14 ms·

> Turns out, you can’t. From what I could gather, the version of Chrome was tied to ChromeOS which couldn’t be updated because of the hardware. No new ChromeOS

by skulk 5y ago

> Turns out, you can’t. From what I could gather, the version of Chrome was tied to ChromeOS which couldn’t be updated because of the hardware. No new ChromeOS meant no new Chrome which meant stuck at version 76. This is the most surprising part of the article. If ChromeOS does not allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support, I would recommend it to nobody, ever.

sokoloff 5y ago
To me, that depends on the length of support for ChromeOS on a piece of hardware. If it’s say 10 years in total and 7 years from date of last sale-as-new, I’m okay with it.
- markstos 5y ago
  ChromeOS used support laptops for 5 to 6 years, while now it's 8 years. Meanwhile, the average lifespan of a laptop is 8 years. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/02/07/chromebooks-will-now-get-up-to-eight-years-of-chrome-os-updates/ https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=average%20laptop%20lifespan
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    While I’d like ten, eight is probably good enough for me. I just bought a new Chromebook for $92 all-in (low-end, obviously). At around $1/mo for the length of OS support, that seems fair enough to me. Even $4-5/mo for a nice one would be OK for most people.
    - ErikCorry 5y ago
      It's perhaps eight from when the Chromebook was launched, not from when you bought it at a fire-sale price. Check here: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en#zippy=%2Casus https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en#zip...
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        Thanks for the pointer to that, which prompted me to go look in Settings:About Chrome OS:Additional Details where retail Chromebooks list their end of automatic updates date. For my device, it's June 2026, so a little under $2/mo for the utility is still well worth it and hard to complain about on a value-for-money basis, but half as much as I thought I was buying, so I agree with a sibling post that that information should be much more readily available to consumers prior to purchase.
        ErikCorry 5y ago
        That's a very good price for a 2026 Chromebook - lets hope Google gets their shit together and extends the life beyond what is promised.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  The really important part imo: We need labelling of products that way. Nowadays "everything" is connected to the internet and I as a consumer have no chance to predict how long I will be able to use a product. The vendor has to give a guarantee and put it in a box (and probably get an insurance so they can't simply close one company and continue under a new name every other week ...)
mc32 5y ago
It’s odd that today Google (in this case) but others as well, can get away with more than Microsoft did in the late ‘90s but the DoJ doesn’t make a peep.
- otherotherchris 5y ago
  ChromeOS currently has a 3% market share. Microsoft had 95% during the end of the Clinton administration. Google's consumer hostile behavior is kneecapping any chance they have at future market dominance, it's entirely self correcting.
  - santoshalper 5y ago
    I hope you're right. It feels like Google has an awful lot of power over the future of the internet a the moment.
    - jimbokun 5y ago
      Yes, but ChromeOS is a relatively minor part of that power. Controlling search, Android, Chrome as the dominant browser, and YouTube are much bigger parts of their power over the Internet than ChromeOS.
      - opan 5y ago
        ChromeOS also appears heavily at school where kids are now growing up being forced to use it. (Not going for a "think of the children" thing, more like imprinting) I think there's a Google Classroom thing as well.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Much of the case rested on how tightly the browser was woven into Windows —that MS was preventing competition in the browser space (via the strong arming tactics) but the “bad thing” they did was the tight browser integration.
    - 5y ago
judge2020 5y ago
This is generally because ChromeOS isn't just an OS based on Chrome - Chrome itself is the OS, supported by how the OS portion is just a folder in the chromium/src tree[0]. Edit: looks like there's now an effort to separate them, as the readme says. see [1]. 0: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/main/chromeos/ https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/... 1: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/heads/main/docs/lacros.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/he...
modeless 5y ago
iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. In general, Chrome OS devices have 6-8 years of support, while iOS seems to have ~7. But in the case of Chrome OS this is likely to be fixed soon because Chrome is getting unbundled from Chrome OS, meaning it can be updated separately. This is codenamed Lacros and is in testing now. Devices currently receiving updates are likely to get it. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separating-chrome-from-chrome-os-its-a-big-deal-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separatin... Also, Chrome OS devices explicitly support unlocking and installing alternative OSes. If you don't like what Google does with Chrome OS you can install Linux or Windows instead and keep using your hardware as long as you like.
- core-utility 5y ago
  Phones are a bit more of a commodity than laptops/desktops are, I think primarily because of the strong evolution you see in comparison over the same timeframe. A laptop from 7-8 years ago largely still is capable of running the latest software (and most of the time Operating Systems), while an 8 year old phone hardly has the performance to do either with the advancements that have been made.
