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I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role a

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises this large to people without reason. I agree with your point fully, it’s just unfortunate it doesn’t happen.

sbarre 5y ago
In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year? At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a competing job offer in hand or threatens to leave in specific terms) is told "we thank you for your time here, best of luck"... Because it is assumed they are not dedicated to the company and so investing further in them is not wise. This is old-school thinking in my opinion, but it's probably still how a lot of places think. Unless you are _critical_ to a project or team, it's a risky play. Generally speaking it's a dilemma for sure, and I'm not picking a side here, but I have to imagine there is a lot of tension these days in companies due to these kinds of pressures. Again, good for you for negotiating a better comp for yourself though!
- massysett 5y ago
  This is not at all a risky play, because GP was willing to walk. It’s a true negotiation only if you’re willing to walk out. So to negotiate, realistically assess the availability of other options, and whether you’d accept them. If you’re not willing to walk, it’s just a game of chicken. That can indeed be risky, as then you might lose what you have with no fallback and no alternative.
  - Nemi 5y ago
    I do agree that it is negotiation, but it IS a risky play. While you are negotiating, you have leverage. But it is time dependent leverage. If you stay, you lose, not all, but a large part of that leverage. If you do stay AND they decide that you are a risk for THEM, they may make moves to make them less dependent on you and at some point may RIF you or move you out in some other way and at that point you may not have a fallback option. While it is true that you are a great employee and someone will scoop you up eventually, when you are looking for a job and are currently not working, you LOSE leverage with your new potential employer. It is human psychology that you appear more attractive to an employer when you currently have a job than if you don’t. This puts you at a disadvantage going forward. I am not saying don’t negotiate with your current employer for a pay raise, but leveraging another job offer does come with some risks you should be aware of. Some employers can see it as “burning a bridge” (I don’t agree with them, but it happens). Personally what I do is try to negotiate without a job offer in hand (never threaten to quit) and if they don’t give you a good-faith pay raise then start looking for a new job then. It can take a year or more to find a good job you want. Then quit. They have already shown you that they don’t value you enough to pay you more. Paying you more under duress often does not end well.
    - hiq 5y ago
      > what I do is try to negotiate without a job offer in hand You can have an offer in hand and just not talk about it. Without an offer, it can also be harder to come up with numbers. What if you ask for X at your current job, get it, but then get an offer for X+D from another company one month after? Some posts read like they threatened their employers, but the politically correct way to negotiate is something like: "I think my market value, based on comparisons with friends with similar experience, is +x% of what I'm getting currently. I'd like to fix this so I stay here longer-term, because I like my current job thanks to y and z. Can we fix this?". It really depends on the company culture, I've heard places where employees are encouraged to apply elsewhere to know what their market value is (isn't Netflix such an example?), in this case you won't look bad if you do get another offer and bring it up more directly.
  - treeman79 5y ago
- rimliu 5y ago
  Is "dedicated to the company" mentality still a thing? Let's say the same company buys supplies form supplier X. Then supplier Y shows up with 30% reduced price, same quality. Do you think the company will show "dedication" for the supplier X? Then they should not surprised that engineers are willing to accept a better offer. As for "for now" bit—they should not forget that this is ongoing thing.
- tclancy 5y ago
  Invert that thinking and it means they assume anyone who is loyal to the company can be treated poorly. There is no reason to be loyal to a company you don’t have a stake in, because they cannot be loyal to you. If making payroll next week requires them to fire you, they will.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  Do you think your company would have the same reaction if engineers ask for a substantial (5-figures) bump in stock year over year?
- antris 5y ago
  Companies will never, ever be loyal to their employees. Don't fall for that "being loyal to your company" mindset. You won't get rewarded.
  - mikewarot 5y ago
