10 ms·

I'm sure it's been said before by many, but I'd have a few extra mm of thickness to get back replaceable ram, ssd, wifi, etc. The post yesterday about moving b

I'm sure it's been said before by many, but I'd have a few extra mm of thickness to get back replaceable ram, ssd, wifi, etc. The post yesterday about moving back to an old Thinkpad has me motivated to do something like that for my next computer. A Thinkpad chassis with an updated mainboad, screen, and battery would make me happy.

ip26 5y ago
On the other hand, socketed parts are prone to corrosion at the contacts in adverse conditions. My old x61 had some issues with the SO-DIMM socket corroding from all the time in my bike bags. Soldered-down ram and an add-on socket has seemed like a nice compromise to me.
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  totally guessing here, but that's not the majority of use cases ;)
- kasabali 5y ago
  Soldered parts are prone to fractures in BGA solder balls which are more annoying and expensive to repair compared to cleaning up sockets and rubbing pads with a pencil eraser one in a while.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    Socketed RAM modules have more solder joints than the alternative. The packages on your socketed RAM are attached to the module the same way they would be attached to the motherboard. BGA has been used across the board since DDR2.
    - kasabali 5y ago
      I don't need to repair memory modules, though. I can toss them away and get a replacement for few dozen bucks. Good luck finding a cheap commodity replacement for the whole motherboard.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Of all of the parts of your laptop to break and leave you without the availability of a replacement, your RAM is the least of your worries. Damage prone parts that are replaceable are already hard enough to find replacements for. And of all the parts on your mainboard to break, your i/o is going to be the likely culprit. And few laptops modularize those.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    Bake your board in the oven (in a pinch a toaster can do) for a quick-n-dirty reflow
yokoprime 5y ago
I have a 10 year old T420S with a new battery. Im _really_ interested in screen replacements as the original screen is pretty weak.
- ab_testing 5y ago
  It is possible to upgrade to IPS display in a T420. This is a starting point. It needs a special controller card and ofcourse an upgraded screen. https://www.curlybrace.com/words/2020/11/24/thinkpad-t420-ips-pls-screen-upgrade/ https://www.curlybrace.com/words/2020/11/24/thinkpad-t420-ip... https://www.amazon.com/1080p-1920X1080-Upgrade-thinkpad-Controller/dp/B07N4Q9YCF https://www.amazon.com/1080p-1920X1080-Upgrade-thinkpad-Cont...
- anotherman554 5y ago
  How did you get a reliable new battery for a 10 year old laptop? Lenovo doesn't appear to make batteries for old laptops, and I've had bad experiences ordering from random sellers on Amazon.com.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    Dunno about Lenovo, but once you get old enough, a laptop battery is just a pretty box for standard cylindrical shells. Carefully shuck the old ones out and solder new ones in and voila.
- okl 5y ago
  Upgrade to a refurbished T450s or T460 and you get a very nice FHD IPS display.
  - flavius29663 5y ago
    but you lose on the keyboard...
    - throwaway2331 5y ago
      W530 with a keyboard mod. IIRC, the cable needs to be modified, because the connectors are different, but I've seen it work.
mlindner 5y ago
With the trend for on-die RAM and the lower latencies that allows, it's not going to be possible to remove the RAM in the future.
- wtallis 5y ago
  Nobody is moving DRAM on-die. Apple puts DRAM on-package, and x86 laptops using LPDDRx solder it on the main board next to the soldered-down CPU/SoC. The advantage of doing so is not latency (which is still dominated by stuff that happens entirely within the DRAM die) but rather that LPDDR allows for lower power draw for the same bandwidth.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    I’d think soldering down has some other benefits: 1) better heat conduction 2) more predictable RF/contact capacitance issues/characteristics
- bentcorner 5y ago
  I think that's a more-or-less acceptable compromise for now. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone add on-board RAM back in to allow for cheaper expansion. Most operating systems support NUMA, this approach seems similar to that idea.
kube-system 5y ago
These machines exist. They’re just not usually stocked at your local big box store because that’s not a mass-market priority. Mass market customers would rather have a machine that is thinner, lighter, cheaper, and with better battery life.
rswail 5y ago
Framework Laptop provides customization and upgradeability which sounds like what you want. https://frame.work https://frame.work
- vaylian 5y ago
  Agreed. I think the disassembly video of the Surface SE is pretty impressive (kudos Microsoft!), but Framework still blows the Surface SE out of the water in terms of internal accessibility and modularity of the laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV2umY3R0vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV2umY3R0vw
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Framework gets us a long way in the right direction; still lacking things some of us need - admittedly a minority: 1. Standardized keyboard. For some reason modern laptops hate Home/End/PgUp/PgDwn buttons; but I use them literally every minute of my typing. Arrow keys too are tiny, up and down look to be sharing the same key - so basically unusable on regular basis. 2. Trackpoint/Nub/Nipple. If you're trying to make a small laptop, rather than crippling keyboard for the sake of massive giant trackpad, Trackpoint is the way to go. Granted, higher learning curve for many, but very rewarding in the end. Again, understanding we are now talking a niche of a niche - "want standard keyboard and trackpoint" subset of "want practical modular laptop"; but that's why old school Thinkpads are still so prized for some.
  - eikenberry 5y ago
    They did give feedback a a while ago that they are looking into the thinkpad style trackpoint/mouse-button interface as a purchasable option in the future.
    - NikolaNovak 5y ago
      Missed that! Awesome sauce, that's incredible to hear :)
  - Goronmon 5y ago
zokier 5y ago
Lenovo P15 series would be example of laptops that have not gone crazy in light and thin direction, so it has m.2 slots for ssds, and sodimms for RAM as you'd expect, all accessible by undoing few screws and lifting the back cover: https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-lenovo-thinkpad-p15v-gen-2-disassembly-and-upgrade-options/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-lenovo-thinkpad-p1... Or some random Dell laptop that seems pretty comparable https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-dell-precision-15-3561-disassembly-and-upgrade-options/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-dell-precision-15-...
- bashinator 5y ago
  Absolutely love my Thinkpad X1 for running linux; it's pretty much the same design but without the awful number pad. The fingerprint scanner even got support recently!
_trampeltier 5y ago
And a bit more ruggedness again. The superlight notebooks don't really if there are other things in the bag.
srikz 5y ago
Hoping more companies like frame.work[1] come up and succeed. They have shown it is possible and the laptop need not be bulky or very expensive and still be repairable. [1]: https://frame.work https://frame.work
- trelane 5y ago
  There are lots of user-serviceable laptops. Just not the mainstream brands.
Const-me 5y ago
To be fair, Microsoft does show how to replace the WiFi module, but I absolutely agree on the rest. Fortunately, Microsoft is not the only company making laptops and filming videos, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxMMjSF4QFw&ab_channel=HPSupport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxMMjSF4QFw&ab_channel=HPSup... The HP video is much less entertaining, much longer, and the narrator is likely a text-to-speech software. However, I think it’s more informative, for instance it shows how to assemble the device back.
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
> I'm sure it's been said before by many, but I'd have a few extra mm of thickness to get back replaceable ram, ssd, wifi, etc. This is the exact opposite of what manufacturers want so I don't think there is any hope of reversing this crazy trend. The vendors copying Apple don't understand that Apple controls their users as they are already hooked to their ecosystem so they have no choice, but people outside of this ecosystem do have a choice and when presented with a thin plate with everything glued and irreplaceable and no useful ports, they will simply look for another solution. Not to mention environmental problems created by this craze.