  - _trampeltier 5y ago
    I also bought a new phone for my mom just because, the latest android update was 2017 and some apps did not work any longer, so we bought a new phone. The phone was still in a pretty good shape and the battery too. She just used here phone very rarely.
  - loosescrews 5y ago
    Note that the average price of an iPhone is higher than the average price of a Chromebook.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    You only think that because that's what we've let transpire. It's a disgrace that I can not use my iPhone or Android phone to easily create new software, only consume. They're more than powerful enough to fully replace most computer usage including software development. But no, we've let them normalize locking the OS, and hiding the file system. Its an absolute disgrace.
LocalPCGuy 5y ago
This right here - was about to recommend a ChromeOS device for my father-in-law but this gives me significant pause.
- opan 5y ago
  Maybe consider a Pinebook Pro instead, depending on needs. It's in a similar class, but without being locked down.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    Interesting machine! "Due to global electronic components shortage , Pinebook Pro currently out of stock until further notice."
tragictrash 5y ago
It looks like this has been identified as a problem and is being addressed. It's interesting to see that it has not been fully implemented. https://9to5google.com/2020/09/14/google-chrome-os-separate-browser-updates/ https://9to5google.com/2020/09/14/google-chrome-os-separate-... > Update 9/14: After nearly five months, LaCrOS has surfaced in a working state on Chrome OS Canary, as spotted by Chrome Unboxed. By enabling the above-mentioned flag in chrome://flags, a new “LaCrOS” app will appear in your app list, first in grey, then in the usual yellow of Chrome Canary.
ocdtrekkie 5y ago
The irony here is that the best way to buy a device for Chrome is to buy a Windows laptop and install Chrome on it... Google will support it far longer than they'll support their own products. Chrome support for Windows 7 has been extended into 2023, which is an OS released in 2009.
phil294 5y ago
Same thing with Android - while you can certainly still upgrade your apps, your OS won't, as most manufacturers want you to buy a new phone after a certain period of time (2 years, usually). I really hope to see an EU regulation to put an end to this consumer-hostile behavior some day.
autokad 5y ago
I know, the author was completely wrong. While the web dev did a mistake, it was not as egregious as the manufacturers locking his mom into a corner.
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  The dev made a mistake by having a Javascript error totally break the site. Websites should still be functional (even if a bit inconvenient) without Javascript.
  - autokad 5y ago
    No. Stop defending bad practice. its conceivable there are new functions that are not backwards compatible. At some point you need to be able to update your browser. its the fact she is locked out from doing that is what puts her in the pickle. Google and Apple made sure she can't get a new browser so that she would purchase a new device. period.
    - null_object 5y ago
      > Apple made sure she can't get a new browser so that she would purchase a new device. period. Just bullshit. There are plenty of browsers being updated and fully compatible with iOS 12.
      - LinAGKar 5y ago
        Not, there isn't, because no one else is allowed to make a browser for iOS. Any other "browser" on there is just a reskin of the built-in Safari.
      - autokad 5y ago
        did you even read the article?
    - neon_electro 5y ago
      Arguing that websites should support the least common denominator of functionality and then progressively enhance for modern functionality is not simultaneously defending corporations' planned obsolescence. Both problems can be solved independently.
easton 5y ago
This has become enough of a problem that Google is working on decoupling the "system" version of Chrome (used for login window, settings, etc) from the browser that users interact with directly on Chrome OS, making it so you can keep using the device safely after its EOL date (which is 6 or 8 years now I think). Here[0] is a little documentation about it, but if you want to use the decoupled browser, it looks like you can enable it via chrome://flags if you are on a recent version (which OP's mom isn't, and since her device isn't going to get patched I doubt she'll benefit from this). 0: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/heads/main/docs/lacros.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/he...
- captn3m0 5y ago
  This sounds like the same problem that manifested with Android and resulted in Treble.
- krony 5y ago
  Reminds me of how we bought a Chromebook in 2016, and specifically got a version that was "planned" to be allowed to run Android apps (which was a new thing at the time). Fast forward to 2022, and the ASUS C201 support for Android is still "planned" and unsupported. https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-supporting-android-apps https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-suppo... Feels like a big con just to get people to buy chromebooks in 2016 at this point. Also, a reminder to not trust Google if they "plan" something like the upcoming Chrome "Lacros" decoupling
  - y4mi 5y ago
    my acer chromebook from 2015 got support. i dont think the fault is entirely with google here, asus shouldn't have marketed it as that, considering your chromebook had an arm processor - great for battery life, but google really only implemented the docker/shell and android support for intel cpus. really unfortunate though