    I used to work for a Marketing company that was pretty loyal to us workers. It's since been sold, I have no idea how the new owner has been handling things.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  Its really no risk at all as they were going to leave for a better offer anyway. the absolute worst case is that management says best of luck and they take a higher paying job. I have gotten a job offer before that included a 15% raise, told my current employer that the new company offered me a 30% raise becuase I really did not want to stay and figured small risk of them offering a match. My current employer unexpectedly matched the made up 30% and I stayed another year. If they did not think I was worth the 30% bump they would not have matched. Then I got an offer for a 55% raise from another company, current employer could not match that one and wished me well. No harm no foul. If the business was doing poorly management would absolutely cut heads, that is the reality of the US based at will employment system. Companies (not managers) have no real loyalty to employees so why have loyalty to them. No need to be aggressive or mean, just taking care of the best interests of one's self and family.
pydry 5y ago
I've seen some friends some do this. The time it took to go through, the size of the raise and the headache involved in convincing everybody (like pulling teeth), still, IME, essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. Still others have thrown out raises without being pushed but they were critical organizational lynchpins getting 10% raises when the market would bump them 50% minimum. That's even worse. Fundamentally, I think the surplus value from these tech workers who hate interviewing and get "stuck" with cost of inflation raises are often a lot more profitable than we'd give them credit for, and a lot of companies are happy to risk losing a high performer if it meant keeping 3 profitable grumbling malcontents on lower pay.
- dagw 5y ago
  essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. I've done this as well, but I actually liked my current job and wanted to stay. I had a potentially new job lined up which would have paid much better, but it also had many downsides. Primarily a much long commute and a pretty boring industry that didn't interest me. So I was happy to split the difference between my current salary and the new offer and keep doing the job that I liked.
- letitbeirie 5y ago
  > IME, essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. I think it's weird how hard it is to convince your colleagues and your management that you're worth 50% more than you were yesterday by continuing to work, yet how easy it is to convince the same people of the same thing by quitting. I also think most companies realize how disadvantaged they are in salary negotiations in this job market, but it's favored employers for so long that very few of them have any idea what to do about it.
  - pydry 5y ago
    I think it's partly that when you ask for a 50% pay raise a year in theyre probably afraid you may tell all your colleagues who are your friends and who know your productivity and then everybody's asking for a pay raise. Less risk of that happening if you are a fresh face starting out with 50% more. You probably wont share and plus, who knows what kind of hot shot you are? Plus, your leverage at the point where you decide to take the job or not is at its highest. They'll infer that walking away is much easier for you than it is when you've spent 2 years somewhere and you're settled.
sys_64738 5y ago
As long as you're willing to walk if this fails. Also, be aware that your card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future. I'd expect most companies would reduce the risk of such by making sure what you do has overlap with others. Come the time I expect you'll be managed or re-org'd out the door.
- specialp 5y ago
  That depends on the situation. Yes, if it was something like "Hey, I know you have this huge project deadline that I am a critical part of, and if you don't pay me a grossly large amount more, I am out" That is hostage taking, and they would not look fondly on you. But the request of asking for a rate that you are being offered on the open market is not. They have 2 choices there: They can pay you more because you are worth it, or they can wish you the best. If this company had a bunch of employees come in and get take 30% comp less than you and did the same quality of work, do you think they would be "loyal" to you and grossly overpay you? Absolutely not, and they shouldn't. Of course, the company would love to just pay you less, but they realize that your value proposition still exceeds that.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    Corporations are completely tone deaf. The way you say things and the details of your situations will not be perceived by the relevant decision managers. In a small company, it can make a difference. In a large one, it won't.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  " card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future" Not sure this is such a terrible thing. He got far more money than he would have originally if he just said nothing and stayed and if going forward he just gets 3 - 5% it is still a % of a much larger number. Worst case is if for some reason the company gets vindictive they just get a new job and a new raise. Optimally though if the employee is pleasant and up front about a new offer, then the company treats it as strictly business. They decide if the requested salary is worth what the developer delivers, if yes they make the offer, if no they wish the employee well with their new job.

