5 ms·
Not trying to be provocative, but how is this any worse than existing cameras or motion sensors?
by EveYoung 5y ago
Not trying to be provocative, but how is this any worse than existing cameras or motion sensors?
- fsflover 5y agoDo you have those at home?
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoRF is far less hindered by stuff like walls.
- justaj 5y agoWith cameras and motion sensors you more or less know how they'll be used and as a user you can choose to disable them (or at the very least block them if you can't disable them). With this technology, it will be integrated into your router (and clients?), so turning those off will mean to turn off WiFi altogether. Added to that, I'll bet that most people wouldn't even begin to imagine that WiFi could be used for sensing people, and they'll continue using WiFi without being aware for the grave privacy implications.
- refulgentis 5y agoThere's no reason to assume any of that.
- Ginden 5y ago> With this technology, it will be integrated into your router (and clients?), so turning those off will mean to turn off WiFi altogether. It's rather unreasonable to think that you won't be able to turn off band on router. Especially given fact that 60Ghz is heavily shielded by _doors_, so any usable router would require fallback 2.4/5/6 Ghz connectivity.
- transpute 5y ago802.11bf Wi-Fi 7 Sensing works with all frequencies, 2.4 and up. Even if Neighbor 2 turns off their router, Neighbor 1 could passively use the radio waves from Neighbor 3's router to surveil reflections from Neighbor 2, including keyboard typing, heartrate/breathing, location and physical activity. Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27123493 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27123493
- judge2020 5y agoThe problem with this neighbor-spying fear is that "complex math using data from radio waves to sense stuff" is already possible and readily available by anyone willing to study and put in the world of building it, wifi 7 isn't suddenly enabling that part of rf analysis or mathematics.
- jsmcgd 5y ago> wifi 7 isn't suddenly enabling that part of rf analysis or mathematics It makes it suddenly ubiquitous when all new WiFi devices use the new standard.
- pizza 5y agoRemoving the PhD-level knowledge requirement from this particular mode of being an asshole doesn't sound like much of an improvement
- EricE 5y agoyes, but the real threat with this is not that it makes something possible that is already possible, but it makes the barrier to use that tech a LOT lower. Wrapping my house in tin foil is sounding a lot less conspiracy theorist now! Actually my house is going to be stuccoed - I wonder if they are using a metal mesh that I can ground. Hmm...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- riddleronroof 5y agoYour next door neighbor’s wifi will know your every movement, and can probably image it too. End of privacy within closed doors.
- jagger27 5y agoThis is hyperbole. 60GHz cannot penetrate walls and closed doors. 2.4GHz and 5GHz lack the resolution to image you, especially if your adversary only has control of one AP. There are already tons of side channel attacks with existing WiFi and Bluetooth that reveal when someone is in the area. Your neighbour could already be tracking your devices, for all you know.
- transpute 5y agoHere are 400 research papers on Wi-Fi sensing with 2.4/5Ghz, https://dhalperi.github.io/linux-80211n-csitool/#external https://dhalperi.github.io/linux-80211n-csitool/#external
- riddleronroof 5y agoThank you! Also, I can lid the device in a drawer. It’s greatly different than tracking exactly what I’m doing in any room. Also, consider flats next to each other.