    - notreallyserio 5y ago
spankalee 5y ago
ChromeOS is addressing this with LaCros - a separately installable version of Chrome that runs on top of ChromeOS. The goal being exactly to be able to update Chrome when the underlying ChromeOS can't be updated. https://www.slashgear.com/chrome-os-to-replace-chrome-with-lacros-as-primary-browser-18664497/ https://www.slashgear.com/chrome-os-to-replace-chrome-with-l...
umvi 5y ago
When my ChromeOS reached EoL, I installed GalliumOS (https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/) onto my chromebook. Works like a charm.
rekoil 5y ago
What happened in this article reinforces my belief that devices marketed as "general purpose" devices _must_ allow users to, in some way, run their own software on them "unrestricted" (standard sandboxing of course, mostly the same rules as App Store apps, just none of the application class rules or arbitrary API access restrictions). In the case of ChromeOS they do allow you to install Linux which satisfies this on paper (and to me, but perhaps not everyone?), however the iPad does not allow this in any way (the App Store, as pointed out by the author, explicitly disallows browsers), and I think there needs to be regulations on makers of devices that are classed as "general purpose computing devices".
- alisonkisk 5y ago
- erichocean 5y ago
  You can install your own browser on your own iOS device, you simply can't distribute it through the App Store.
  - rekoil 5y ago
    Not really, you can only do that for 7 days at a time, unless each device owner pays $99 yearly, and even then there's no simple and obvious way to do it.
  - LinAGKar 5y ago
    No you can't (unless you jailbreak)
    - null_object 5y ago
      - rekoil 5y ago
        > you can install one of the numerous alternative browsers that are available and updated for iOS 12 Those "browsers" are more like skins, they can't actually modify how websites are rendered or how JavaScript is executed. So no, the article is correct, you can't install actual browsers from the App Store. Fun fact: Because of this fact, for a brief moment in history Google actually purposefully caused Google Chrome on iOS to crash when they detected that JavaScript on a site was attempting to perform a uXSS attack[1], because they couldn't actually stop the attack since that would require modifying WebKit. [1]: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=841105 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=841105
veeti 5y ago
A similar thing happened with the Let's Encrypt root certificate expiration a couple months back. Because trusted certificates can't be updated on EOL devices, otherwise perfectly functional websites and apps just stopped working overnight. What a waste.
- rekoil 5y ago
  I think you can install root certificates on iOS using .mobileconfig profiles, so this issue should be possible to fix.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jrochkind1 5y ago
This was an eye-opener for me too. As a web dev, I had been thinking "there's no reason anyone would be running anything but the latest version of Chrome" -- but here's a reason. Should we be trying to support old versions of Chrome? The author thinks so. > This is a problem with the people who make that website. They should be making their website’s code more accessible to legacy devices. I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Where do we draw the line? Most tools oriented towards helping you do legacy browser support (like caniuse) don't even have UI's oriented toward helping you figure out what version of Chrome is when and where a good line to draw might be. (At what point would the OP author think we could stop transpiling down to ES5? Literally never?) Just cause I'm curious... Version 76 is what his mom's chromebook had. When did that come out? Looks like July 20 2019. So about 2.5 years ago. But this does make me re-think what appropriate browser support policy should be... mostly I just have questions not answers though. The author was so clear that it was the websites fault and they should be supporting this 2.5 year-old Chrome... I'm curious what other HN readers are doing, is anyone testing on or making sure to support this kind of old "evergreen" browsers, and if so how?
- jimminy 5y ago
  As someone who started doing web development in 2003-2004, I've always aimed for a 5 year support window. This is largely because of how long IE6-IE8 upgrades took for many SMB's and governments to upgrade from in those days. Back then browsers updated closer to 2-4 times a year, with far lower inertia in how drastic the changes would be. You could learn and mostly remember what features were safe for roughly that period. These days, I tend to look at feature release dates and support on CanIUse or MDN, to see if somethings been in broad use for the past 4-5 years.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    Thanks for response! So are you looking at Chrome (and Firefox) back to 4-5 years past (via caniuse?), and not using something if they don't support it back that far? (at least ES6 is, generally, in all current browsers (not IE) as of more than 4 years back at this point. But are you delivering ES6 to browsers, or still limiting yourself to ES5?)
tmvnty 5y ago
This was the exact issue with my parent: Chrome wasn't updating because their out-of-dated hardware and I had to tell them switch to Firefox "the red fox on globe icon" to use the internet. This lasted until the day I finally convinced them to buy a new PC.
pdonis 5y ago
Looks like my instinct to avoid Chromebooks like the plague was a good one...