sbarre 5y ago

In effect, you threatened them into giving you a raise. And I'll say congrats on getting it, but are you at all concerned about your ongoing relationship with management? Do they think "he's good for a few years at least now" in terms of comp adjustment, and/or do you expect a raise again next year? At my company, I understand (but have not seen first hand) that anyone who tries this (either comes to the table with a competing job offer in hand or threatens to leave in specific terms) is told "we thank you for your time here, best of luck"... Because it is assumed they are not dedicated to the company and so investing further in them is not wise. This is old-school thinking in my opinion, but it's probably still how a lot of places think. Unless you are _critical_ to a project or team, it's a risky play. Generally speaking it's a dilemma for sure, and I'm not picking a side here, but I have to imagine there is a lot of tension these days in companies due to these kinds of pressures. Again, good for you for negotiating a better comp for yourself though!

massysett 5y ago
This is not at all a risky play, because GP was willing to walk. It’s a true negotiation only if you’re willing to walk out. So to negotiate, realistically assess the availability of other options, and whether you’d accept them. If you’re not willing to walk, it’s just a game of chicken. That can indeed be risky, as then you might lose what you have with no fallback and no alternative.
- Nemi 5y ago
  I do agree that it is negotiation, but it IS a risky play. While you are negotiating, you have leverage. But it is time dependent leverage. If you stay, you lose, not all, but a large part of that leverage. If you do stay AND they decide that you are a risk for THEM, they may make moves to make them less dependent on you and at some point may RIF you or move you out in some other way and at that point you may not have a fallback option. While it is true that you are a great employee and someone will scoop you up eventually, when you are looking for a job and are currently not working, you LOSE leverage with your new potential employer. It is human psychology that you appear more attractive to an employer when you currently have a job than if you don’t. This puts you at a disadvantage going forward. I am not saying don’t negotiate with your current employer for a pay raise, but leveraging another job offer does come with some risks you should be aware of. Some employers can see it as “burning a bridge” (I don’t agree with them, but it happens). Personally what I do is try to negotiate without a job offer in hand (never threaten to quit) and if they don’t give you a good-faith pay raise then start looking for a new job then. It can take a year or more to find a good job you want. Then quit. They have already shown you that they don’t value you enough to pay you more. Paying you more under duress often does not end well.
  - hiq 5y ago
    > what I do is try to negotiate without a job offer in hand You can have an offer in hand and just not talk about it. Without an offer, it can also be harder to come up with numbers. What if you ask for X at your current job, get it, but then get an offer for X+D from another company one month after? Some posts read like they threatened their employers, but the politically correct way to negotiate is something like: "I think my market value, based on comparisons with friends with similar experience, is +x% of what I'm getting currently. I'd like to fix this so I stay here longer-term, because I like my current job thanks to y and z. Can we fix this?". It really depends on the company culture, I've heard places where employees are encouraged to apply elsewhere to know what their market value is (isn't Netflix such an example?), in this case you won't look bad if you do get another offer and bring it up more directly.
- treeman79 5y ago
rimliu 5y ago
Is "dedicated to the company" mentality still a thing? Let's say the same company buys supplies form supplier X. Then supplier Y shows up with 30% reduced price, same quality. Do you think the company will show "dedication" for the supplier X? Then they should not surprised that engineers are willing to accept a better offer. As for "for now" bit—they should not forget that this is ongoing thing.
tclancy 5y ago
Invert that thinking and it means they assume anyone who is loyal to the company can be treated poorly. There is no reason to be loyal to a company you don’t have a stake in, because they cannot be loyal to you. If making payroll next week requires them to fire you, they will.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
notreallyserio 5y ago
Do you think your company would have the same reaction if engineers ask for a substantial (5-figures) bump in stock year over year?
antris 5y ago
Companies will never, ever be loyal to their employees. Don't fall for that "being loyal to your company" mindset. You won't get rewarded.
- mikewarot 5y ago
  I used to work for a Marketing company that was pretty loyal to us workers. It's since been sold, I have no idea how the new owner has been handling things.
wonderwonder 5y ago
Its really no risk at all as they were going to leave for a better offer anyway. the absolute worst case is that management says best of luck and they take a higher paying job. I have gotten a job offer before that included a 15% raise, told my current employer that the new company offered me a 30% raise becuase I really did not want to stay and figured small risk of them offering a match. My current employer unexpectedly matched the made up 30% and I stayed another year. If they did not think I was worth the 30% bump they would not have matched. Then I got an offer for a 55% raise from another company, current employer could not match that one and wished me well. No harm no foul. If the business was doing poorly management would absolutely cut heads, that is the reality of the US based at will employment system. Companies (not managers) have no real loyalty to employees so why have loyalty to them. No need to be aggressive or mean, just taking care of the best interests of one's self and family.

