's still pretty high, so I think that yes, a discharged N95 is still more effective than a cloth mask. But it'd be good to find a direct study. I'm having trouble finding a source that says the filtration performance drops after a day. I did find something that says that the N95 standard requires it must keep working for at least 24 hours, but that's the other direction. (And, anecdotally... the masks I ordered are shipped stacked together, not individually wrapped, in a cardboard box. They've presumably been in the box for a while at the warehouse. While it's true that cardboard is an insulator, so is air, and I'm not sure that the mask hanging by my door is losing charge any faster than the mask sitting in the box.) One thing that does seem to be true is that getting the mask wet can cause the charge to dissipate. If I'm wearing my mask in humid conditions and biking (I usually leave my mask on if I'm stopping frequently), I'll notice that it gets damp, and I do change it when that happens. If your home is extraordinarily humid, maybe put your mask in a brown paper bag or something.
baskethead 5y ago
I only buy N95 masks with valves from 3M. The CDC approved N95 respirators with valves in spring 2021 as being safe for others. 3M masks are made in the USA. I have 500 right now and plan on keeping them even after the pandemic. Just in case.
- orangepurple 5y ago
  I hope you keep them in a temperature and humidity controlled environment or you will get biological growth on them in a hurry
  - drjasonharrison 5y ago
    They are usually sealed in plastic bags...
- ghshephard 5y ago
  But those masks with respirator valves need surgical tape over the valves to provide any type of source protection (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2021107 https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf?id...) - which seems like a pain to me. I'd rather just use a breathable N95.
  - baskethead 5y ago
    You read that report wrong. That report states that even without anything, an N95 mask will give better protection that simple wearing a medical mask, like what most people are approved to wear right now. So an N95 mask with exhalation valve is better than anything, including medical mask, except for a completely sealed N95 mask. But since a completely sealed N95 mask isn't the standard we need to reach, we only need to reach the level of medical mask which gives more than enough protection, a valved respirator is safe. That's exactly what the report states.
    - ghshephard 5y ago
      I've always considered surgical masks to be partially pandemic theater, particularly once we discovered how aerosol driven SARS-CoV-2 is. Great for preventing the exhalation of fomites, but not particularly guaranteed at anything airborne, such as Omicron. So much air moves around the edges - There is a reason why medical professionals don't rely on unbraced Surgical Masks for personal protection in an airborne respiratory ward. My guess, based on what we know about low-micron aerosol transmission, that anybody walking around with a valved respirator/surgical mask and infected with Omicron, is potentially infecting anyone unmasked around them. But - with that said, I did learn from you that valved respirators aren't horrible - but I should look at someone wearing one in the same way I would look at someone with a surgical mask. I'm also dubious as to whether N95 masks are doing as much as people think they are - breathability is key factor that needs to be considered - unless all of your inhalation and exhalation is passing through the mask, once again it's not doing/protecting what you think it is, despite how tightly fit it is, and the fact that on a NaCl 3 micron bench test it's rated at 99.9x% effective.
symlinkk 5y ago
This is the most powerful and wealthy country in the world and we can’t even supply our citizens with working masks 2 years into a pandemic?
- Kranar 5y ago
  The CDC's report is not appropriate to make this conclusion. Following through on how the CDC came to this figure they categorize all masks from certain manufacturers whose products have been counterfeited as all being counterfeit. If company X makes legitimate N95 masks, but there is a company Y that makes counterfeit X masks, then all of X's masks are considered counterfeit. That's fine if you want to play it safe, but it's not fine if you're making a judgement about genuine capacity or supply.
throwoutway 5y ago
The sad state of affairs. So many ways to do it wrong. Even weirder is the CDC site here says under the "masks that meet standards" header, "Do NOT wear" them if you have facial hair. Seriously. If you don't believe me https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017...
- veonik 5y ago
  If you have facial hair, you can't expect a good seal around the edges of the mask, so there will be some air getting to you (and out of you) that is unfiltered.
- gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
  When I raised facial hair as an issue I was laughed at. I knew it was a problem because I had a full beard and could feel my breath escape. I guess now there should be shave mandates since double shot with a booster and a beard means distributing death.
  - jdavis703 5y ago
    If you have a large beard, you’re basically unmasked. I think the CDC is right. If you’re bearded, it’s just hygiene theater. I’m not sure what can be done, mandating shaving would run against Jewish and Islamic beliefs, so any such mandate would probably be struck down quickly.
    - bradknowles 5y ago
      You can trim the beards down to get good fit. They can be as long as 10mm and not have any material impact on the fit of the mask, so long as you use the right mask-fitting process. They may be harder to fit on someone with a 10mm beard, but it’s still do-able. Same with CPAP and SCUBA masks.
    - cute_boi 5y ago
      Yea its so sad that many old beliefs will render the efforts like masks useless (to some extent but I still think it is beneficial over no masks.). :(
petilon 5y ago
These honeywell masks are pretty good: https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Layer-Replaceable-Inserts-RWS-50111/dp/B08KWQSTZJ/ref=sr_1_4?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Layer-Replaceable-Inserts-R... Easier to get than 3M, a respected brand like 3M, more comfortable than N95.
- caditinpiscinam 5y ago
  3M isn't all that respectable: > A lawsuit filed by Minnesota against 3M, the company that first developed and sold PFOS and PFOA, the two best-known PFAS compounds, has revealed that the company knew that these chemicals were accumulating in people’s blood for more than 40 years. 3M researchers documented the chemicals in fish, just as the Michigan scientist did, but they did so back in the 1970s. That same decade, 3M scientists realized that the compounds they produced were toxic. The company even had evidence back then of the compounds’ effects on the immune system, studies of which are just now driving the lower levels put forward by the ATSDR, as well as several states and the European Union. https://theintercept.com/2018/07/31/3m-pfas-minnesota-pfoa-pfos/ https://theintercept.com/2018/07/31/3m-pfas-minnesota-pfoa-p...
antimatter15 5y ago
I feel like the emphasis on the percentage of KN95s which are counterfeit is suspect in the context of this page, since even a counterfeit respirator is likely to perform an order of magnitude better than any cloth mask or surgical mask at preventing spread of viral particles.