by skulk 5y ago

sokoloff 5y ago

To me, that depends on the length of support for ChromeOS on a piece of hardware. If it’s say 10 years in total and 7 years from date of last sale-as-new, I’m okay with it.

markstos 5y ago
ChromeOS used support laptops for 5 to 6 years, while now it's 8 years. Meanwhile, the average lifespan of a laptop is 8 years. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/02/07/chromebooks-will-now-get-up-to-eight-years-of-chrome-os-updates/ https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=average%20laptop%20lifespan
- sokoloff 5y ago
  While I’d like ten, eight is probably good enough for me. I just bought a new Chromebook for $92 all-in (low-end, obviously). At around $1/mo for the length of OS support, that seems fair enough to me. Even $4-5/mo for a nice one would be OK for most people.
  - ErikCorry 5y ago
    It's perhaps eight from when the Chromebook was launched, not from when you bought it at a fire-sale price. Check here: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en#zippy=%2Casus https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366?hl=en#zip...
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      Thanks for the pointer to that, which prompted me to go look in Settings:About Chrome OS:Additional Details where retail Chromebooks list their end of automatic updates date. For my device, it's June 2026, so a little under $2/mo for the utility is still well worth it and hard to complain about on a value-for-money basis, but half as much as I thought I was buying, so I agree with a sibling post that that information should be much more readily available to consumers prior to purchase.
      - ErikCorry 5y ago
        That's a very good price for a 2026 Chromebook - lets hope Google gets their shit together and extends the life beyond what is promised.
johannes1234321 5y ago
The really important part imo: We need labelling of products that way. Nowadays "everything" is connected to the internet and I as a consumer have no chance to predict how long I will be able to use a product. The vendor has to give a guarantee and put it in a box (and probably get an insurance so they can't simply close one company and continue under a new name every other week ...)

