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I don't expect it to be suspicious or odd _in China_. What I am saying is that internationally we should not just shrug it off as "aww, it just China, they're a
by eloisius 5y ago
I don't expect it to be suspicious or odd _in China_. What I am saying is that internationally we should not just shrug it off as "aww, it just China, they're always so sneaky and secretive even when it's nothing!" We should treat the situation as if they are indeed hiding something important every time, because otherwise, constantly acting suspiciously about everything is an effective strategy for them conceal anything important.
Barring foreign scientists, arresting journalists, and destroying evidence is always suspicious, even if they always do it, and it should always make people from open and free societies curious of why they are doing it, not shrug it off because it's the norm.
- theskypirate 5y agoSo should we just pretend to think that it's suspicious even though it doesn't seem suspicious, or do we really need to soak our minds in the void until we actually believe that it is? How many IQ points do I need to lose before I am no longer normalizing totalitarianism?
- lamontcg 5y agoIt is being used as proof that they leaked it from a lab, when it is just how societies built like China behave. You can't infer anything from normal behavior. It is similar to the way that Hussein's actions in blocking access to presidential palaces was considered to be highly suspicious and therefore proof that he was hiding his weapons program. Turns out he was just trying to save face domestically by standing up against the weapons inspectors over something that he considered symbolic and immaterial in order to not look like a total pushover (a desperate need of dictators). It had nothing to do with weapons programs at all.
- eloisius 5y agoDidn’t work out well for him.
- prox 5y agoAnd the search for WMD was also politically motivated, not based on any evidence afaik.
- bellyfullofbac 5y agoYeah, holding strong to the logic that's like a mom concluding of her kindergartner "You're being evasive, this means definitely that you're hiding something" is ridiculous. If the outbreak started in Colorado, and Russia wanted access to the CDC lab there, Americans (officials and public) would also be crying and screaming...
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoIf Russia wanted access to a CDC lab, the Americans would be crying and screaming regardless of whether something happened there or not.
- baq 5y agoExactly. Same thing in the China-not China relations.
- cloverich 5y agoSaid hypothetical should include the disease originating around the lab, numerous conspicuous coverups and missing people, and a lack of transparent investigation. Should such a scenario happen, I think your argument becomes a bit of a strawman (i.e. that a segment of every nation's population would always cry foul in said scenario). I would expect more than just Russia would want access, and likewise that plenty of US citizens would protest as well.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoWhy is it a strawman? If malfeasance is occurring, they will not want Russia looking at their lab, if malfeasance is not occurring, they still do not want Russia looking at their lab. I'm just pointing out the obvious, ((!A -> B) and (A -> B)) -> B.
- eloisius 5y agoIt’s also worth noting that you’re talking about the US allowing the country with whom they have the most adversarial relationship investigate their labs. In reality, we’re taking about international bodies doing the investigation. The fact that China has isolated themselves so badly that the best analogy for “anyone investigates China” is “Russia investigates the US” says plenty.