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What Defcon Sounds Like: Skyking Emergency Action Messages (2016)
- themodelplumber 5y ago> PLZT (Polarized Lead Zirconium Titanate) flash blindness goggles Wow, I've never seen those before. The appearance instantly brought to mind the Bith cantina band from Star Wars. :)
- xattt 5y agoI was thinking this might have been a primary source for the Storm Trooper helmet design.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- bendbro 5y agoWhy don't they use encryption? Wouldn't it be preferable for your messages to be completely inscrutable? [Edit] To clarify my question, I'm specifically talking about these unencrypted parts: 1. The number of "Skyking do not answer"s indicates the severity of the message. 2. The fact that it is known that messages to Skyking are for a nuclear force. I wouldn't want an adversary to know when or with what severity I am commanding my nuclear force. It leaks significant information that an adversary can use, for instance, to judge your response to some action the adversary took.
- jnwatson 5y agoJust like TLS, the payload is encrypted. The skyking stuff is just header. It has the advantage that there’s less to go wrong and doesn’t take sophisticated equipment to receive.
- Harvesterify 5y agoBut they do: "Salutation, trigraph, timestamp, authentication, and then a series of letters comprising the coded message."
- acapybara 5y ago"The messages are simply a series of letters, relayed in NATO phonetics, and encrypted with a one-time cypher. The receiver would need a code book (by varying reports refreshed daily, weekly, or monthly and inches thick) to identify the key and decrypt the message."
- joezydeco 5y agoThe article implies that the nuclear forces have already been deployed and targets set - this would be the final instruction to launch (the "go/no go" on that USAF cheat sheet). At that point there's not much to hide or encrypt.
- ericcumbee 5y agoFrom my understanding each bomber has a playbook so to speak along with the code book. each Play is a different target package. Just like in US football the message from Command to the bombers isn't the verbatim target package but just a code telling them which target package to select from their playbook.
- eob 5y agoWell, the payload is encrypted using OTPs. But if the gist of the question was really "why use such old tech when newer tech is available?": I suspect these methods of communication remain because of their robustness against attack and simplicity to implement. It's a guarantee that even if all the modern networks go down, commands can still be issued from anyone, to anyone using off-the-shelf hardware.
- 015a 5y agoPlus, you know, oftentimes the people commenting for the US nuclear defense systems to modernize are the same people who put Log4J everywhere they could (meaning: Silicon Valley engineers). Its funny how hypnotic the word "modernize" is; totally divorced from any measurable success outcomes. More efficient? Possibly. But as we learned with COVID; when you stress an Efficient system, it breaks. Militaries tend to be pretty highly stressed; and it would be best if they don't break. One thing is for certain: There is much the maintainers of these antiquated systems could learn from more recent engineering practices; but there is just as much we could learn from them.
- Jerrrry 5y agoKeep It Simple, Stupid Simple systems fail expectedly, complex systems fail catastrophically.
- euroderf 5y agoAnd, related: Fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe.
- RF_Savage 5y agoB-1's run K8s these days.
- treesknees 5y agoThey don’t. There was talk of a future plane potentially running it, probably as a part of R&D purposes. This rumor was generated from a single person posting on LinkedIn. Very different than the active US military running k8 on their bombers. https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/kubernetes_b_21_bomber/ https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/03/kubernetes_b_21_bombe... > The B-21 is expected to fly in 2025
- fatbird 5y agoThe content is encrypted with one-time pads that are constantly refreshed, which is entirely undecipherable through cryptanalysis. Encrypting the radio signal itself would require a much more extensive infrastructure than binders and radio receivers: specialized hardware that might be compromised or flawed, or simply break down, rendering you unable to listen to the channel over which your critical orders might come; harder to audit as well with more moving parts and components that aren't easily inspected or tested. This seems like a case of a very simple and robust system being more than sufficient for the task, and anything more complex is a waste of time and money.
- goodluckchuck 5y agoSometimes you want a communication to be public, loud, and undeniable, even if you don't want it to be understood by all. It makes it difficult to later deny that the order was given, it'll be recorded many times over by friend and foe alike. Recipients can possibly confirm that their counterparts are also receiving consistent orders.