mc32 5y ago

It’s odd that today Google (in this case) but others as well, can get away with more than Microsoft did in the late ‘90s but the DoJ doesn’t make a peep.

otherotherchris 5y ago
ChromeOS currently has a 3% market share. Microsoft had 95% during the end of the Clinton administration. Google's consumer hostile behavior is kneecapping any chance they have at future market dominance, it's entirely self correcting.
- santoshalper 5y ago
  I hope you're right. It feels like Google has an awful lot of power over the future of the internet a the moment.
  - jimbokun 5y ago
    Yes, but ChromeOS is a relatively minor part of that power. Controlling search, Android, Chrome as the dominant browser, and YouTube are much bigger parts of their power over the Internet than ChromeOS.
    - opan 5y ago
      ChromeOS also appears heavily at school where kids are now growing up being forced to use it. (Not going for a "think of the children" thing, more like imprinting) I think there's a Google Classroom thing as well.
- mc32 5y ago
  Much of the case rested on how tightly the browser was woven into Windows —that MS was preventing competition in the browser space (via the strong arming tactics) but the “bad thing” they did was the tight browser integration.
  - 5y ago

judge2020 5y ago

This is generally because ChromeOS isn't just an OS based on Chrome - Chrome itself is the OS, supported by how the OS portion is just a folder in the chromium/src tree[0]. Edit: looks like there's now an effort to separate them, as the readme says. see [1]. 0: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/main/chromeos/ https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/refs/heads/... 1: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/heads/main/docs/lacros.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/he...

modeless 5y ago

iOS also doesn't allow the browser to be updated after the hardware has reached end-of-support. In general, Chrome OS devices have 6-8 years of support, while iOS seems to have ~7. But in the case of Chrome OS this is likely to be fixed soon because Chrome is getting unbundled from Chrome OS, meaning it can be updated separately. This is codenamed Lacros and is in testing now. Devices currently receiving updates are likely to get it. https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separating-chrome-from-chrome-os-its-a-big-deal-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/09/12/google-is-separatin... Also, Chrome OS devices explicitly support unlocking and installing alternative OSes. If you don't like what Google does with Chrome OS you can install Linux or Windows instead and keep using your hardware as long as you like.

core-utility 5y ago
Phones are a bit more of a commodity than laptops/desktops are, I think primarily because of the strong evolution you see in comparison over the same timeframe. A laptop from 7-8 years ago largely still is capable of running the latest software (and most of the time Operating Systems), while an 8 year old phone hardly has the performance to do either with the advancements that have been made.
- _trampeltier 5y ago
  I also bought a new phone for my mom just because, the latest android update was 2017 and some apps did not work any longer, so we bought a new phone. The phone was still in a pretty good shape and the battery too. She just used here phone very rarely.
- loosescrews 5y ago
  Note that the average price of an iPhone is higher than the average price of a Chromebook.
- fartcannon 5y ago
  You only think that because that's what we've let transpire. It's a disgrace that I can not use my iPhone or Android phone to easily create new software, only consume. They're more than powerful enough to fully replace most computer usage including software development. But no, we've let them normalize locking the OS, and hiding the file system. Its an absolute disgrace.

LocalPCGuy 5y ago

This right here - was about to recommend a ChromeOS device for my father-in-law but this gives me significant pause.

opan 5y ago
Maybe consider a Pinebook Pro instead, depending on needs. It's in a similar class, but without being locked down.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Interesting machine! "Due to global electronic components shortage , Pinebook Pro currently out of stock until further notice."

tragictrash 5y ago

It looks like this has been identified as a problem and is being addressed. It's interesting to see that it has not been fully implemented. https://9to5google.com/2020/09/14/google-chrome-os-separate-browser-updates/ https://9to5google.com/2020/09/14/google-chrome-os-separate-... > Update 9/14: After nearly five months, LaCrOS has surfaced in a working state on Chrome OS Canary, as spotted by Chrome Unboxed. By enabling the above-mentioned flag in chrome://flags, a new “LaCrOS” app will appear in your app list, first in grey, then in the usual yellow of Chrome Canary.