bumbledraven 5y ago
ConsumerLab.com [1] has been doing independent tests of health products for over 20 years. Like Consumer Reports, they take no advertising money and are supported by subscriptions. They do things like measure which vitamin brands actually contain the specified amount of vitamin, and they test for toxins in lots of things, including dried seaweed snacks (!). The intro to ConsumerLab's review of KN95 masks [2] says: > We reviewed many KN95 masks sold on Amazon but found only one currently on the FDA's list of authorized respirators that we recommend, and we found two that should be avoided. We also found an FDA-authorized KN95 through an online direct distributor in the U.S. (EDIT: details are available to subscribers, but the U.S. distributor they recommend is https://bonafidemasks.com https://bonafidemasks.com, which was also recommended in a sibling a comment on this page by codemac.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConsumerLab.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConsumerLab.com [2] https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/how-to-make-covid-19-mask-at-home-as-effective-as-n95/make-a-mask/#kn95 https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/how-to-make-covid-19-mas...
- Redoubts 5y ago
  > We reviewed many KN95 masks sold on Amazon but found only one currently on the FDA's list of authorized respirators that we recommend, and we found two that should be avoided. We also found an FDA-authorized KN95 through an online direct distributor in the U.S. Sign in to get the details Care to share?
ghshephard 5y ago
3M 8210 N95 masks dropped to $0.89/each about 5 months ago and haven't budged since then. Presumably they could now ramp up production if required. I often wonder why Amazon doesn't just presume guilty unless proven innocent when it comes to life-safety equipment like face respirators during a pandemic once supply chains of known-good equipment are available. How difficult would it be for this single product line to be validated by someone at Amazon?
johne20 5y ago
I find masknerd on youtube an excellent source of information. https://www.youtube.com/user/coll0412 https://www.youtube.com/user/coll0412
goodside 5y ago
This is one (of many) reasons I always buy NIOSH N95’s. The most expensive part of a good N95 is, surprisingly, the straps — good straps that expand all the way around the head without snagging your hair are expensive, so you can be reasonably sure that any N95 that uses them is not counterfeit, as the material properties can’t be faked cheaply. The expense of straps is why 3M makes some N95 models in pairs that differ only in whether they have hair-snagging straps, e.g. 8210 vs 8210+. If you really want to be sure, go with Moldex. Moldex N95 masks are made (in the USA) with a unique process where the N95 filter is covered in a hard plastic mesh. Their AirWave line in particular is truly superior to any other N95 on the market, because they own a patent on using corrugation in the mask body. You can be sure nobody is counterfeiting these — they’re a niche product for construction workers, not something people flock to for Covid protection. Just be aware they’re clunkier than even a typical N95 because of the plastic casing — “Darth Vader mask” is a term I’ve heard a lot while wearing them.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  I use Kimtech 53358, also US-made and N95. Its a "duck-mask" and seems to be available at $1 each. The Kimtech 53358 has far superior breathability compared to the Moldex 2200. Most importantly, the Kimtech "Duckmask" is foldable, and easily stores inside of an envelope, purse, handback, backpack (etc. etc.) ---------- Moldex 2200 is cheap, solid, and durable. Its straps are a bit tight but provide a superior seal. The Kimtech feels looser and probably isn't quite as good of a seal as the Moldex. Still, the greater comfort and cheaper price from the Kimtech 53358 has made it my N95 mask of choice. Being able to fold the mask and store it away is a huge advantage, it means I can carry 3, 4, 5 Kimtech 53448 with me at all times (in case I sneeze in the mask and want to throw it away). Sneezing inside of a Moldex 2200 is more high-risk, because its unlikely you're carrying a spare. The mask design is just too bulky to seriously carry spares. --------- I do own 3M stock, and 3M masks are also pretty good :-) Maybe I should plug them so that the stock price goes up? Unfortunately, 3M masks seem to be sold out and/or at much higher prices whenever I'm shopping for masks. EDIT: Got the number wrong initially, woops.
  - goodside 5y ago
Gustomaximus 5y ago
Side point: I think dealing with counterfeit goods could be a good way for developed nations to bring back more manufacturing and generally better products. I wonder if a good system would be to beef up quality checks on imported. Make sure things are what they are and made with materials you want for the health of you population as I have little doubt many kids toys, furniture's, building materials and food plastics etc are probably not as safe as you'd want or blatantly containing banned items. I was thinking a good way yo do it would be a combination of 1) importers pay for the inspections rather than the nominal current fee and 2) importers could get a 'grade' kind of like financial ratings. As importers show good practice over time their grade reflects this and less goods are inspected and cost to import go down. This could create real value to certification and if done right it would be something groups strongly protect. It would stop people jumping on trends with dodgy products as new importers would have to pay upfront for inspections and risk losing their goods, which would be a game changer for product quality. I think something like this would have so many benefits in removing counterfeit and healthier products in countries. Also I wonder if it would level the playing field in manufacturing domestically for developed nations, so companies doing the right thing are not disadvantaged so much to those willing to cut corners. Also would probably have a huge flow-on effect to drug importation as I imagine a bunch of this happens with less reputable importers but Im guessing here. Anyway talking from a very non-expert position so likely flawed view... but strongly feel this is something that that needs to be dealt with for counterfeit/health reasons.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > bring back more manufacturing and generally better products. There's no reason there wouldn't be domestic counterfeit goods, and quality has more to do with what people are willing to pay. True, Chinese goods tend to be low quality because they're made in China so they can be as cheap as possible, but Apple also has a lot of production there, they just use reputable vendors.
  - Gustomaximus 5y ago
    Probably not stop counterfeit , but would significantly reduce it having domestic accountability. Much easier to do criminal charges, apply fines to property/factory etc. That recourse for quality largely doesn't exist for most importers and foreign governments to place like china except for the most serious of offences. And with things like Apple (or any big brand), they have incredible buying power + ability to resource high level of QA. That works for powerful companies for sure but once you drop in scale and on more generic goods, that is clearly another story.