- bendbro 5y agoYou were the sole person who understood my poorly worded question. How did you come to the correct interpretation of my question, given information was missing from my question? Did you assume that I realized the content of Skyking messages is encrypted, and then deduce that my question must relate to the other unencrypted parts?
- Terry_Roll 5y agoLike the Radio 4 Doomsday protocol? https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1528497/bbc-radio-4-today-programme-off-air-doomsday-protocol-nuclear-war-shipping-forecast-spt https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1528497/bbc-radio...
- aerostable_slug 5y agoThat cheatsheet is not accurate. The number of "skyking"s do not have anything to do with priority/severity. Further, SIOP was not strictly speaking retired — it was renamed, most recently to OPLAN 8010-12. I would take the linked page with a very large grain of salt.
- woah 5y agoPresumably the adversary has already launched an easily detectable nuclear attack themselves so they know something is up
- DocTomoe 5y agoFor a good explanation on why you don't want these things to be too high-tech and too encrypted, see "Doctor Strangelove", and take particular notice about the roles played by CRM-114.
- chiph 5y agoThe salutation is not encrypted because it's designed to attract the attention of the radio operators on the plane. They need a few moments to grab their pens to write down the message that follows so they aren't going to miss any characters. So far as leaking information - by the time these are sent as real-world communications (i.e. not as a test or during training), the planes are nearing their target. So it won't matter for much longer if the enemy knows, since the positions of the planes are (hopefully) unknown.
- tablespoon 5y ago> Why don't they use encryption? Wouldn't it be preferable for your messages to be completely inscrutable? They don't? The letters read out in a phonetic alphabet are most certainly a code that's completely inscrutable without a codebook, which is probably rotated frequently. Encryption like we use it (e.g. encode arbitrary messages) is probably unnecessary and too complicated. All they're probably trying to do is transmit an authenticated order to execute an action that's been agreed upon ahead of time.
- Terry_Roll 5y agoIts a number station of sorts, more can be found explaining them on wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station) and youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQbQTv3aMkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQbQTv3aMkU) (loads on youtube) I think the reason they have disappeared is because of the satellite coverage seen today, so people need to look in new places to find them.
- ericcumbee 5y agoA clearly defined format probably prevents something like "Where is Task Force 34 the world wonders" from happening.
- edm0nd 5y agoNot gunna lie, defcon sounds pretty awesome and the callsign of SKYKING is pretty freaking amazing and dystopian sounding.
- themodelplumber 5y agoI think the writers of the film WarGames liked it too. They seemed to imitate the call with the phrase "Skybird calling Dropkick" in an impressive radio DJ voice. I noticed that GMRS radio IDs also have these effects on people sometimes. When I call with my ID in a place like Yosemite I'll hear other people on their FRS radios ask if they have a cool ID too. (Not that I think it is cool, but it's certainly different...and I think most prefer it to calling family and friends by name on a public radio band)
- aerostable_slug 5y agoThe Wargames RED DASH ALPHA MESSAGE bit has some relation to real life. There were RED DOT and BLUE DOT messages back in the old days (though that was in the encrypted payload, not the preamble) [0]. [0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-02-25/how-strategic-air-command-would-go-nuclear-war https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-0...
- a-dub 5y agoTURN YOUR KEY, SIR. click-click
- encoderer 5y agoThose flash blindness goggles are a terrifying reminder of how much effort we have put into delivering weapons of mass destruction.
- DocTomoe 5y agoI think the real lesson is how much effort we put into making bomber crews believe they would return from their bombing runs alive, to functioning airfields, to be used again if necessary.
- ceejayoz 5y agoBeing able to see the instruments, target, etc. during a nuclear war has value even if you're not coming back.
- aerostable_slug 5y agoMany aircraft were well aware that they were headed to recovery bases in countries like Turkey, and that their home air base was almost certainly a radiating ruin. SAC reconstitution teams would meet them to refuel & rearm — in theory. A friend's dad was an F-4 pilot and sat on nuclear alert on a carrier in the Med. If the alert a/c (armed with nuclear weapons) were sortied, they were instructed to find a NATO airfield to land at because their carrier was almost certainly at the bottom of the ocean by the time they hit their targets and started their return journey.