ocdtrekkie 5y ago

The irony here is that the best way to buy a device for Chrome is to buy a Windows laptop and install Chrome on it... Google will support it far longer than they'll support their own products. Chrome support for Windows 7 has been extended into 2023, which is an OS released in 2009.

phil294 5y ago

Same thing with Android - while you can certainly still upgrade your apps, your OS won't, as most manufacturers want you to buy a new phone after a certain period of time (2 years, usually). I really hope to see an EU regulation to put an end to this consumer-hostile behavior some day.

autokad 5y ago

I know, the author was completely wrong. While the web dev did a mistake, it was not as egregious as the manufacturers locking his mom into a corner.

theandrewbailey 5y ago
The dev made a mistake by having a Javascript error totally break the site. Websites should still be functional (even if a bit inconvenient) without Javascript.
- autokad 5y ago
  No. Stop defending bad practice. its conceivable there are new functions that are not backwards compatible. At some point you need to be able to update your browser. its the fact she is locked out from doing that is what puts her in the pickle. Google and Apple made sure she can't get a new browser so that she would purchase a new device. period.
  - null_object 5y ago
    > Apple made sure she can't get a new browser so that she would purchase a new device. period. Just bullshit. There are plenty of browsers being updated and fully compatible with iOS 12.
    - LinAGKar 5y ago
      Not, there isn't, because no one else is allowed to make a browser for iOS. Any other "browser" on there is just a reskin of the built-in Safari.
    - autokad 5y ago
      did you even read the article?
  - neon_electro 5y ago
    Arguing that websites should support the least common denominator of functionality and then progressively enhance for modern functionality is not simultaneously defending corporations' planned obsolescence. Both problems can be solved independently.

easton 5y ago

This has become enough of a problem that Google is working on decoupling the "system" version of Chrome (used for login window, settings, etc) from the browser that users interact with directly on Chrome OS, making it so you can keep using the device safely after its EOL date (which is 6 or 8 years now I think). Here[0] is a little documentation about it, but if you want to use the decoupled browser, it looks like you can enable it via chrome://flags if you are on a recent version (which OP's mom isn't, and since her device isn't going to get patched I doubt she'll benefit from this). 0: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/heads/main/docs/lacros.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/refs/he...

captn3m0 5y ago
This sounds like the same problem that manifested with Android and resulted in Treble.
krony 5y ago
Reminds me of how we bought a Chromebook in 2016, and specifically got a version that was "planned" to be allowed to run Android apps (which was a new thing at the time). Fast forward to 2022, and the ASUS C201 support for Android is still "planned" and unsupported. https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-supporting-android-apps https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-suppo... Feels like a big con just to get people to buy chromebooks in 2016 at this point. Also, a reminder to not trust Google if they "plan" something like the upcoming Chrome "Lacros" decoupling
- y4mi 5y ago
  my acer chromebook from 2015 got support. i dont think the fault is entirely with google here, asus shouldn't have marketed it as that, considering your chromebook had an arm processor - great for battery life, but google really only implemented the docker/shell and android support for intel cpus. really unfortunate though
  - notreallyserio 5y ago

spankalee 5y ago

ChromeOS is addressing this with LaCros - a separately installable version of Chrome that runs on top of ChromeOS. The goal being exactly to be able to update Chrome when the underlying ChromeOS can't be updated. https://www.slashgear.com/chrome-os-to-replace-chrome-with-lacros-as-primary-browser-18664497/ https://www.slashgear.com/chrome-os-to-replace-chrome-with-l...

umvi 5y ago

When my ChromeOS reached EoL, I installed GalliumOS (https://galliumos.org/ https://galliumos.org/) onto my chromebook. Works like a charm.