codemac 5y ago
I've been buying from https://bonafidemasks.com https://bonafidemasks.com , they sell Guangzhou Powecom and Guangzhou Harley masks, which all do incredibly well (99+) with their KN95's on the CDC website. I highly recommend them.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  Has their order fulfillment been outrageously slow for you? I've bought from then twice (Jan 2021 and Dec 2021) and both times they didn't even ship my order for 2 weeks.
  - codemac 5y ago
    They're extremely busy, as per the new recommendation. I buy 100's at a time though, so I always have plenty of overlap between orders.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    They shipped mine quickly. I ordered a couple hundred masks so possibly they ship larger orders quicker?
  - jerlam 5y ago
    They've always been slow for me. My first order in November 2020, I think it took three weeks from ordering to receipt. The following two orders haven't been quite as bad, but there was a noticeable delay.
- aheckler 5y ago
  > all do incredibly well (99+) with their KN95's on the CDC website Not all, strictly speaking. I see one Powecom mask listed under the "Respirator Assessment Results Considered as Counterfeit and/or Misuse of Company Name" section of the CDC's site [0]. Open the link, scroll down to that heading, click on the "G" tab, then Cmd+F for "Guangzhou Powecom Labor Insurance Supplies" and you'll see it. That said, I suspect it was maybe just a slightly sub-standard batch. The minimum filtration efficiency was still >93%, not anywhere near as bad as some others on that list. I still plan on buying the Powecom KN95s from Bona Fide Masks in the future. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [0] https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSHresults.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSH...
skipwalker 5y ago
https://www.demetech.us/ https://www.demetech.us/ American made. I heard a podcast about them. It might have been Planet Money. They ramped up production at the start of the pandemic, but then could not sell their supply. They were not allowed to advertise on Facebook because PPE was supposed to be reserved for the medical community, but then the medical community wasn’t buying either for budgetary reasons and fear of counterfeits. https://www.wbur.org/npr/984952702/why-are-millions-of-n95-masks-sitting-in-a-factory-without-a-buyer https://www.wbur.org/npr/984952702/why-are-millions-of-n95-m...
alins 5y ago
https://www.armbrustusa.com/ https://www.armbrustusa.com/ American made N95, KN95, and ASTM Level 3 masks. See their mask testing database, click on each and see a video of their test: https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing?mask=-review https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing?mask=-review You can find 20-30% off coupons for them online. I'm very happy with my purchases from them.
john_moscow 5y ago
Could anyone please explain why we don't have commercially viable gas mask-style full-face respirators with replaceable filter cartridges? The problem with the regular masks is that a huge amount of air still goes around them. You can do an experiment - firmly push a KN95 respirator into your face with 4 fingers and try breathing through it. You'll feel more resistance, you'll actually smell the filtering material, you'll see how the mask puffs up when you exhale. You let go and most of these effects go away, as the air is just going between the mask and your face. P.S. I was researching the topic before taking a longish flight, looking to minimize my chance of catching COVID before a tropical vacation to ~0% and was rather astounded that full-face masks, like the gas ones aren't even allowed in the airports. I didn't catch COVID that time, but I wonder how much transmission could we cut off if we offered something like this in places where people are forced to sit together for prolonged time.
- goodside 5y ago
  We do. Masks exactly like the ones you’re describing are widely sold in hardware stores. They’re properly known as elastomeric respirators. They’re clunky, hideous, and they greatly impair communication far more than a disposable N95 or KN95. Nobody wants them for daily use. Also, because they’re almost invariably sold for use in construction and carpentry, not medical settings, they use exhale vents. Some people think this is a big problem, and dismiss these respirators as a class because of it. Respirators without exhale valves, as well as ones with voice diaphragms for speech, are also available for medical use, but these are unusual and AFAIK didn’t exist before Covid.
  - drjasonharrison 5y ago
    However they are great for not fogging glasses.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
Mister_X 5y ago
Here's an interesting mask review site I ran across a couple of days ago, looks legit. https://www.youtube.com/c/ArmbrustUSA/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ArmbrustUSA/videos
runnerup 5y ago
dang: original title is "Types of Masks and Respirators". Only a small box in the middle relates to counterfeit KN95's.
kirbyfan64sos 5y ago
I'd like to mention that there are also two excellent YouTube channels that do mask efficacy testing & reviews: https://youtube.com/channel/UC3fF_rzkmZD0ufN685YE7lg https://youtube.com/channel/UC3fF_rzkmZD0ufN685YE7lg https://youtube.com/channel/UCnxwOf4gYCx1eEh7NVbxcYg https://youtube.com/channel/UCnxwOf4gYCx1eEh7NVbxcYg
divbzero 5y ago
This Show HN [1] from Armbrust earlier in the week provided lab tests of 300+ masks bought from Amazon. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29878971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29878971
dehrmann 5y ago
Amusing to see knockoffs of knockoffs (KN95 is a Chinese standard).
trembonator 5y ago
rasz 5y ago
How about "N95-grade" respirator? https://www.fastcompany.com/90706115/this-high-tech-mask-went-viral-but-then-the-company-had-to-figure-out-how-to-build-it https://www.fastcompany.com/90706115/this-high-tech-mask-wen... "Razer points out that the system has been independently certified with a Bacterial Filtration Efficiency of over 99%, like an N95." https://www.ign.com/articles/razer-project-hazel-rgb-n95-mask-details-release-date https://www.ign.com/articles/razer-project-hazel-rgb-n95-mas... "Razer claims that Project Hazel is the world's smartest mask. It is a reusable N95 respirator" https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22613139/razer-zephyr-n95-rgb-mask-project-hazel https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22613139/razer-zephyr-n95-... "Razer announced today that its lit-like-a-gaming-PC N95 mask" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/review-i-wore-razers-zephyr-n95-mask-for-two-weeks-so-you-dont-have-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/review-i-wore-razers... "I wore Razer’s Zephyr N95 mask" until https://mashable.com/article/razer-zephyr-n95-mask-claim-removal https://mashable.com/article/razer-zephyr-n95-mask-claim-rem... https://www.gamesradar.com/razer-admits-its-masks-arent-n95-grade-after-all/ https://www.gamesradar.com/razer-admits-its-masks-arent-n95-... https://mothership.sg/2022/01/razer-n95-zephyr-mask/ https://mothership.sg/2022/01/razer-n95-zephyr-mask/
- bradknowles 5y ago
  See Naomi Wu’s video at https://youtu.be/nDzhGjbvVGc https://youtu.be/nDzhGjbvVGc

