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Thank you for hilariously illustrating how bubble-y the current moment feels. If you think dramatically increasing compensation is going to continue in the nex

Thank you for hilariously illustrating how bubble-y the current moment feels. If you think dramatically increasing compensation is going to continue in the next decade like it has in the last one, I think you might be disappointed. Now that companies are comfortable with remote, HR departments are eventually going to realize that services like Deel exist, and that its not actually that hard to hire employees overseas. Once job ads start removing the "US only" part from the requirements, comp is going to come crashing back to earth. A remote worker in the US being paid 4-5X as much as a remote worker in Europe is a massive market inefficiency just waiting to be arbitraged by companies. As the tech giants growth inevitably slows over the coming years, they're going to have to start looking more closely at their cost structure to meet investor expectations.

ramphastidae 5y ago
Nope. Cheap, outsourced labor has been available for decades. If what you’re saying was true, the shift would have already happened. The reality is that the vast majority of outsourced labor is significantly lower quality than the onshore talent. Mix that with poor communication and a ten hour time zone difference … it’s usually net negative.
- tellmemore9 5y ago
- abletonlive 5y ago
  This is an easy observation to make yet so many fail to see it. We already have contractors at my company and they aren't that productive. They are handed the easiest tasks with no business knowledge required because well, they are just contractors. Well, that and the fact that they live in a completely different timezone which means communication is async which means slower cycles of understanding and learning.
- ThrowawayR2 5y ago
  Instead of outsourcing, even relatively small businesses are now opening international branch offices with full time local employees, tapping the pool of talented engineers who would prefer not to emigrate. The grandparent poster is correct: if there's real savings to be had, eventually someone will find a way to get to it.
  - acdha 5y ago
    I think you’re both right: outsourcing jobs rarely saves money due to the communications & cultural gaps if you’re trying to closely manage someone’s work and they don’t have a very clear understanding of where their work fits in the larger scheme of things. What works better is outsourcing entire business functions so all of that routine coordination can happen in the same team/time zone, and you have an easier time measuring performance.
zero41a 5y ago
My company has been in the foreign contractor market for a while. I still make a massive US salary. Having been on the hiring team for many of these contractor shops I can tell you that the skill level of contractors in India/Africa/China/Ukraine has another 5-10 years before it even begins to approach the average skill of a seasoned American engineer. For a while my business as an independent contractor was quite literally fixing code written by foreigners because the company thought they could play this arbitrage game. For example, we've hired several engineers through a very big name, silicon valley backed, foreign contractor firm. They perform at the level of a junior engineer at best.
- Aperocky 5y ago
  Another perspective to consider is that the best talent in those countries (specifically China and India) are not going to these consulting firms. China in particular have large tech companies (e.g. tiktok) that offer pays that almost matches the US, which skimmed the best engineers away from these contracting jobs.
  - hnfong 5y ago
    The best ones also usually end up in California with a H1B visa. Also, why would one prefer to do random consulting work for a company exploiting salary arbitrage when they can choose to work for various companies doing more interesting work (either remotely or locally)?
- Xt-6 5y ago
  In my experience, it is less about skills but more about cultural differences that make them appear less skilled.
- pembrook 5y ago
  I'm not talking about old school companies replacing their "IT" departments with Indian contracting firms. I'm talking about tech companies directly hiring employees from other countries. You don't even need to leave the English speaking world to find massive arbitrage opportunities. If you think there's no React developers in the UK/Australia/Etc who can do leetcode problems...I've got news for you.
wyclif 5y ago
HR departments are eventually going to realize that services like Deel exist, and that its not actually that hard to hire employees overseas The only fly in the soup there is that I see loads of remote roles that can only be performed in the USA because of PII. It's not so much that the workforce is getting globalized, but that the country-specific workforce is going remote in whatever boundaries they're legally allowed to work (in this case, within US borders).

ramphastidae 5y ago

Nope. Cheap, outsourced labor has been available for decades. If what you’re saying was true, the shift would have already happened. The reality is that the vast majority of outsourced labor is significantly lower quality than the onshore talent. Mix that with poor communication and a ten hour time zone difference … it’s usually net negative.

tellmemore9 5y ago
abletonlive 5y ago
This is an easy observation to make yet so many fail to see it. We already have contractors at my company and they aren't that productive. They are handed the easiest tasks with no business knowledge required because well, they are just contractors. Well, that and the fact that they live in a completely different timezone which means communication is async which means slower cycles of understanding and learning.
ThrowawayR2 5y ago
Instead of outsourcing, even relatively small businesses are now opening international branch offices with full time local employees, tapping the pool of talented engineers who would prefer not to emigrate. The grandparent poster is correct: if there's real savings to be had, eventually someone will find a way to get to it.
- acdha 5y ago
  I think you’re both right: outsourcing jobs rarely saves money due to the communications & cultural gaps if you’re trying to closely manage someone’s work and they don’t have a very clear understanding of where their work fits in the larger scheme of things. What works better is outsourcing entire business functions so all of that routine coordination can happen in the same team/time zone, and you have an easier time measuring performance.

zero41a 5y ago

My company has been in the foreign contractor market for a while. I still make a massive US salary. Having been on the hiring team for many of these contractor shops I can tell you that the skill level of contractors in India/Africa/China/Ukraine has another 5-10 years before it even begins to approach the average skill of a seasoned American engineer. For a while my business as an independent contractor was quite literally fixing code written by foreigners because the company thought they could play this arbitrage game. For example, we've hired several engineers through a very big name, silicon valley backed, foreign contractor firm. They perform at the level of a junior engineer at best.

Aperocky 5y ago
Another perspective to consider is that the best talent in those countries (specifically China and India) are not going to these consulting firms. China in particular have large tech companies (e.g. tiktok) that offer pays that almost matches the US, which skimmed the best engineers away from these contracting jobs.
- hnfong 5y ago
  The best ones also usually end up in California with a H1B visa. Also, why would one prefer to do random consulting work for a company exploiting salary arbitrage when they can choose to work for various companies doing more interesting work (either remotely or locally)?
Xt-6 5y ago
In my experience, it is less about skills but more about cultural differences that make them appear less skilled.
pembrook 5y ago
I'm not talking about old school companies replacing their "IT" departments with Indian contracting firms. I'm talking about tech companies directly hiring employees from other countries. You don't even need to leave the English speaking world to find massive arbitrage opportunities. If you think there's no React developers in the UK/Australia/Etc who can do leetcode problems...I've got news for you.

wyclif 5y ago

HR departments are eventually going to realize that services like Deel exist, and that its not actually that hard to hire employees overseas The only fly in the soup there is that I see loads of remote roles that can only be performed in the USA because of PII. It's not so much that the workforce is getting globalized, but that the country-specific workforce is going remote in whatever boundaries they're legally allowed to work (in this case, within US borders).