8 ms·

A single miner uses 1,300W (Antminer S9) and runs 24/7. That is 218,400Wh for a week. A gaming computer at ~400W, left on 24/7, is 67,200Wh. That assumes you a

A single miner uses 1,300W (Antminer S9) and runs 24/7. That is 218,400Wh for a week. A gaming computer at ~400W, left on 24/7, is 67,200Wh. That assumes you are playing 24/7 - your idle wattage in sleep is < 100W. If you run your dryer every night of the week for an hour, you are using about 38,400Wh. You can game 24/7 and dry your clothes every night of the week and STILL use less power than a modern, efficient single miner node. About 50% less! Bitcoin is a huge waste of electricity, and it is WAY worse than anything else you listed.

Tenoke 5y ago
It doesn't make sense to compare 1 person gaming or clothes drying to a specific mining machine. The consideration was about global bans and total outputs from those activities.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Bitcoin mining uses more power than the country of Sweden. [1] - https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-power-does-the-bitcoin-network-use-391280 https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-power-does-the-bitcoin-n...
  - Xylakant 5y ago
    I have no love for bitcoin, but I always hate this comparison. It’s useless. Sweden uses much more energy than it uses power (as pretty much every country) and it also exports power usage by buying finished products. Why is the power usage not compared to something useful? The power or rather energy usage of the global banking network for example?
    - chii 5y ago
      When people compare energy usage like that, they are making an implicit argument that the energy usage of bitcoin is a "waste". This is what i dislike about the argument that PoW should be banned - that it wastes energy that could otherwise have been used for something else. I argue that it is not a waste, because the person who is paying for the energy does not consider it a waste. No one else can make this judgement. The only weakness of this argument is that some energy sources have externalized the cost of emissions. I would very much like to see an emissions tax to account for it (which makes sense to do, regardless of one's position on PoW).
      - bavell 5y ago
        Agreed with the "waste" argument. I won't defend the huge power consumption but the energy spent is strictly useful in a utilitarian sense - every joule spent makes it that much harder to perform a 51% attack. Ideally, the energy used to secure the network is widely/evenly distributed among nodes for maximum security benefit (though not usually how it plays out). However, to say it's all a waste is just an emotional argument because you don't like it. That's fine but it's opinion, not objective fact.
  - dazeandconfuse 5y ago
    > When you put it all together, that’s a projection of 135.12 TWh in the year, or about as much power as is used annually by the country of Sweden I don't doubt that bitcoin miners use a lot of energy, but I hesitate to trust a source that doesn't know the difference between power and energy. Also, they're lying about the energy consumption of Sweden, which actually uses 645.7 TW/yr as of 2012 [0]. They number they quote is actually the electricity consumption of Sweden [1], which is like 5x lower. [0]: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+sweden+in+TWh+per+year https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+... [1]: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+sweden+in+TWh+per+year&assumption=%7B%22DPClash%22%2C+%22EnergyResourcePropertyP%22%2C+%22energy%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22ElectricityTotal%22%7D https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+...
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
Yes, but the real question always is: Who will make a decision as to what is considered frivolous. Not to search very far, I consider trucks in US for non-contractor use to be frivolous, but I don't go around telling people those need to be banned.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Trucks move people and items. Bitcoin allows us to buy porn, pot and run scams on a mostly centralized network.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Can you explain how it is centralized? Because… it isn’t.
    - ruined 5y ago
      there's only one blockchain
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Only one Bitcoin blockchain, correct. There are affinity scams like bcash and bsv that try to steal the name. The users/miners decided, in decentralized fashion by contributing resources. Decentralized!
      - bavell 5y ago
        Depends on if you count hard forks as new chains. Successful hard forks require decentralized consensus to follow the new chain.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      Lets say Coinbase and Paypal (both BTC processors) stop supporting your website. Do you think that you'll get as many BTC transactions if this happens?
WatchDog 5y ago
1000W+ power supplies are pretty common on the high end of gaming PC's, I've got a 1200W psu in my machine, as my old 750W PSU was shutting off when I upgraded my GPU. I don't know how many watts it's drawing during a resource intensive game, but it's gotta be a lot more than 400. I think I'll look into getting a wall plug power meter.
- Buttons840 5y ago
  RTX 3060 + 5950x CPU under load is like 400 to 450 watts, based on my power meter. That includes power to monitor and other peripherals as well. I agree with OP though, we're within an order of magnitude of other legit uses, so let people be free. Increase electricity costs or taxes if you want.
hartator 5y ago
> You can game 24/7 and dry your clothes every night of the week and STILL use less power than a modern, efficient single miner node. About 50% less! I think OP point still stands. This is comparable in term of "waste".
- newbie789 5y ago
pph 5y ago
A modern dryer uses less than 2 kWh for an 8kg run [0]. That means for those 38 kWh you need to run it daily for almost 3 weeks. Normal usage (let's say twice per week) would lead to ~3 kWh energy consumption. [0] Siemens WT47R400: 176 kWh / year for 160 cycles by energy label, 1.4 kWh for a full run.