rekoil 5y ago

What happened in this article reinforces my belief that devices marketed as "general purpose" devices _must_ allow users to, in some way, run their own software on them "unrestricted" (standard sandboxing of course, mostly the same rules as App Store apps, just none of the application class rules or arbitrary API access restrictions). In the case of ChromeOS they do allow you to install Linux which satisfies this on paper (and to me, but perhaps not everyone?), however the iPad does not allow this in any way (the App Store, as pointed out by the author, explicitly disallows browsers), and I think there needs to be regulations on makers of devices that are classed as "general purpose computing devices".

alisonkisk 5y ago
erichocean 5y ago
You can install your own browser on your own iOS device, you simply can't distribute it through the App Store.
- rekoil 5y ago
  Not really, you can only do that for 7 days at a time, unless each device owner pays $99 yearly, and even then there's no simple and obvious way to do it.
- LinAGKar 5y ago
  No you can't (unless you jailbreak)
  - null_object 5y ago
    - rekoil 5y ago
      > you can install one of the numerous alternative browsers that are available and updated for iOS 12 Those "browsers" are more like skins, they can't actually modify how websites are rendered or how JavaScript is executed. So no, the article is correct, you can't install actual browsers from the App Store. Fun fact: Because of this fact, for a brief moment in history Google actually purposefully caused Google Chrome on iOS to crash when they detected that JavaScript on a site was attempting to perform a uXSS attack[1], because they couldn't actually stop the attack since that would require modifying WebKit. [1]: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=841105 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=841105

veeti 5y ago

A similar thing happened with the Let's Encrypt root certificate expiration a couple months back. Because trusted certificates can't be updated on EOL devices, otherwise perfectly functional websites and apps just stopped working overnight. What a waste.

rekoil 5y ago
I think you can install root certificates on iOS using .mobileconfig profiles, so this issue should be possible to fix.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jrochkind1 5y ago

This was an eye-opener for me too. As a web dev, I had been thinking "there's no reason anyone would be running anything but the latest version of Chrome" -- but here's a reason. Should we be trying to support old versions of Chrome? The author thinks so. > This is a problem with the people who make that website. They should be making their website’s code more accessible to legacy devices. I'm not sure how likely that is to happen. Where do we draw the line? Most tools oriented towards helping you do legacy browser support (like caniuse) don't even have UI's oriented toward helping you figure out what version of Chrome is when and where a good line to draw might be. (At what point would the OP author think we could stop transpiling down to ES5? Literally never?) Just cause I'm curious... Version 76 is what his mom's chromebook had. When did that come out? Looks like July 20 2019. So about 2.5 years ago. But this does make me re-think what appropriate browser support policy should be... mostly I just have questions not answers though. The author was so clear that it was the websites fault and they should be supporting this 2.5 year-old Chrome... I'm curious what other HN readers are doing, is anyone testing on or making sure to support this kind of old "evergreen" browsers, and if so how?

jimminy 5y ago
As someone who started doing web development in 2003-2004, I've always aimed for a 5 year support window. This is largely because of how long IE6-IE8 upgrades took for many SMB's and governments to upgrade from in those days. Back then browsers updated closer to 2-4 times a year, with far lower inertia in how drastic the changes would be. You could learn and mostly remember what features were safe for roughly that period. These days, I tend to look at feature release dates and support on CanIUse or MDN, to see if somethings been in broad use for the past 4-5 years.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Thanks for response! So are you looking at Chrome (and Firefox) back to 4-5 years past (via caniuse?), and not using something if they don't support it back that far? (at least ES6 is, generally, in all current browsers (not IE) as of more than 4 years back at this point. But are you delivering ES6 to browsers, or still limiting yourself to ES5?)

tmvnty 5y ago

This was the exact issue with my parent: Chrome wasn't updating because their out-of-dated hardware and I had to tell them switch to Firefox "the red fox on globe icon" to use the internet. This lasted until the day I finally convinced them to buy a new PC.

pdonis 5y ago

Looks like my instinct to avoid Chromebooks like the plague was a good one...