122 points by mortenjorck 5y ago

KN95 is a Chinese certification. Given their cavalier culture of chabuduo, I’m surprised the reject rate isn’t higher. I only buy masks made in the EU, US, Canada, Japan or Korea for this reason.

satya71 5y ago

This is true and glad that CDC pointed it out. I guess an even bigger percentage of "N95" and "KN95" masks in India are fake.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago

I wonder what percentage of those were "Sold by Amazon.com"

rdtwo 5y ago
Yeah don’t buy off amazon folks.
908087 5y ago
Most of them, I would imagine. I've ordered KN95 masks from Amazon twice because I couldn't find them elsewhere and needed them for travel. The first time, the masks I received looked nothing like the masks advertised, and felt like they were made of tissue paper. The most recent time, the masks I received had clearly been opened before and poorly re-sealed into plastic bags.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  You're shadowbanned. I didn't look far enough into your past to see why, but you might want to email the mods and ask forgiveness.
  - 908087 5y ago
  - LordDragonfang 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, how did you know they were shadowbanned? The comment appears fine for me.
    - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
      You can tell by looking at their comment history with showdead enabled.
    - comex 5y ago
      Their post would have been labeled [dead] and only visible to users who have the showdead option enabled. It’s no longer dead, so BugsJustFindMe or someone else probably hit the “vouch” link on it.

JadeNB 5y ago

Any medical scam is despicable, but, probably just because I'm personally affected by these, they strike me as particularly loathsome.

hooo 5y ago

This is why when I lived in Korea we'd only buy KF94 made in Korea. KF94 made in China were also usually counterfit. It is crazy to me how everyone buys "KN95" in the US.

ianai 5y ago
Is there a good way to tell? Like at home.
- orangepurple 5y ago
  Wild speculation but it might be possible if you had a calibrated hyperspectral camera, calibrated light source at a known distance and luminous flux level, and a database of known good masks. I mean the equipment "fits" "at home" (lol) I wonder if its possible to burn masks and analyze the spectrum of the light emitted by the burning masks. Might need a hyperspectral camera for that and it might not yield any useful information.
  - drjasonharrison 5y ago
    Knowing that the material is polyethylene doesn't tell you the mesh density or electrostatic charge.
- drjasonharrison 5y ago
  Using a PM2.5 detector, a vacuum and a source of particles ( burning incense). You could probably rig. Something up. But without the right equipment you'd be guessing if your set up was measuring the correct thing.
dustintrex 5y ago
I hate to break this to you, but Chinese manufacturers can and do fake the "Made in X" labels as well.

cmckn 5y ago

It’s been really strange buying masks for the last couple years. I’ve been able to buy a brand I recognize (3M) from a retailer I trust (Home Depot) one time. Every other purchase has been a no-name supplier on Amazon or at a store. I eventually switched to just surgical masks from Costco, because I was never confident with the KN95’s I had. I would have thought I could walk into Target and buy some from a brand like J&J by now. I heard about Project N95 today, which seems legit: https://www.projectn95.org/ https://www.projectn95.org/

tdeck 5y ago
I typically buy Healmade KF94 masks. I believe there are counterfeits of those as well, but the Korean manufacturers seem to have more genuine capacity.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dragontamer 5y ago
  The major brands of masks are 3M, Kimtech / Kimberly Clark, Moldex... among many many others. USA has plenty of masks at the $1/mask price point with full N95 rating. There are also a ton of small companies / startups who started manufacturing N95 masks seeing the opportunity for the pandemic. The main benefit of N95 is a strap that wraps all the way around the head (N95 American standard is higher quality and costs a bit more because of this strap). KN94 or whatever the Korean standard is has only ear-loops, so your ears get quite tired from all the stress over time.
  - twelve40 5y ago
    So if there is a 3M N95 mask on Amazon, how can you even check that it's not a fake one? Only shop from 3M? Well they are perpetually sold out. Next up (i did a quick search), are 3M N95 masks "Sold by Promax America". I've never heard of Promax America (they could be the most legit in the world), but how can I tell they don't sell fake 3M's?