Tenoke 5y ago

It doesn't make sense to compare 1 person gaming or clothes drying to a specific mining machine. The consideration was about global bans and total outputs from those activities.

vorpalhex 5y ago
Bitcoin mining uses more power than the country of Sweden. [1] - https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-power-does-the-bitcoin-network-use-391280 https://www.thebalance.com/how-much-power-does-the-bitcoin-n...
- Xylakant 5y ago
  I have no love for bitcoin, but I always hate this comparison. It’s useless. Sweden uses much more energy than it uses power (as pretty much every country) and it also exports power usage by buying finished products. Why is the power usage not compared to something useful? The power or rather energy usage of the global banking network for example?
  - chii 5y ago
    When people compare energy usage like that, they are making an implicit argument that the energy usage of bitcoin is a "waste". This is what i dislike about the argument that PoW should be banned - that it wastes energy that could otherwise have been used for something else. I argue that it is not a waste, because the person who is paying for the energy does not consider it a waste. No one else can make this judgement. The only weakness of this argument is that some energy sources have externalized the cost of emissions. I would very much like to see an emissions tax to account for it (which makes sense to do, regardless of one's position on PoW).
    - bavell 5y ago
      Agreed with the "waste" argument. I won't defend the huge power consumption but the energy spent is strictly useful in a utilitarian sense - every joule spent makes it that much harder to perform a 51% attack. Ideally, the energy used to secure the network is widely/evenly distributed among nodes for maximum security benefit (though not usually how it plays out). However, to say it's all a waste is just an emotional argument because you don't like it. That's fine but it's opinion, not objective fact.
- dazeandconfuse 5y ago
  > When you put it all together, that’s a projection of 135.12 TWh in the year, or about as much power as is used annually by the country of Sweden I don't doubt that bitcoin miners use a lot of energy, but I hesitate to trust a source that doesn't know the difference between power and energy. Also, they're lying about the energy consumption of Sweden, which actually uses 645.7 TW/yr as of 2012 [0]. They number they quote is actually the electricity consumption of Sweden [1], which is like 5x lower. [0]: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+sweden+in+TWh+per+year https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+... [1]: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+sweden+in+TWh+per+year&assumption=%7B%22DPClash%22%2C+%22EnergyResourcePropertyP%22%2C+%22energy%22%7D+-%3E+%7B%22ElectricityTotal%22%7D https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=energy+consumption+of+...

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

Yes, but the real question always is: Who will make a decision as to what is considered frivolous. Not to search very far, I consider trucks in US for non-contractor use to be frivolous, but I don't go around telling people those need to be banned.

vorpalhex 5y ago
Trucks move people and items. Bitcoin allows us to buy porn, pot and run scams on a mostly centralized network.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Can you explain how it is centralized? Because… it isn’t.
  - ruined 5y ago
    there's only one blockchain
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Only one Bitcoin blockchain, correct. There are affinity scams like bcash and bsv that try to steal the name. The users/miners decided, in decentralized fashion by contributing resources. Decentralized!
    - bavell 5y ago
      Depends on if you count hard forks as new chains. Successful hard forks require decentralized consensus to follow the new chain.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Lets say Coinbase and Paypal (both BTC processors) stop supporting your website. Do you think that you'll get as many BTC transactions if this happens?

WatchDog 5y ago

1000W+ power supplies are pretty common on the high end of gaming PC's, I've got a 1200W psu in my machine, as my old 750W PSU was shutting off when I upgraded my GPU. I don't know how many watts it's drawing during a resource intensive game, but it's gotta be a lot more than 400. I think I'll look into getting a wall plug power meter.

Buttons840 5y ago
RTX 3060 + 5950x CPU under load is like 400 to 450 watts, based on my power meter. That includes power to monitor and other peripherals as well. I agree with OP though, we're within an order of magnitude of other legit uses, so let people be free. Increase electricity costs or taxes if you want.

hartator 5y ago

> You can game 24/7 and dry your clothes every night of the week and STILL use less power than a modern, efficient single miner node. About 50% less! I think OP point still stands. This is comparable in term of "waste".

newbie789 5y ago

pph 5y ago

A modern dryer uses less than 2 kWh for an 8kg run [0]. That means for those 38 kWh you need to run it daily for almost 3 weeks. Normal usage (let's say twice per week) would lead to ~3 kWh energy consumption. [0] Siemens WT47R400: 176 kWh / year for 160 cycles by energy label, 1.4 kWh for a full run.