4 ms·

Yeah, holding strong to the logic that's like a mom concluding of her kindergartner "You're being evasive, this means definitely that you're hiding something" i

Yeah, holding strong to the logic that's like a mom concluding of her kindergartner "You're being evasive, this means definitely that you're hiding something" is ridiculous. If the outbreak started in Colorado, and Russia wanted access to the CDC lab there, Americans (officials and public) would also be crying and screaming...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
If Russia wanted access to a CDC lab, the Americans would be crying and screaming regardless of whether something happened there or not.
- baq 5y ago
  Exactly. Same thing in the China-not China relations.
- cloverich 5y ago
  Said hypothetical should include the disease originating around the lab, numerous conspicuous coverups and missing people, and a lack of transparent investigation. Should such a scenario happen, I think your argument becomes a bit of a strawman (i.e. that a segment of every nation's population would always cry foul in said scenario). I would expect more than just Russia would want access, and likewise that plenty of US citizens would protest as well.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Why is it a strawman? If malfeasance is occurring, they will not want Russia looking at their lab, if malfeasance is not occurring, they still do not want Russia looking at their lab. I'm just pointing out the obvious, ((!A -> B) and (A -> B)) -> B.
    - eloisius 5y ago
      It’s also worth noting that you’re talking about the US allowing the country with whom they have the most adversarial relationship investigate their labs. In reality, we’re taking about international bodies doing the investigation. The fact that China has isolated themselves so badly that the best analogy for “anyone investigates China” is “Russia investigates the US” says plenty.
eloisius 5y ago
Firstly, we’re not talking about America right now. Even so, the US has its faults, but is vastly more transparent than the CCP. I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  God damn debating with you people is useless sometimes. My second paragraph is meant to show a possible other explanation why the Chinese didn't want foreigners snooping around their bio labs: in my belief the same evasiveness the Chinese has/had would apply to the USA if China wanted to visit and have unlimited access (for a thorough investigation) of American bio labs. And I'm not talking about whether American journalists would be arrested. I'm just talking about the evasiveness about the labs.
  - coupdejarnac 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    You've been breaking the site guidelines so badly and so repeatedly that I've banned this account. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29916895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29916895 for more.
- loup-vaillant 5y ago
  > I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak. The US are actively prosecuting a journalist on phony charges because he helped expose their war crimes, among other things. The UK is of course actively complicit, which contributed in making his life a living hell. Given that precedent, I wouldn't be shocked at all.
  - eloisius 5y ago
    And you'll read an endless trove of comments posted on this site, including from myself, in support of Assange and his work, and condemnation of what the US is doing to him. We shouldn't even be on this tangent, because the parent comment was nothing but "what about America!" and now we're veering into even more tangential territory with "well what about America with regards to some other topic!?" This isn't a Chuck Norris movie with a good guy and a bad guy.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

If Russia wanted access to a CDC lab, the Americans would be crying and screaming regardless of whether something happened there or not.

baq 5y ago
Exactly. Same thing in the China-not China relations.
cloverich 5y ago
Said hypothetical should include the disease originating around the lab, numerous conspicuous coverups and missing people, and a lack of transparent investigation. Should such a scenario happen, I think your argument becomes a bit of a strawman (i.e. that a segment of every nation's population would always cry foul in said scenario). I would expect more than just Russia would want access, and likewise that plenty of US citizens would protest as well.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  Why is it a strawman? If malfeasance is occurring, they will not want Russia looking at their lab, if malfeasance is not occurring, they still do not want Russia looking at their lab. I'm just pointing out the obvious, ((!A -> B) and (A -> B)) -> B.
  - eloisius 5y ago
    It’s also worth noting that you’re talking about the US allowing the country with whom they have the most adversarial relationship investigate their labs. In reality, we’re taking about international bodies doing the investigation. The fact that China has isolated themselves so badly that the best analogy for “anyone investigates China” is “Russia investigates the US” says plenty.

eloisius 5y ago

Firstly, we’re not talking about America right now. Even so, the US has its faults, but is vastly more transparent than the CCP. I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
God damn debating with you people is useless sometimes. My second paragraph is meant to show a possible other explanation why the Chinese didn't want foreigners snooping around their bio labs: in my belief the same evasiveness the Chinese has/had would apply to the USA if China wanted to visit and have unlimited access (for a thorough investigation) of American bio labs. And I'm not talking about whether American journalists would be arrested. I'm just talking about the evasiveness about the labs.
- coupdejarnac 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  You've been breaking the site guidelines so badly and so repeatedly that I've banned this account. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29916895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29916895 for more.
loup-vaillant 5y ago
> I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak. The US are actively prosecuting a journalist on phony charges because he helped expose their war crimes, among other things. The UK is of course actively complicit, which contributed in making his life a living hell. Given that precedent, I wouldn't be shocked at all.
- eloisius 5y ago
  And you'll read an endless trove of comments posted on this site, including from myself, in support of Assange and his work, and condemnation of what the US is doing to him. We shouldn't even be on this tangent, because the parent comment was nothing but "what about America!" and now we're veering into even more tangential territory with "well what about America with regards to some other topic!?" This isn't a Chuck Norris movie with a good guy and a bad guy.