keeganjw 5y ago

Two years into the pandemic, I've wondered why Amazon still allows counterfeit KN95 to be sold all over their site. It's really hard to verify that the masks you're buying actually have the rating they claim unless you buy from a trusted vendor that gets their masks directly from known good suppliers, sites like projectn95.org.

khuey 5y ago
Amazon has had a big counterfeit problem for years. And they commingle their inventory so that there's no way for a customer to even buy from a "reputable" seller. I don't think anything short of regulator cracking down hard is going to make them care.
- TaylorAlexander 5y ago
  I can only imagine they actually like the counterfeit products as they must represent a fair portion of their sales. If they didn’t like them I feel they could come up with a supply chain tracing system for reputable sellers. The problem has existed for so long I don’t believe they’re trying to stop it.
nrdgrrrl 5y ago
floatingatoll 5y ago
Amazon’s a flea market, and flea markets operate so cheaply by neither vetting sellers, nor inspecting goods, nor taking any responsibility for sales outcomes. Amazon will do everything in its power to avoid those duties because their retail profit model is to dodge human responsibilities such as those for labor savings. Buying from a “fulfilled by Amazon” trusted vendor won’t necessarily help either, because Amazon also bins all products with a given UPC into a single bucket, no matter who the seller is.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  On the upside, Amazon is normally pretty happy to accept returns. They have set the bar so high in how easy it is to return just about everything.

npunt 5y ago

This is both a high enough number and an important enough issue that it feels like Amazon should just outright prohibit the sale of KN95s, or that regulations should fall on Amazon to police it. I'm sure other stores that have third party marketplaces like Walmart and Home Depot, or sites like eBay also contribute to this issue, but we all know it's likely mostly an Amazon problem.

fabianhjr 5y ago
> Amazon should just outright prohibit the sale of KN95s Amazon allows and profits from counterfeits in a lot of products, not just KN95s. Amazon should be held liable for not taking due care in ensuring personal protection equipment is not up to the certifications they sell them as.

buttholesurfer 5y ago

[dead]

stevehind 5y ago

Great illustration of the US’ low state capacity. Whether that’s borne of lack or will or lack of ability starts to not matter at some point…

geofft 5y ago

FYI Grainger has N95s (not KN95s) in stock, is unlikely to have the systemic counterfeiting problems Amazon does, and in my experience delivers quickly: https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/respiratory-protection/disposable-respirators-masks/general-purpose-disposable-respirators-dust-masks?attrs=Exhalation+Valve%7CNo&filters=attrs,shopItemsBy&shopItemsBy=In+Stock+Now&gwwRemoveElement=true https://www.grainger.com/category/safety/respiratory-protect... Price vary, but they run about $2 a mask give or take a bit. You can generally reuse them for a while, assuming you don't work in a hospital - the usual reason to dispose of them is if pathogens are on them, but if you're only using it for protection against covid, the virus dies quickly when outside a host. I don't go out a whole lot because I work from home so I usually use one mask for at least a week, often several weeks. If you're going out frequently, I've seen a recommendation to rotate through a couple of active masks, giving the virus a few days to die off.

prpl 5y ago
I bought 3M Aura masks at home depot today in Bay Area and there was a ton of them.
erik_seaberg 5y ago
I thought hitting the N95 spec relied on static charges on the non-woven fibers which are otherwise too coarse. Are they more effective than cloth even after that dissipates (within a day)?
- geofft 5y ago
  Interesting, I did not know this. I'm now curious! https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02550-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02550-8 is a brief Nature post from Peter Tsai, who invented this electrostatic filter. In it he says that the charge are "permanent," and adds: > They wanted to sterilize the masks for reuse without damaging them or destroying the electrostatic charge. I knew that heat would not alter the charge, but that alcohol would erase it. The N95DECON project says that masks can be reused if stored at room temperature and do not lose efficiency: https://www.n95decon.org/publications#time https://www.n95decon.org/publications#time I see some studies that find that various decontamination methods (high heat, various disinfectants) can cause the charge to dissipate, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7724761/ - but I'm not advocating doing any of those, I'm just advocating leaving it hanging on a hook by your door when you get home. And, interestingly, those studies show that while filtration may drop below 95%, it's still pretty high, so I think that yes, a discharged N95 is still more effective than a cloth mask. But it'd be good to find a direct study. I'm having trouble finding a source that says the filtration performance drops after a day. I did find something that says that the N95 standard requires it must keep working for at least 24 hours, but that's the other direction. (And, anecdotally... the masks I ordered are shipped stacked together, not individually wrapped, in a cardboard box. They've presumably been in the box for a while at the warehouse. While it's true that cardboard is an insulator, so is air, and I'm not sure that the mask hanging by my door is losing charge any faster than the mask sitting in the box.) One thing that does seem to be true is that getting the mask wet can cause the charge to dissipate. If I'm wearing my mask in humid conditions and biking (I usually leave my mask on if I'm stopping frequently), I'll notice that it gets damp, and I do change it when that happens. If your home is extraordinarily humid, maybe put your mask in a brown paper bag or something.

baskethead 5y ago

I only buy N95 masks with valves from 3M. The CDC approved N95 respirators with valves in spring 2021 as being safe for others. 3M masks are made in the USA. I have 500 right now and plan on keeping them even after the pandemic. Just in case.