ip26 5y ago

On the other hand, socketed parts are prone to corrosion at the contacts in adverse conditions. My old x61 had some issues with the SO-DIMM socket corroding from all the time in my bike bags. Soldered-down ram and an add-on socket has seemed like a nice compromise to me.

black_puppydog 5y ago
totally guessing here, but that's not the majority of use cases ;)
kasabali 5y ago
Soldered parts are prone to fractures in BGA solder balls which are more annoying and expensive to repair compared to cleaning up sockets and rubbing pads with a pencil eraser one in a while.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Socketed RAM modules have more solder joints than the alternative. The packages on your socketed RAM are attached to the module the same way they would be attached to the motherboard. BGA has been used across the board since DDR2.
  - kasabali 5y ago
    I don't need to repair memory modules, though. I can toss them away and get a replacement for few dozen bucks. Good luck finding a cheap commodity replacement for the whole motherboard.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Of all of the parts of your laptop to break and leave you without the availability of a replacement, your RAM is the least of your worries. Damage prone parts that are replaceable are already hard enough to find replacements for. And of all the parts on your mainboard to break, your i/o is going to be the likely culprit. And few laptops modularize those.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  Bake your board in the oven (in a pinch a toaster can do) for a quick-n-dirty reflow

yokoprime 5y ago

I have a 10 year old T420S with a new battery. Im _really_ interested in screen replacements as the original screen is pretty weak.

ab_testing 5y ago
It is possible to upgrade to IPS display in a T420. This is a starting point. It needs a special controller card and ofcourse an upgraded screen. https://www.curlybrace.com/words/2020/11/24/thinkpad-t420-ips-pls-screen-upgrade/ https://www.curlybrace.com/words/2020/11/24/thinkpad-t420-ip... https://www.amazon.com/1080p-1920X1080-Upgrade-thinkpad-Controller/dp/B07N4Q9YCF https://www.amazon.com/1080p-1920X1080-Upgrade-thinkpad-Cont...
anotherman554 5y ago
How did you get a reliable new battery for a 10 year old laptop? Lenovo doesn't appear to make batteries for old laptops, and I've had bad experiences ordering from random sellers on Amazon.com.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Dunno about Lenovo, but once you get old enough, a laptop battery is just a pretty box for standard cylindrical shells. Carefully shuck the old ones out and solder new ones in and voila.
okl 5y ago
Upgrade to a refurbished T450s or T460 and you get a very nice FHD IPS display.
- flavius29663 5y ago
  but you lose on the keyboard...
  - throwaway2331 5y ago
    W530 with a keyboard mod. IIRC, the cable needs to be modified, because the connectors are different, but I've seen it work.

