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> At least Fauci, WHO, and Finnish health authorities HAVE come out afterwards and admitted that they lied about masks This is not true. I think Fauci etc. adm

> At least Fauci, WHO, and Finnish health authorities HAVE come out afterwards and admitted that they lied about masks This is not true. I think Fauci etc. admitted that a reason masks weren't recommended early on was partly to conserve masks. That's quite different from the claim that they actively lied about them.

chiefalchemist 5y ago
Perhaps. But we had a pandemic during the Obama/Biden admin, but no stockpile of appropriate PPE, masks, etc. This was, we were told, the pro-science administration. Pandemics are such a common trope that Hollywood has made multiple (bad) movies revolving around them. Yet it appears we were unprepared for the basics. What Fauci said or why isn't important. The question we should be asking is: Why were in that position to begin with? We were warned - time and again - and each time that warning was ignored.
- snomad 5y ago
  > We were warned - time and again - and each time that warning was ignored. And at least in the US, their are 1000s of people receiving good money to take that warning seriously. And they still failed.
- IgorPartola 5y ago
  This is wrong. The Obama administration did quite a bit to prevent future pandemics and the Trump administration dismantled it all pretty much immediately. Three things come to mind: the pandemic playbook, the pandemic response office, and the public health observers in China that were all recalled under Trump.
  - s5300 5y ago
    I love the reaction you get when you tell people there was literally something created & called “Pandemic Playbook” which was devised because they were expecting a pandemic in the next decade or two. & what happened to the Pandemic Playbook created by the 44th presidential administration? It was completely discarded by the 45th presidential administration. What proceeded to happen during the 45th presidential administration? A somewhat predicted pandemic. It’s too bad they didn’t have a playbook that told them step by step how to properly handle it…
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      And I love when ppl are so sucked into a particular narrative that they ignore the question being asked: Where were the stockpiles of appropriate equipment? Or did the playbook say such things would fall out of the sky, like manna from heaven? Fact: The 45th didn't discard them. In fact, the gov bought masks from Facebook and (I think) Google who did have a stockpile (but evidently not for pandemic purposes). You're loving the playbook but missing the fact that some basic and necessary execution never happened.
      - s5300 5y ago
        …sigh Feel free to use the search engine of your choice to search “US PPE Stockpile” & read any of the multiple credible articles that come up as the first results of the search. As it was known nearly immediately after COVID started, the stockpiles were mostly depleted - and what wasn’t depleted was mostly expired. This is why you saw pictures and videos of nurses demonstrating their supplied smocks disintegrating into dust as they put them on. The 45th administration had the responsibility to refresh the stockpiles, and they purposely chose not to. If you’re unaware of this, your snark is a bit funny as you appear to be the one suckered. Secondly: As for what the government bought after they remembered the stockpile is screwed, also for the small bit of it that was still useable. “The notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile. It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use,” - Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor, 45th Admin https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/3/21207140/jared-kushner-strategic-national-stockpile-ventilators https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/3/21207140/jared-kus... So much to the point that at least one state had to buy shipments of PPE in secrecy & then guard the distribution of said shipments with their National Guard. Everything not done in secrecy or guarded was being “appropriated” by the Feds, for reasons not hard to imagine given the statement of the aforementioned advisor. There’s a lot more to it, but I digress. Somebody here is indeed a sucker - but I do not believe it is I.