orangepurple 5y ago
I hope you keep them in a temperature and humidity controlled environment or you will get biological growth on them in a hurry
- drjasonharrison 5y ago
  They are usually sealed in plastic bags...
ghshephard 5y ago
But those masks with respirator valves need surgical tape over the valves to provide any type of source protection (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2021107 https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2021-107/pdfs/2021-107.pdf?id...) - which seems like a pain to me. I'd rather just use a breathable N95.
- baskethead 5y ago
  You read that report wrong. That report states that even without anything, an N95 mask will give better protection that simple wearing a medical mask, like what most people are approved to wear right now. So an N95 mask with exhalation valve is better than anything, including medical mask, except for a completely sealed N95 mask. But since a completely sealed N95 mask isn't the standard we need to reach, we only need to reach the level of medical mask which gives more than enough protection, a valved respirator is safe. That's exactly what the report states.
  - ghshephard 5y ago
    I've always considered surgical masks to be partially pandemic theater, particularly once we discovered how aerosol driven SARS-CoV-2 is. Great for preventing the exhalation of fomites, but not particularly guaranteed at anything airborne, such as Omicron. So much air moves around the edges - There is a reason why medical professionals don't rely on unbraced Surgical Masks for personal protection in an airborne respiratory ward. My guess, based on what we know about low-micron aerosol transmission, that anybody walking around with a valved respirator/surgical mask and infected with Omicron, is potentially infecting anyone unmasked around them. But - with that said, I did learn from you that valved respirators aren't horrible - but I should look at someone wearing one in the same way I would look at someone with a surgical mask. I'm also dubious as to whether N95 masks are doing as much as people think they are - breathability is key factor that needs to be considered - unless all of your inhalation and exhalation is passing through the mask, once again it's not doing/protecting what you think it is, despite how tightly fit it is, and the fact that on a NaCl 3 micron bench test it's rated at 99.9x% effective.

symlinkk 5y ago

This is the most powerful and wealthy country in the world and we can’t even supply our citizens with working masks 2 years into a pandemic?

Kranar 5y ago
The CDC's report is not appropriate to make this conclusion. Following through on how the CDC came to this figure they categorize all masks from certain manufacturers whose products have been counterfeited as all being counterfeit. If company X makes legitimate N95 masks, but there is a company Y that makes counterfeit X masks, then all of X's masks are considered counterfeit. That's fine if you want to play it safe, but it's not fine if you're making a judgement about genuine capacity or supply.

throwoutway 5y ago

The sad state of affairs. So many ways to do it wrong. Even weirder is the CDC site here says under the "masks that meet standards" header, "Do NOT wear" them if you have facial hair. Seriously. If you don't believe me https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017...

veonik 5y ago
If you have facial hair, you can't expect a good seal around the edges of the mask, so there will be some air getting to you (and out of you) that is unfiltered.
gadflyinyoureye 5y ago
When I raised facial hair as an issue I was laughed at. I knew it was a problem because I had a full beard and could feel my breath escape. I guess now there should be shave mandates since double shot with a booster and a beard means distributing death.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  If you have a large beard, you’re basically unmasked. I think the CDC is right. If you’re bearded, it’s just hygiene theater. I’m not sure what can be done, mandating shaving would run against Jewish and Islamic beliefs, so any such mandate would probably be struck down quickly.
  - bradknowles 5y ago
    You can trim the beards down to get good fit. They can be as long as 10mm and not have any material impact on the fit of the mask, so long as you use the right mask-fitting process. They may be harder to fit on someone with a 10mm beard, but it’s still do-able. Same with CPAP and SCUBA masks.
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    Yea its so sad that many old beliefs will render the efforts like masks useless (to some extent but I still think it is beneficial over no masks.). :(

petilon 5y ago

These honeywell masks are pretty good: https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Layer-Replaceable-Inserts-RWS-50111/dp/B08KWQSTZJ/ref=sr_1_4?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Layer-Replaceable-Inserts-R... Easier to get than 3M, a respected brand like 3M, more comfortable than N95.

caditinpiscinam 5y ago
3M isn't all that respectable: > A lawsuit filed by Minnesota against 3M, the company that first developed and sold PFOS and PFOA, the two best-known PFAS compounds, has revealed that the company knew that these chemicals were accumulating in people’s blood for more than 40 years. 3M researchers documented the chemicals in fish, just as the Michigan scientist did, but they did so back in the 1970s. That same decade, 3M scientists realized that the compounds they produced were toxic. The company even had evidence back then of the compounds’ effects on the immune system, studies of which are just now driving the lower levels put forward by the ATSDR, as well as several states and the European Union. https://theintercept.com/2018/07/31/3m-pfas-minnesota-pfoa-pfos/ https://theintercept.com/2018/07/31/3m-pfas-minnesota-pfoa-p...

antimatter15 5y ago

I feel like the emphasis on the percentage of KN95s which are counterfeit is suspect in the context of this page, since even a counterfeit respirator is likely to perform an order of magnitude better than any cloth mask or surgical mask at preventing spread of viral particles.

bumbledraven 5y ago

ConsumerLab.com [1] has been doing independent tests of health products for over 20 years. Like Consumer Reports, they take no advertising money and are supported by subscriptions. They do things like measure which vitamin brands actually contain the specified amount of vitamin, and they test for toxins in lots of things, including dried seaweed snacks (!). The intro to ConsumerLab's review of KN95 masks [2] says: > We reviewed many KN95 masks sold on Amazon but found only one currently on the FDA's list of authorized respirators that we recommend, and we found two that should be avoided. We also found an FDA-authorized KN95 through an online direct distributor in the U.S. (EDIT: details are available to subscribers, but the U.S. distributor they recommend is https://bonafidemasks.com https://bonafidemasks.com, which was also recommended in a sibling a comment on this page by codemac.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConsumerLab.com https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConsumerLab.com [2] https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/how-to-make-covid-19-mask-at-home-as-effective-as-n95/make-a-mask/#kn95 https://www.consumerlab.com/answers/how-to-make-covid-19-mas...