mlindner 5y ago

With the trend for on-die RAM and the lower latencies that allows, it's not going to be possible to remove the RAM in the future.

wtallis 5y ago
Nobody is moving DRAM on-die. Apple puts DRAM on-package, and x86 laptops using LPDDRx solder it on the main board next to the soldered-down CPU/SoC. The advantage of doing so is not latency (which is still dominated by stuff that happens entirely within the DRAM die) but rather that LPDDR allows for lower power draw for the same bandwidth.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  I’d think soldering down has some other benefits: 1) better heat conduction 2) more predictable RF/contact capacitance issues/characteristics
bentcorner 5y ago
I think that's a more-or-less acceptable compromise for now. Who knows, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone add on-board RAM back in to allow for cheaper expansion. Most operating systems support NUMA, this approach seems similar to that idea.

kube-system 5y ago

These machines exist. They’re just not usually stocked at your local big box store because that’s not a mass-market priority. Mass market customers would rather have a machine that is thinner, lighter, cheaper, and with better battery life.

rswail 5y ago

Framework Laptop provides customization and upgradeability which sounds like what you want. https://frame.work https://frame.work

vaylian 5y ago
Agreed. I think the disassembly video of the Surface SE is pretty impressive (kudos Microsoft!), but Framework still blows the Surface SE out of the water in terms of internal accessibility and modularity of the laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV2umY3R0vw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV2umY3R0vw
NikolaNovak 5y ago
Framework gets us a long way in the right direction; still lacking things some of us need - admittedly a minority: 1. Standardized keyboard. For some reason modern laptops hate Home/End/PgUp/PgDwn buttons; but I use them literally every minute of my typing. Arrow keys too are tiny, up and down look to be sharing the same key - so basically unusable on regular basis. 2. Trackpoint/Nub/Nipple. If you're trying to make a small laptop, rather than crippling keyboard for the sake of massive giant trackpad, Trackpoint is the way to go. Granted, higher learning curve for many, but very rewarding in the end. Again, understanding we are now talking a niche of a niche - "want standard keyboard and trackpoint" subset of "want practical modular laptop"; but that's why old school Thinkpads are still so prized for some.
- eikenberry 5y ago
  They did give feedback a a while ago that they are looking into the thinkpad style trackpoint/mouse-button interface as a purchasable option in the future.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    Missed that! Awesome sauce, that's incredible to hear :)
- Goronmon 5y ago

zokier 5y ago

Lenovo P15 series would be example of laptops that have not gone crazy in light and thin direction, so it has m.2 slots for ssds, and sodimms for RAM as you'd expect, all accessible by undoing few screws and lifting the back cover: https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-lenovo-thinkpad-p15v-gen-2-disassembly-and-upgrade-options/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-lenovo-thinkpad-p1... Or some random Dell laptop that seems pretty comparable https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-dell-precision-15-3561-disassembly-and-upgrade-options/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/inside-dell-precision-15-...

bashinator 5y ago
Absolutely love my Thinkpad X1 for running linux; it's pretty much the same design but without the awful number pad. The fingerprint scanner even got support recently!

_trampeltier 5y ago

And a bit more ruggedness again. The superlight notebooks don't really if there are other things in the bag.

srikz 5y ago

Hoping more companies like frame.work[1] come up and succeed. They have shown it is possible and the laptop need not be bulky or very expensive and still be repairable. [1]: https://frame.work https://frame.work

trelane 5y ago
There are lots of user-serviceable laptops. Just not the mainstream brands.

Const-me 5y ago

To be fair, Microsoft does show how to replace the WiFi module, but I absolutely agree on the rest. Fortunately, Microsoft is not the only company making laptops and filming videos, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxMMjSF4QFw&ab_channel=HPSupport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxMMjSF4QFw&ab_channel=HPSup... The HP video is much less entertaining, much longer, and the narrator is likely a text-to-speech software. However, I think it’s more informative, for instance it shows how to assemble the device back.

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

> I'm sure it's been said before by many, but I'd have a few extra mm of thickness to get back replaceable ram, ssd, wifi, etc. This is the exact opposite of what manufacturers want so I don't think there is any hope of reversing this crazy trend. The vendors copying Apple don't understand that Apple controls their users as they are already hooked to their ecosystem so they have no choice, but people outside of this ecosystem do have a choice and when presented with a thin plate with everything glued and irreplaceable and no useful ports, they will simply look for another solution. Not to mention environmental problems created by this craze.