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There shouldn't be a divide between skilled trades and bachelor's degrees. If I could add a creative writing minor to math degree, why was it impossible for me

There shouldn't be a divide between skilled trades and bachelor's degrees. If I could add a creative writing minor to math degree, why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school?

lapsedacademic 5y ago
> why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school? Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty. See also: the alarming number of schools where CS and Data Science courses are still taught by mathematics faulty (because they can't find CS faculty who are willing to work for $70K). This model of "pay unqualified people to teach a good enough version of the course and hope our consumers don't notice they're being shafted" only works in unregulated fields. Most trades are not unregulated.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  > Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty. Yeah, the crucial thing that most people miss in these discussion is that most schools don’t actually effectively teach what they claim to be teaching. Teachers and students go through the motions, but the students don’t actually end up learning much of anything, and the teachers who nevertheless give them passing grade face no consequence. If a typical high school started offering aircraft maintenance certification, instead of increasing the graduates value on job market, it would simply make the certification to be held as worthless.
- yardie 5y ago
  For most schools CS is literally in the Math Department. And traditional CS is a lot more math than the contemporary CS, which should really be called SWE. My alma mater finally merged CS and SWE, then moved the new CS/SWE degree to Engineering because engineering basically prints money.
sokoloff 5y ago
Because the AMT course is typically 24 months long by itself (for a combined airframe and powerplant certificate)? It’s 30 months of relevant, supervised maintenance work experience or a qualified AMT school program, which are often 24 months full-time. That’s far more time than a typical creative writing minor.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  You've not really addressed the spirit of the question, they're not asking about aircraft maintenance really, they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed? I guess in the UK you'd try for an apprenticeship with day release to college for the academic elements (or take a job in a technical field and do an Open University or other distance learning course for the academic side?).
  - lapsedacademic 5y ago
    they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed? I think they did answer this: it's because hands-on practical/technical skills are hard to learn and people who can teach them are generally expensive.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Education is also expensive, arguably what the hell are we paying for then?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I'd add that while a full certification is quite hard to learn and takes a lot of time, schools absolutely have hands on courses. I have a mechanical engineering degree and two of my courses were very hands on with machine shop and building something for a contest.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I tried to and answered the way I did because I think a lot of people vastly underestimate the time and effort required to get certified for a trade. “Why can’t I just add an MD to my engineering degree?” seems like a ridiculous question, but “Why can’t I add a plumber’s or electrician’s or AMT license/certificate to my degree?” is treated as “well, that’s a good question; you ought to be able to!” (They specifically asked about a certification not just “some coursework”.)

lapsedacademic 5y ago

> why was it impossible for me to add an aircraft maintenance certification through my school? Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty. See also: the alarming number of schools where CS and Data Science courses are still taught by mathematics faulty (because they can't find CS faculty who are willing to work for $70K). This model of "pay unqualified people to teach a good enough version of the course and hope our consumers don't notice they're being shafted" only works in unregulated fields. Most trades are not unregulated.

xyzzyz 5y ago
> Because schools can't bullshit maintenance certification curricula and aren't willing to pay qualified faculty. Yeah, the crucial thing that most people miss in these discussion is that most schools don’t actually effectively teach what they claim to be teaching. Teachers and students go through the motions, but the students don’t actually end up learning much of anything, and the teachers who nevertheless give them passing grade face no consequence. If a typical high school started offering aircraft maintenance certification, instead of increasing the graduates value on job market, it would simply make the certification to be held as worthless.
yardie 5y ago
For most schools CS is literally in the Math Department. And traditional CS is a lot more math than the contemporary CS, which should really be called SWE. My alma mater finally merged CS and SWE, then moved the new CS/SWE degree to Engineering because engineering basically prints money.

sokoloff 5y ago

Because the AMT course is typically 24 months long by itself (for a combined airframe and powerplant certificate)? It’s 30 months of relevant, supervised maintenance work experience or a qualified AMT school program, which are often 24 months full-time. That’s far more time than a typical creative writing minor.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago
You've not really addressed the spirit of the question, they're not asking about aircraft maintenance really, they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed? I guess in the UK you'd try for an apprenticeship with day release to college for the academic elements (or take a job in a technical field and do an Open University or other distance learning course for the academic side?).
- lapsedacademic 5y ago
  they're asking why academic courses and more hands-on practical/technical courses can't be mixed? I think they did answer this: it's because hands-on practical/technical skills are hard to learn and people who can teach them are generally expensive.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Education is also expensive, arguably what the hell are we paying for then?
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I'd add that while a full certification is quite hard to learn and takes a lot of time, schools absolutely have hands on courses. I have a mechanical engineering degree and two of my courses were very hands on with machine shop and building something for a contest.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I tried to and answered the way I did because I think a lot of people vastly underestimate the time and effort required to get certified for a trade. “Why can’t I just add an MD to my engineering degree?” seems like a ridiculous question, but “Why can’t I add a plumber’s or electrician’s or AMT license/certificate to my degree?” is treated as “well, that’s a good question; you ought to be able to!” (They specifically asked about a certification not just “some coursework”.)