Redoubts 5y ago
> We reviewed many KN95 masks sold on Amazon but found only one currently on the FDA's list of authorized respirators that we recommend, and we found two that should be avoided. We also found an FDA-authorized KN95 through an online direct distributor in the U.S. Sign in to get the details Care to share?

ghshephard 5y ago

3M 8210 N95 masks dropped to $0.89/each about 5 months ago and haven't budged since then. Presumably they could now ramp up production if required. I often wonder why Amazon doesn't just presume guilty unless proven innocent when it comes to life-safety equipment like face respirators during a pandemic once supply chains of known-good equipment are available. How difficult would it be for this single product line to be validated by someone at Amazon?

johne20 5y ago

I find masknerd on youtube an excellent source of information. https://www.youtube.com/user/coll0412 https://www.youtube.com/user/coll0412

goodside 5y ago

This is one (of many) reasons I always buy NIOSH N95’s. The most expensive part of a good N95 is, surprisingly, the straps — good straps that expand all the way around the head without snagging your hair are expensive, so you can be reasonably sure that any N95 that uses them is not counterfeit, as the material properties can’t be faked cheaply. The expense of straps is why 3M makes some N95 models in pairs that differ only in whether they have hair-snagging straps, e.g. 8210 vs 8210+. If you really want to be sure, go with Moldex. Moldex N95 masks are made (in the USA) with a unique process where the N95 filter is covered in a hard plastic mesh. Their AirWave line in particular is truly superior to any other N95 on the market, because they own a patent on using corrugation in the mask body. You can be sure nobody is counterfeiting these — they’re a niche product for construction workers, not something people flock to for Covid protection. Just be aware they’re clunkier than even a typical N95 because of the plastic casing — “Darth Vader mask” is a term I’ve heard a lot while wearing them.

dragontamer 5y ago
I use Kimtech 53358, also US-made and N95. Its a "duck-mask" and seems to be available at $1 each. The Kimtech 53358 has far superior breathability compared to the Moldex 2200. Most importantly, the Kimtech "Duckmask" is foldable, and easily stores inside of an envelope, purse, handback, backpack (etc. etc.) ---------- Moldex 2200 is cheap, solid, and durable. Its straps are a bit tight but provide a superior seal. The Kimtech feels looser and probably isn't quite as good of a seal as the Moldex. Still, the greater comfort and cheaper price from the Kimtech 53358 has made it my N95 mask of choice. Being able to fold the mask and store it away is a huge advantage, it means I can carry 3, 4, 5 Kimtech 53448 with me at all times (in case I sneeze in the mask and want to throw it away). Sneezing inside of a Moldex 2200 is more high-risk, because its unlikely you're carrying a spare. The mask design is just too bulky to seriously carry spares. --------- I do own 3M stock, and 3M masks are also pretty good :-) Maybe I should plug them so that the stock price goes up? Unfortunately, 3M masks seem to be sold out and/or at much higher prices whenever I'm shopping for masks. EDIT: Got the number wrong initially, woops.
- goodside 5y ago

Gustomaximus 5y ago

Side point: I think dealing with counterfeit goods could be a good way for developed nations to bring back more manufacturing and generally better products. I wonder if a good system would be to beef up quality checks on imported. Make sure things are what they are and made with materials you want for the health of you population as I have little doubt many kids toys, furniture's, building materials and food plastics etc are probably not as safe as you'd want or blatantly containing banned items. I was thinking a good way yo do it would be a combination of 1) importers pay for the inspections rather than the nominal current fee and 2) importers could get a 'grade' kind of like financial ratings. As importers show good practice over time their grade reflects this and less goods are inspected and cost to import go down. This could create real value to certification and if done right it would be something groups strongly protect. It would stop people jumping on trends with dodgy products as new importers would have to pay upfront for inspections and risk losing their goods, which would be a game changer for product quality. I think something like this would have so many benefits in removing counterfeit and healthier products in countries. Also I wonder if it would level the playing field in manufacturing domestically for developed nations, so companies doing the right thing are not disadvantaged so much to those willing to cut corners. Also would probably have a huge flow-on effect to drug importation as I imagine a bunch of this happens with less reputable importers but Im guessing here. Anyway talking from a very non-expert position so likely flawed view... but strongly feel this is something that that needs to be dealt with for counterfeit/health reasons.

dehrmann 5y ago
> bring back more manufacturing and generally better products. There's no reason there wouldn't be domestic counterfeit goods, and quality has more to do with what people are willing to pay. True, Chinese goods tend to be low quality because they're made in China so they can be as cheap as possible, but Apple also has a lot of production there, they just use reputable vendors.
- Gustomaximus 5y ago
  Probably not stop counterfeit , but would significantly reduce it having domestic accountability. Much easier to do criminal charges, apply fines to property/factory etc. That recourse for quality largely doesn't exist for most importers and foreign governments to place like china except for the most serious of offences. And with things like Apple (or any big brand), they have incredible buying power + ability to resource high level of QA. That works for powerful companies for sure but once you drop in scale and on more generic goods, that is clearly another story.

codemac 5y ago

I've been buying from https://bonafidemasks.com https://bonafidemasks.com , they sell Guangzhou Powecom and Guangzhou Harley masks, which all do incredibly well (99+) with their KN95's on the CDC website. I highly recommend them.