        chiefalchemist 5y ago
        So we had a stockpile that wasn't a stockpile, that wasn't effective? That ran out in no time at all? That's some great spin. Thanks.
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    You're confused. Where did I mention "pandemic playbook"? It's a _very_ simple question: Dear Uncle Sam - Where were the stockpiles of appropriate supplies? That's it. We can move on to other discussions but let's start with the basics first.
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  I heard a story about California preparing for the case of a pandemic in reaction to SARS many years ago (Schwarzenegger in 2006) stockpiling medical gear and building mobile hospitals that could be quickly moved to hotspots as disaster relief. The next governor (Brown in 2011) then cut funding to retain and renew it in an attempt to slim down the states budget.
Wiseacre 5y ago
"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus" - Surgeon General, Feb 29, 2020 Please stop spreading misinformation.
- chimprich 5y ago
  I am not spreading misinformation. Please don't throw accusations around. Previous Surgeon General Jerome Adams is not the same person as Fauci. I'm not in the USA, but looks like your surgeon general in Feb 2020 was not an ideal choice for the post. He sounds like a political Trump appointee. Even so, the full tweet read: "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!" ...so it sounds like he was quite upfront about the idea that mask use was partly being discouraged to avoid pressure on sourcing masks for medical professionals.
  - Wiseacre 5y ago
    The original point you argued against is if he lied, not if he lied for a good reason.
  - baobabKoodaa 5y ago
    You can't even keep your own arguments straight. In grandparent post you stated "There seemed to be genuine uncertainty early on in the pandemic about whether masks would be helpful". In this post you are stating "mask use was partly being discouraged to avoid pressure on sourcing masks for medical professionals". So which is it? Were they recommending against mask use because masks are not helpful, or were they recommending against mask use because masks are so helpful that we actually need to conserve them for medical professionals? Which is it? If you're going to lie, at least make up a consistent story.
    - chimprich 5y ago
      > Were they recommending against mask use because masks are not helpful, or were they recommending against mask use because masks are so helpful that we actually need to conserve them for medical professionals? Masks are clearly going to be more effective when used by trained personnel in a clinical setting. For example, removing masks using gloves and disinfecting hands before touching faces. There isn't necessarily a contradiction here in thinking masks could be effective for medical personnel but not the public. Although, as I have already said, I think they made a mistake. > If you're going to lie If you don't have the wit or politeness to enter a discussion without throwing insults around please find another forum to argue on.
jtc331 5y ago
Alternatively admitting that makes one look better than admitting “I didn’t know” or even “I was wrong”. The inability of public health officials to simply say “we got X wrong” when they pivot massively erodes trust; ironically admitting “we were wrong; we know better now” would have done the opposite: it would have increased trust.
baobabKoodaa 5y ago
> This is not true. I think Fauci etc. admitted that a reason masks weren't recommended early on was partly to conserve masks. That's quite different from the claim that they actively lied about them. You state that masks "weren't recommended" which indeed would be different from "recommending not to wear masks". However, Fauci didn't merely abstain from recommending masks, he actively recommended people not to wear masks. Yes, he actively lied about it, and he has openly admitted that he has lied about it. Now please stop spreading misinformation.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