- wrycoder 5y agoVictor Alert: 15 Minutes to Armageddon: The Memoir of a Nuke Wild Weasel Pilot Major General Lee Downer, United States Air Force Academy, 1964, served 33 years active duty in the Air Force-14 years in Europe, 2 in the Pacific. Commander, at Squadron and Wing level, he flew almost 4000 hours in F-4, F-111 and F-16 fighters, including over 150 combat missions with the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing based at Danang, South Viet Nam. In 1991 he Commanded Air Forces (AFFOR) and the 7440th Combat Wing based at Incirlik Air Base during Operation Desert Storm. A fully qualified "Gypsy" member of the 81st Tactical Fighter Squadron 1969-1973-Hahn, Zweibrucken and Spangdahlem Air Bases
- lxe 5y agoI randomly ran into an EAM in progress when scanning the frequencies with an RTL-SDR. Felt like Fox Mulder.
- fizwhiz 5y agoFond memories of watching that show.
- cylinder714 5y agoHF-GCS (High Frequency Global Communications System) uses a variety of frequencies, but if memory serves, the two primary frequencies that are always used are 8992 kHz (better for night propagation) and 11175 kHz (day propagation). If you're using one of the receivers listed at websdr.org you might try those for a start. If you're in northern California and in need of a day trip, drive on Interstate 80 to the town of Dixon and head south on Highway 113 towards Rio Vista. Eventually you'll see a pair of very tall antenna towers. I'm pretty sure those are the "West Coast" HF-GCS transmitting towers, with the receiving antennas located further east near Lincoln. (And if you're up for a great burger and shake, Dave's Giant Hamburger in nearby Fairfield will set you straight. (Be sure to ask for the hot sauce.))
- tablespoon 5y agoIs that MP3 actual raw recordings, or has it been "enhanced" with interesting interference. I'm hearing lots of echo, telemetry, different voiced "layered" on top of each other, etc.
- norvvryo 5y agoThe "echo" is actually from multiple spatially separated stations simultaneously transmitting the same message. You're hearing the differences in time of flight. The overlapping signals don't interfere as one might expect because they use single sideband modulation.
- topspin 5y ago> interesting interference There is a lot of interesting interference at these low frequencies. I didn't hear anything I wouldn't expect to hear on HF. Also, echo is a complex and somewhat mysterious topic. Long Path echo is easily grasped; the same signal is received twice due to two paths around the Earth which happens when band conditions are favorable. Other forms of echo (Long delayed echo[1], for example) are less easily explained. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo This USAF HF system uses a lot of power (4+ kilowatts) and very good antennas, so they're prone to experience these effects.
- belimawr 5y agoThere hasn't been a Skyking recorded since October 2019, see this last recorded Skyking transmission: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ORIHrpgOU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ORIHrpgOU An example of an unusually long emergency action message recorded on March 2021: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdiudqqfkLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdiudqqfkLs
- sterlind 5y agothat EAM had a weird number of repeated characters in it, more than I'd expect by chance if my ears aren't deceiving me. I thought they used a one-time pad, don't they?
- fennecfoxen 5y agoHahahaha. I know why this was posted, and it's someone who read this comment chain: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896326 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29896326
- ggm 5y agoI visited somewhere which I think was BNFL labs, or a like company in Scotland in the 70s on a schools science visit. They demonstrated some very cool tech, including electronically triggered anti flash glasses. They were still in trial, and flashed white not black but triggered incredibly rapidly. I remember them doing a demo with an SLR camera flashgun. Nice to see the real McCoy They also showed us NMR machines and talked about getting permission to dredge up iron from the German fleet in scapa flow (orkneys) to make low background radiation measurement chambers. The entire smelting path had to be based on old metal and like to avoid contamination.
- skunkworker 5y agoThese googles? PLZT (Polarized Lead Zirconium Titanate) https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7975/this-is-what-usaf-bomber-pilots-would-wear-during-a-nuclear-apocalypse https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7975/this-is-what-usaf...
- ggm 5y agoWasn't fully made up. More like ski goggles hooked up to an electronic box, and they flashed white. Maybe '76 or '77
- King-Aaron 5y agoBrings to mind this old(er) video of a mock bbc reporting of a nuclear exchange between russia and nato: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cAZZR_Jki0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cAZZR_Jki0