EvanAnderson 5y ago
Has their order fulfillment been outrageously slow for you? I've bought from then twice (Jan 2021 and Dec 2021) and both times they didn't even ship my order for 2 weeks.
- codemac 5y ago
  They're extremely busy, as per the new recommendation. I buy 100's at a time though, so I always have plenty of overlap between orders.
- dboreham 5y ago
  They shipped mine quickly. I ordered a couple hundred masks so possibly they ship larger orders quicker?
- jerlam 5y ago
  They've always been slow for me. My first order in November 2020, I think it took three weeks from ordering to receipt. The following two orders haven't been quite as bad, but there was a noticeable delay.
aheckler 5y ago
> all do incredibly well (99+) with their KN95's on the CDC website Not all, strictly speaking. I see one Powecom mask listed under the "Respirator Assessment Results Considered as Counterfeit and/or Misuse of Company Name" section of the CDC's site [0]. Open the link, scroll down to that heading, click on the "G" tab, then Cmd+F for "Guangzhou Powecom Labor Insurance Supplies" and you'll see it. That said, I suspect it was maybe just a slightly sub-standard batch. The minimum filtration efficiency was still >93%, not anywhere near as bad as some others on that list. I still plan on buying the Powecom KN95s from Bona Fide Masks in the future. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [0] https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSHresults.html https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSH...

skipwalker 5y ago

https://www.demetech.us/ https://www.demetech.us/ American made. I heard a podcast about them. It might have been Planet Money. They ramped up production at the start of the pandemic, but then could not sell their supply. They were not allowed to advertise on Facebook because PPE was supposed to be reserved for the medical community, but then the medical community wasn’t buying either for budgetary reasons and fear of counterfeits. https://www.wbur.org/npr/984952702/why-are-millions-of-n95-masks-sitting-in-a-factory-without-a-buyer https://www.wbur.org/npr/984952702/why-are-millions-of-n95-m...

alins 5y ago

https://www.armbrustusa.com/ https://www.armbrustusa.com/ American made N95, KN95, and ASTM Level 3 masks. See their mask testing database, click on each and see a video of their test: https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing?mask=-review https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing?mask=-review You can find 20-30% off coupons for them online. I'm very happy with my purchases from them.

john_moscow 5y ago

Could anyone please explain why we don't have commercially viable gas mask-style full-face respirators with replaceable filter cartridges? The problem with the regular masks is that a huge amount of air still goes around them. You can do an experiment - firmly push a KN95 respirator into your face with 4 fingers and try breathing through it. You'll feel more resistance, you'll actually smell the filtering material, you'll see how the mask puffs up when you exhale. You let go and most of these effects go away, as the air is just going between the mask and your face. P.S. I was researching the topic before taking a longish flight, looking to minimize my chance of catching COVID before a tropical vacation to ~0% and was rather astounded that full-face masks, like the gas ones aren't even allowed in the airports. I didn't catch COVID that time, but I wonder how much transmission could we cut off if we offered something like this in places where people are forced to sit together for prolonged time.

goodside 5y ago
We do. Masks exactly like the ones you’re describing are widely sold in hardware stores. They’re properly known as elastomeric respirators. They’re clunky, hideous, and they greatly impair communication far more than a disposable N95 or KN95. Nobody wants them for daily use. Also, because they’re almost invariably sold for use in construction and carpentry, not medical settings, they use exhale vents. Some people think this is a big problem, and dismiss these respirators as a class because of it. Respirators without exhale valves, as well as ones with voice diaphragms for speech, are also available for medical use, but these are unusual and AFAIK didn’t exist before Covid.
- drjasonharrison 5y ago
  However they are great for not fogging glasses.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
WillPostForFood 5y ago

Mister_X 5y ago

Here's an interesting mask review site I ran across a couple of days ago, looks legit. https://www.youtube.com/c/ArmbrustUSA/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/ArmbrustUSA/videos

runnerup 5y ago

dang: original title is "Types of Masks and Respirators". Only a small box in the middle relates to counterfeit KN95's.

kirbyfan64sos 5y ago

I'd like to mention that there are also two excellent YouTube channels that do mask efficacy testing & reviews: https://youtube.com/channel/UC3fF_rzkmZD0ufN685YE7lg https://youtube.com/channel/UC3fF_rzkmZD0ufN685YE7lg https://youtube.com/channel/UCnxwOf4gYCx1eEh7NVbxcYg https://youtube.com/channel/UCnxwOf4gYCx1eEh7NVbxcYg

divbzero 5y ago

This Show HN [1] from Armbrust earlier in the week provided lab tests of 300+ masks bought from Amazon. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29878971 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29878971

dehrmann 5y ago

Amusing to see knockoffs of knockoffs (KN95 is a Chinese standard).

trembonator 5y ago

rasz 5y ago

How about "N95-grade" respirator? https://www.fastcompany.com/90706115/this-high-tech-mask-went-viral-but-then-the-company-had-to-figure-out-how-to-build-it https://www.fastcompany.com/90706115/this-high-tech-mask-wen... "Razer points out that the system has been independently certified with a Bacterial Filtration Efficiency of over 99%, like an N95." https://www.ign.com/articles/razer-project-hazel-rgb-n95-mask-details-release-date https://www.ign.com/articles/razer-project-hazel-rgb-n95-mas... "Razer claims that Project Hazel is the world's smartest mask. It is a reusable N95 respirator" https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22613139/razer-zephyr-n95-rgb-mask-project-hazel https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/6/22613139/razer-zephyr-n95-... "Razer announced today that its lit-like-a-gaming-PC N95 mask" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/review-i-wore-razers-zephyr-n95-mask-for-two-weeks-so-you-dont-have-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/review-i-wore-razers... "I wore Razer’s Zephyr N95 mask" until https://mashable.com/article/razer-zephyr-n95-mask-claim-removal https://mashable.com/article/razer-zephyr-n95-mask-claim-rem... https://www.gamesradar.com/razer-admits-its-masks-arent-n95-grade-after-all/ https://www.gamesradar.com/razer-admits-its-masks-arent-n95-... https://mothership.sg/2022/01/razer-n95-zephyr-mask/ https://mothership.sg/2022/01/razer-n95-zephyr-mask/

bradknowles 5y ago
See Naomi Wu’s video at https://youtu.be/nDzhGjbvVGc https://youtu.be/nDzhGjbvVGc