4 ms·

I used to think this too, but now my position is more nuanced. Certainly you need to have shown you have a passion for technology that goes beyond the norm, but

by sehugg 15y ago

I used to think this too, but now my position is more nuanced. Certainly you need to have shown you have a passion for technology that goes beyond the norm, but there are other reasons you might not have lots of recent code outside of work. Maybe you have a family. Or maybe you have such a fulfilling current job that you don't feel the need to supplement it with extracurricular activities. Maybe you are interested in developing non-technical skills that would make you more useful in the future. Etc. But some positions do require that Olympic athlete mindset. For other positions it's a detriment.

wyclif 15y ago
Maybe your employment contract states that anything you create is owned by your company so there is no code "outside of work." The question then becomes whether that is a contingency that has affected your passion or not.
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  As would be the case if you worked for some of the Bay Areas biggest names in tech.
  - spacemanaki 15y ago
    I thought those contracts were not enforceable in CA? I'm most definitely not a lawyer tho, so I have little to back that up, but it's what I read in Joel Spolsky's answer here: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-stu http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...
    - ChuckMcM 15y ago
      Generally they are not enforcable, but it doesn't stop folks like Google and Cisco from having them. And they are written with big letters in the front "THIS IS AN AT WILL ARRANGEMENT ..." which basically says they can fire you at any time for any reason and later "We own everything you do while you work for us." Basically the message is "Sure work on your own projects and we will decide it's no longer in our best interest in employing you." and "If you do a side project and publish it or let it out in any way, we may decide its no longer in our best interest to employ you." I have heard stories of course but only have first hand knowledge of one person with whom Google decided to fire because they did some open source work they didn't like. When I asked an employment attorney about these sorts of things his advice was that I could probably sue them and win but it was simpler and less expensive to just quit if I really wanted to work on other stuff.
      - Luyt 15y ago
        > just quit if I really wanted to work on other stuff That, or publish the code under a pseudonym.
      - 0x12 15y ago
        > I have heard stories of course but only have first hand knowledge of one person with whom Google decided to fire because they did some open source work they didn't like. Wow. That's quite a statement, I'm pretty sure there would be quite a few people that would like to see a bit more on that. Both from the perspective of having google as a future employer as well as to make sure you didn't make it up, it's quite a statement.
- mxavier 15y ago
  Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Are there really contracts that say that any code you write, even if it is unrelated to your work and off-hours is the property of the company you work for? If so, that sounds like a horrible arrangement. That would be like a chef making a sandwich for himself at lunch and having to give it to the restaurant where he works instead.
  - justincormack 15y ago
    Yes there are. Big companies mainly, eg the News Corp contracts say that.
  - timc3 15y ago
    Or if you have a standard contract in Sweden
  - chollida1 15y ago
    http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-stu/20136#20136 http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-... This is often referenced when a question like this comes up.
  - pnathan 15y ago
    HP used to have that clause in '06 or so. I read through their agreement around that time.
vosper 15y ago
I agree completely - also, in some jobs (yes, even in software) it's as important that you're well-spoken, out-going and social as you are a passionate developer. In my hiring I'd have more alarm bells ringing for someone who spends the majority of their awake time coding vs someone who loves it but also loves doing other things.

by sehugg 15y ago

wyclif 15y ago

Maybe your employment contract states that anything you create is owned by your company so there is no code "outside of work." The question then becomes whether that is a contingency that has affected your passion or not.

ChuckMcM 15y ago
As would be the case if you worked for some of the Bay Areas biggest names in tech.
- spacemanaki 15y ago
  I thought those contracts were not enforceable in CA? I'm most definitely not a lawyer tho, so I have little to back that up, but it's what I read in Joel Spolsky's answer here: http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-stu http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-...
  - ChuckMcM 15y ago
    Generally they are not enforcable, but it doesn't stop folks like Google and Cisco from having them. And they are written with big letters in the front "THIS IS AN AT WILL ARRANGEMENT ..." which basically says they can fire you at any time for any reason and later "We own everything you do while you work for us." Basically the message is "Sure work on your own projects and we will decide it's no longer in our best interest in employing you." and "If you do a side project and publish it or let it out in any way, we may decide its no longer in our best interest to employ you." I have heard stories of course but only have first hand knowledge of one person with whom Google decided to fire because they did some open source work they didn't like. When I asked an employment attorney about these sorts of things his advice was that I could probably sue them and win but it was simpler and less expensive to just quit if I really wanted to work on other stuff.
    - Luyt 15y ago
      > just quit if I really wanted to work on other stuff That, or publish the code under a pseudonym.
    - 0x12 15y ago
      > I have heard stories of course but only have first hand knowledge of one person with whom Google decided to fire because they did some open source work they didn't like. Wow. That's quite a statement, I'm pretty sure there would be quite a few people that would like to see a bit more on that. Both from the perspective of having google as a future employer as well as to make sure you didn't make it up, it's quite a statement.
mxavier 15y ago
Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Are there really contracts that say that any code you write, even if it is unrelated to your work and off-hours is the property of the company you work for? If so, that sounds like a horrible arrangement. That would be like a chef making a sandwich for himself at lunch and having to give it to the restaurant where he works instead.
- justincormack 15y ago
  Yes there are. Big companies mainly, eg the News Corp contracts say that.
- timc3 15y ago
  Or if you have a standard contract in Sweden
- chollida1 15y ago
  http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-at-a-company-do-they-have-intellectual-property-rights-to-the-stu/20136#20136 http://answers.onstartups.com/questions/19422/if-im-working-... This is often referenced when a question like this comes up.
- pnathan 15y ago
  HP used to have that clause in '06 or so. I read through their agreement around that time.

vosper 15y ago

I agree completely - also, in some jobs (yes, even in software) it's as important that you're well-spoken, out-going and social as you are a passionate developer. In my hiring I'd have more alarm bells ringing for someone who spends the majority of their awake time coding vs someone who loves it but also loves doing other things.