Perhaps. But we had a pandemic during the Obama/Biden admin, but no stockpile of appropriate PPE, masks, etc. This was, we were told, the pro-science administration. Pandemics are such a common trope that Hollywood has made multiple (bad) movies revolving around them. Yet it appears we were unprepared for the basics. What Fauci said or why isn't important. The question we should be asking is: Why were in that position to begin with? We were warned - time and again - and each time that warning was ignored.

snomad 5y ago
> We were warned - time and again - and each time that warning was ignored. And at least in the US, their are 1000s of people receiving good money to take that warning seriously. And they still failed.
IgorPartola 5y ago
This is wrong. The Obama administration did quite a bit to prevent future pandemics and the Trump administration dismantled it all pretty much immediately. Three things come to mind: the pandemic playbook, the pandemic response office, and the public health observers in China that were all recalled under Trump.
- s5300 5y ago
  I love the reaction you get when you tell people there was literally something created & called “Pandemic Playbook” which was devised because they were expecting a pandemic in the next decade or two. & what happened to the Pandemic Playbook created by the 44th presidential administration? It was completely discarded by the 45th presidential administration. What proceeded to happen during the 45th presidential administration? A somewhat predicted pandemic. It’s too bad they didn’t have a playbook that told them step by step how to properly handle it…
  - chiefalchemist 5y ago
    And I love when ppl are so sucked into a particular narrative that they ignore the question being asked: Where were the stockpiles of appropriate equipment? Or did the playbook say such things would fall out of the sky, like manna from heaven? Fact: The 45th didn't discard them. In fact, the gov bought masks from Facebook and (I think) Google who did have a stockpile (but evidently not for pandemic purposes). You're loving the playbook but missing the fact that some basic and necessary execution never happened.
    - s5300 5y ago
      …sigh Feel free to use the search engine of your choice to search “US PPE Stockpile” & read any of the multiple credible articles that come up as the first results of the search. As it was known nearly immediately after COVID started, the stockpiles were mostly depleted - and what wasn’t depleted was mostly expired. This is why you saw pictures and videos of nurses demonstrating their supplied smocks disintegrating into dust as they put them on. The 45th administration had the responsibility to refresh the stockpiles, and they purposely chose not to. If you’re unaware of this, your snark is a bit funny as you appear to be the one suckered. Secondly: As for what the government bought after they remembered the stockpile is screwed, also for the small bit of it that was still useable. “The notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile. It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use,” - Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor, 45th Admin https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/3/21207140/jared-kushner-strategic-national-stockpile-ventilators https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4/3/21207140/jared-kus... So much to the point that at least one state had to buy shipments of PPE in secrecy & then guard the distribution of said shipments with their National Guard. Everything not done in secrecy or guarded was being “appropriated” by the Feds, for reasons not hard to imagine given the statement of the aforementioned advisor. There’s a lot more to it, but I digress. Somebody here is indeed a sucker - but I do not believe it is I.
      - chiefalchemist 5y ago
        So we had a stockpile that wasn't a stockpile, that wasn't effective? That ran out in no time at all? That's some great spin. Thanks.
- chiefalchemist 5y ago
  You're confused. Where did I mention "pandemic playbook"? It's a _very_ simple question: Dear Uncle Sam - Where were the stockpiles of appropriate supplies? That's it. We can move on to other discussions but let's start with the basics first.
Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
I heard a story about California preparing for the case of a pandemic in reaction to SARS many years ago (Schwarzenegger in 2006) stockpiling medical gear and building mobile hospitals that could be quickly moved to hotspots as disaster relief. The next governor (Brown in 2011) then cut funding to retain and renew it in an attempt to slim down the states budget.

Wiseacre 5y ago

"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus" - Surgeon General, Feb 29, 2020 Please stop spreading misinformation.

chimprich 5y ago
I am not spreading misinformation. Please don't throw accusations around. Previous Surgeon General Jerome Adams is not the same person as Fauci. I'm not in the USA, but looks like your surgeon general in Feb 2020 was not an ideal choice for the post. He sounds like a political Trump appointee. Even so, the full tweet read: "Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!" ...so it sounds like he was quite upfront about the idea that mask use was partly being discouraged to avoid pressure on sourcing masks for medical professionals.
- Wiseacre 5y ago
  The original point you argued against is if he lied, not if he lied for a good reason.
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  You can't even keep your own arguments straight. In grandparent post you stated "There seemed to be genuine uncertainty early on in the pandemic about whether masks would be helpful". In this post you are stating "mask use was partly being discouraged to avoid pressure on sourcing masks for medical professionals". So which is it? Were they recommending against mask use because masks are not helpful, or were they recommending against mask use because masks are so helpful that we actually need to conserve them for medical professionals? Which is it? If you're going to lie, at least make up a consistent story.
  - chimprich 5y ago
    > Were they recommending against mask use because masks are not helpful, or were they recommending against mask use because masks are so helpful that we actually need to conserve them for medical professionals? Masks are clearly going to be more effective when used by trained personnel in a clinical setting. For example, removing masks using gloves and disinfecting hands before touching faces. There isn't necessarily a contradiction here in thinking masks could be effective for medical personnel but not the public. Although, as I have already said, I think they made a mistake. > If you're going to lie If you don't have the wit or politeness to enter a discussion without throwing insults around please find another forum to argue on.

jtc331 5y ago

Alternatively admitting that makes one look better than admitting “I didn’t know” or even “I was wrong”. The inability of public health officials to simply say “we got X wrong” when they pivot massively erodes trust; ironically admitting “we were wrong; we know better now” would have done the opposite: it would have increased trust.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago

> This is not true. I think Fauci etc. admitted that a reason masks weren't recommended early on was partly to conserve masks. That's quite different from the claim that they actively lied about them. You state that masks "weren't recommended" which indeed would be different from "recommending not to wear masks". However, Fauci didn't merely abstain from recommending masks, he actively recommended people not to wear masks. Yes, he actively lied about it, and he has openly admitted that he has lied about it. Now please stop spreading misinformation.