pydry 5y ago

I've seen some friends some do this. The time it took to go through, the size of the raise and the headache involved in convincing everybody (like pulling teeth), still, IME, essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. Still others have thrown out raises without being pushed but they were critical organizational lynchpins getting 10% raises when the market would bump them 50% minimum. That's even worse. Fundamentally, I think the surplus value from these tech workers who hate interviewing and get "stuck" with cost of inflation raises are often a lot more profitable than we'd give them credit for, and a lot of companies are happy to risk losing a high performer if it meant keeping 3 profitable grumbling malcontents on lower pay.

dagw 5y ago
essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. I've done this as well, but I actually liked my current job and wanted to stay. I had a potentially new job lined up which would have paid much better, but it also had many downsides. Primarily a much long commute and a pretty boring industry that didn't interest me. So I was happy to split the difference between my current salary and the new offer and keep doing the job that I liked.
letitbeirie 5y ago
> IME, essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. I think it's weird how hard it is to convince your colleagues and your management that you're worth 50% more than you were yesterday by continuing to work, yet how easy it is to convince the same people of the same thing by quitting. I also think most companies realize how disadvantaged they are in salary negotiations in this job market, but it's favored employers for so long that very few of them have any idea what to do about it.
- pydry 5y ago
  I think it's partly that when you ask for a 50% pay raise a year in theyre probably afraid you may tell all your colleagues who are your friends and who know your productivity and then everybody's asking for a pay raise. Less risk of that happening if you are a fresh face starting out with 50% more. You probably wont share and plus, who knows what kind of hot shot you are? Plus, your leverage at the point where you decide to take the job or not is at its highest. They'll infer that walking away is much easier for you than it is when you've spent 2 years somewhere and you're settled.

sys_64738 5y ago

As long as you're willing to walk if this fails. Also, be aware that your card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future. I'd expect most companies would reduce the risk of such by making sure what you do has overlap with others. Come the time I expect you'll be managed or re-org'd out the door.

specialp 5y ago
That depends on the situation. Yes, if it was something like "Hey, I know you have this huge project deadline that I am a critical part of, and if you don't pay me a grossly large amount more, I am out" That is hostage taking, and they would not look fondly on you. But the request of asking for a rate that you are being offered on the open market is not. They have 2 choices there: They can pay you more because you are worth it, or they can wish you the best. If this company had a bunch of employees come in and get take 30% comp less than you and did the same quality of work, do you think they would be "loyal" to you and grossly overpay you? Absolutely not, and they shouldn't. Of course, the company would love to just pay you less, but they realize that your value proposition still exceeds that.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  Corporations are completely tone deaf. The way you say things and the details of your situations will not be perceived by the relevant decision managers. In a small company, it can make a difference. In a large one, it won't.
wonderwonder 5y ago
" card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future" Not sure this is such a terrible thing. He got far more money than he would have originally if he just said nothing and stayed and if going forward he just gets 3 - 5% it is still a % of a much larger number. Worst case is if for some reason the company gets vindictive they just get a new job and a new raise. Optimally though if the employee is pleasant and up front about a new offer, then the company treats it as strictly business. They decide if the requested salary is worth what the developer delivers, if yes they make the offer, if no they wish the employee well with their new job.